As I mentioned in a post before--Id give them Grant and whatever choice of two other players--perhaps a threeway??? but Darren Collison makes the MOST sense at our trade deadline--he would give the most bang for the buck AND he does not disrupt free agency as he is signed.

C Lopez
PF Porzingis
SF Anthony
SG Batum or Bazemore
PG Collison

That's how you improve right there.

I think they'd hold onto him in case Rondo leaves this summer as a FA. Rondo is going to be looking for a max. Probably some team will give it to him...

Why would Sacramento downgrade from Collison to Grant? They have Collison locked in on a great contract for next season. He's a capable backup and Sacramento is trying to make a playoffs push. They're deluded, but hey we're trying to make a deluded playoffs push over here, too.

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I would be on board to acquire Collison - I just don't buy that we have anything Sacramento wants. Or that Sacramento even knows what it wants.

I think they'd hold onto him in case Rondo leaves this summer as a FA. Rondo is going to be looking for a max. Probably some team will give it to him...

Why would Sacramento downgrade from Collison to Grant? They have Collison locked in on a great contract for next season. He's a capable backup and Sacramento is trying to make a playoffs push. They're deluded, but hey we're trying to make a deluded playoffs push over here, too.

We have no clue what their scouting dept thinks of Grant. If we had to take back some more salary or make it into a 3 way deal--Id have to think a team with 20 wins like Sacremento will atleast come to the table and listen. If we started throwing guys like Seraphin Lance thomas and Grant out--whichever way they may go--if that could be enough to persuade them to give up their back up--you have to atleast try. Id be aggressive Id give up anyone but KP Lopez and CA for Collison-3 way 4 way etc.. Affalo D Williams-- and grant whatever it takes--we need a PG.

I wonder if Sacto would want Afflalo?

Knicks1969 wrote:Collison and McLemore would do. I would even consider trading Aflalo in a scenario to make that happen.

Jose, Aflalo, and Lance????????

Were not getting Mclemore--thats their young guy--we need a PG and Id be aggressive--overpay so to speak if its possible. I think it would be good for us in a variety of ways if we got him with that extra years of salary guaranteed. Id have to think Grant would be gone--but thats fine. Atleast try.

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:Mike Conley is an excellent defensive player. Collison is a poor defender. He is not as good as Conley or even close man, and I am not much of a Conley fan or a big supporter of bringing him here for the max. Collison is a speed guy, the rest of this team minus DWill is a halfcourt group. I am not sure how or why you see him as a great fit.

fishmike--Colliosn is one of the better defenders from the PG position in the entire nBA--it's easy to see you have no clue what you are talking about nor have you watched him play. EVERY team he played for always touts his defense

What would he bring to this team--much needed defense from the 1 guard with the ability top hound full court
A guy who can shoot three's at an effective clip
A guy who can move the ball end to end as fast as anyone in the league and finish at the hoop
A guy who is a solid passer and doesnt turn the ball over.

I mean for 5mm hes perfect--hes BETTER than Conley easily for the money--not close.
Go back to sleep

when you say better defenders in the NBA... is that like Brook Lopez is the best center in the NBA?

You are right... I have not watched him one bit this year. I liked him a lot when he stepped in for Chris Paul and had that nice breakout year. However what I remember from him is more like this:

http://www.clipsnation.com/2014/6/5/5519746/2013-2014-clippers-exit-interviews-darren-collison

Collison's main weakness, which we already knew of going into the season, has always been his lack of size and strength on the defensive end. For a small player, he's actually got no trouble scoring over the giants of the NBA, but defensively he's good for one thing: the aforementioned peskiness on the perimeter and in the lane. Sure, he can gamble and still recover, he gambles a bit too much

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2013/4/11/4212656/in-their-defense-the-problematic-dallas-defenders

Darren Collison - He is actually my vote for worst defensive player for Dallas. Collison may seem like a decent defender just because he manages to get a good number of steals, but if you focus on his defense for stretches of games you'll see why I feel this way

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/01/05/darren-collison-who-went-from-hot-shot-rookie-to-journeyman-may-have-found-niche-with-kings/

The Pacers sold low on Collison, trading him to the Mavericks. Dallas initially started Collison, but he lost the role to Dominique Jones, then Derek Fisher, then Mike James after Rick Carlisle expressed frustration with Collison’s defense. By the time the 2012-13 season ended, the Mavericks didn’t even extend Collison a qualifying offer.

