martin wrote:I don't have a handle on this out side of PnR and spread shooters around the perimeter. Also, more emphasis on 3-point shooting because of advanced stats/analysis.

What is the definition of a modern offense? How can I identify it and see it happening on the court or through looking at team stats?

Who uses it and who is successful because of it? I already know about GSW, who else?

How is it different than other offenses? Princeton, motion, triangle, etc?

How does it relate to defense? i.e. Triangle is set up such that 2 (perimeter) players are at the top or near top of 3 point line so that there is balance after shot goes up.

What is a "modern defense"? There has got to be something that offsets a modern offense. Who is running a modern defense?

I believe when people refer to "modern defense" they are referring to the style Thibodeau came up with when zone defense became "legal".

Neither Modern offense or defense arent catch all phrases however. Modern offense probably started with Dantoni then others like GSW and Golden state tweaked and developed on it. Basically I think of it as a combo of pace (high, "7 seconds or less", the unguardable ness of the PnR, then the addition of shooters who can hit threes because 3 is more than 2 and shots taken inside the key under the basket are hit at a higher rate. Spread PnR will give you one of those options usually if done precisely.

Perhaps im not making sense or mostly wrong but this is how I conceptualize it. I'd love to hear someone describe it in a more succinct knowledgable way so I'll be watching this thread.

H1AND1 wrote:

martin wrote:I don't have a handle on this out side of PnR and spread shooters around the perimeter. Also, more emphasis on 3-point shooting because of advanced stats/analysis.

What is the definition of a modern offense? How can I identify it and see it happening on the court or through looking at team stats?

Who uses it and who is successful because of it? I already know about GSW, who else?

How is it different than other offenses? Princeton, motion, triangle, etc?

How does it relate to defense? i.e. Triangle is set up such that 2 (perimeter) players are at the top or near top of 3 point line so that there is balance after shot goes up.

What is a "modern defense"? There has got to be something that offsets a modern offense. Who is running a modern defense?

I believe when people refer to "modern defense" they are referring to the style Thibodeau came up with when zone defense became "legal".

Neither Modern offense or defense arent catch all phrases however. Modern offense probably started with Dantoni then others like GSW and Golden state tweaked and developed on it. Basically I think of it as a combo of pace (high, "7 seconds or less", the unguardable ness of the PnR, then the addition of shooters who can hit threes because 3 is more than 2 and shots taken inside the key under the basket are hit at a higher rate. Spread PnR will give you one of those options usually if done precisely.

Perhaps im not making sense or mostly wrong but this is how I conceptualize it. I'd love to hear someone describe it in a more succinct knowledgable way so I'll be watching this thread.

Thibs is NOT the guy and actually has been trying to learn from GS to get ready for his next gig. He admitted that he was lacking here.

There is a lot to it but the emphasis is the spread everyone out beyond the arc, initiate with PnR, force a double so one of the many wings are open, kick it out to the open man for 3, if he has it he shoots, if not, he drives and again attempts to draw help leaving a wing open, rinse and repeat until there is either an open shot at the rim or an open 3.

Very little posting and big men clogging mid range areas.

Midrange shots should not be taken unless there is an extenuating circumstance or you are Tim Duncan.

SSOL is just a speedier way to implement the modern offense and get into the sets (high level).

ChuckBuck wrote:

mreinman wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

martin wrote:I don't have a handle on this out side of PnR and spread shooters around the perimeter. Also, more emphasis on 3-point shooting because of advanced stats/analysis.

What is the definition of a modern offense? How can I identify it and see it happening on the court or through looking at team stats?

Who uses it and who is successful because of it? I already know about GSW, who else?

How is it different than other offenses? Princeton, motion, triangle, etc?

How does it relate to defense? i.e. Triangle is set up such that 2 (perimeter) players are at the top or near top of 3 point line so that there is balance after shot goes up.

What is a "modern defense"? There has got to be something that offsets a modern offense. Who is running a modern defense?

I believe when people refer to "modern defense" they are referring to the style Thibodeau came up with when zone defense became "legal".

Neither Modern offense or defense arent catch all phrases however. Modern offense probably started with Dantoni then others like GSW and Golden state tweaked and developed on it. Basically I think of it as a combo of pace (high, "7 seconds or less", the unguardable ness of the PnR, then the addition of shooters who can hit threes because 3 is more than 2 and shots taken inside the key under the basket are hit at a higher rate. Spread PnR will give you one of those options usually if done precisely.

Perhaps im not making sense or mostly wrong but this is how I conceptualize it. I'd love to hear someone describe it in a more succinct knowledgable way so I'll be watching this thread.

Thibs is NOT the guy and actually has been trying to learn from GS to get ready for his next gig. He admitted that he was lacking here.

Yup, he's been boning up on his offense and roster management during his GS consultation earlier this month. His only 2 minor weaknesses, hopefully Phil lays off the peyote this off season and hires him like he absolutely should.

The Spurs offense is a little different this year than it was 3yrs ago

mreinman wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

mreinman wrote:Houston has been quite successful with it over the last few years. Atlanta, Toronto, Now Portland as well, Charlotte.

There is a lot to it but the emphasis is the spread everyone out beyond the arc, initiate with PnR, force a double so one of the many wings are open, kick it out to the open man for 3, if he has it he shoots, if not, he drives and again attempts to draw help leaving a wing open, rinse and repeat until there is either an open shot at the rim or an open 3.

Very little posting and big men clogging mid range areas.

Midrange shots should not be taken unless there is an extenuating circumstance or you are Tim Duncan.

SSOL is just a speedier way to implement the modern offense and get into the sets (high level).

And one of basic tenets of the modern offense is to RUN at will. Run off misses, run off makes, RUN RUN RUN. DO NOT WALK IT UP. If you can get an easy bucket in transition, do it before the defense is set.

Knicks haven't run a fast break since Spree in the 90s.

of course run run run but also, the players that you need/look for to run a modern offense are stallions. Those guys can play much faster than old school oafs.

Yea it greatly helps your cause to run a modern offense when your point guard is under the age of 30, for sure.

The Knicks are the only team in the league that prefers their point guards slow, old, and with one foot out the door:

VCoug wrote:Modern NBA offense is about taking more good shots, shots at the rim because they're high-percentage and 3-pointer because they're worth an extra point, and taking fewer bad shots, mid- and long-range 2s because they're made at about the same rate as 3s. How you get those shots is not that important but most of the best offenses rely heavily on the pick and roll. Basically, it's D'Antoni 7SOL except pace isn't that important.

This seems right to me.

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

mreinman wrote:Houston has been quite successful with it over the last few years. Atlanta, Toronto, Now Portland as well, Charlotte.

There is a lot to it but the emphasis is the spread everyone out beyond the arc, initiate with PnR, force a double so one of the many wings are open, kick it out to the open man for 3, if he has it he shoots, if not, he drives and again attempts to draw help leaving a wing open, rinse and repeat until there is either an open shot at the rim or an open 3.

Very little posting and big men clogging mid range areas.

Midrange shots should not be taken unless there is an extenuating circumstance or you are Tim Duncan.

SSOL is just a speedier way to implement the modern offense and get into the sets (high level).

And one of basic tenets of the modern offense is to RUN at will. Run off misses, run off makes, RUN RUN RUN. DO NOT WALK IT UP. If you can get an easy bucket in transition, do it before the defense is set.

Outside of GSW which elite teams run run run such that it effects their pace? I don't see them; the teams that have won championship over the past 7 years don't seem to have high pace outside of GSW.

If you have an ultra efficient offense like San Antonio, then you can afford to walk it up from time to time. GS and OKC are both near the tops of RUN RUN RUNNING each year. Cleveland has Lebron so he accounts probably for 1000% of their fast break points.

OH LOOKEE THERE!!! Look at who's at the bottom.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/fastbreak-points-per-game?date=2016-03-11