So Briggs... do you *really* know and watch this player? Or did you see him have one great stretch or great game and decide that's all you needed to see to anoint him your next "Im going to start a new thread everyday for this player"

Honest question.

Being pesky doesn't make up when a small guard gets destroyed in crunch time.

But don't take my word for it. Look at the actual stats...
The only guy on the Kings with a WORSE defensive rating on the Kings is Marco Belinelli. So while your eyes say "great defender" the REALITY is no player (minus Marco Belinelli) has more of a negative impact on that team's D than Collison.

Now to be fair other things can impact those #s, but if you can show me a stat that shows the defense is better when DC is on the floor please do.. I cant find anything.

He's a really fast smurf. Some nights he's going to change games and cause fits. Nate Robinson did also. Most night he's just a fast smurf.

Now can I go back to bed?

He could the much needed shot in the arm that we need, until we can get a chance to add Westbrook l::))

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:Mike Conley is an excellent defensive player. Collison is a poor defender. He is not as good as Conley or even close man, and I am not much of a Conley fan or a big supporter of bringing him here for the max. Collison is a speed guy, the rest of this team minus DWill is a halfcourt group. I am not sure how or why you see him as a great fit.

fishmike--Colliosn is one of the better defenders from the PG position in the entire nBA--it's easy to see you have no clue what you are talking about nor have you watched him play. EVERY team he played for always touts his defense

What would he bring to this team--much needed defense from the 1 guard with the ability top hound full court
A guy who can shoot three's at an effective clip
A guy who can move the ball end to end as fast as anyone in the league and finish at the hoop
A guy who is a solid passer and doesnt turn the ball over.

I mean for 5mm hes perfect--hes BETTER than Conley easily for the money--not close.
Go back to sleep

when you say better defenders in the NBA... is that like Brook Lopez is the best center in the NBA?

You are right... I have not watched him one bit this year. I liked him a lot when he stepped in for Chris Paul and had that nice breakout year. However what I remember from him is more like this:

http://www.clipsnation.com/2014/6/5/5519746/2013-2014-clippers-exit-interviews-darren-collison

Collison's main weakness, which we already knew of going into the season, has always been his lack of size and strength on the defensive end. For a small player, he's actually got no trouble scoring over the giants of the NBA, but defensively he's good for one thing: the aforementioned peskiness on the perimeter and in the lane. Sure, he can gamble and still recover, he gambles a bit too much

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2013/4/11/4212656/in-their-defense-the-problematic-dallas-defenders

Darren Collison - He is actually my vote for worst defensive player for Dallas. Collison may seem like a decent defender just because he manages to get a good number of steals, but if you focus on his defense for stretches of games you'll see why I feel this way

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/01/05/darren-collison-who-went-from-hot-shot-rookie-to-journeyman-may-have-found-niche-with-kings/

The Pacers sold low on Collison, trading him to the Mavericks. Dallas initially started Collison, but he lost the role to Dominique Jones, then Derek Fisher, then Mike James after Rick Carlisle expressed frustration with Collison’s defense. By the time the 2012-13 season ended, the Mavericks didn’t even extend Collison a qualifying offer.

So Briggs... do you *really* know and watch this player? Or did you see him have one great stretch or great game and decide that's all you needed to see to anoint him your next "Im going to start a new thread everyday for this player"

Honest question.

Being pesky doesn't make up when a small guard gets destroyed in crunch time.

But don't take my word for it. Look at the actual stats...
The only guy on the Kings with a WORSE defensive rating on the Kings is Marco Belinelli. So while your eyes say "great defender" the REALITY is no player (minus Marco Belinelli) has more of a negative impact on that team's D than Collison.

Now to be fair other things can impact those #s, but if you can show me a stat that shows the defense is better when DC is on the floor please do.. I cant find anything.

He's a really fast smurf. Some nights he's going to change games and cause fits. Nate Robinson did also. Most night he's just a fast smurf.

Now can I go back to bed?

Hes a TREMENDOUS upgrade in almost every area of need we currently have with his team. Hes no smurf hes atleast 6 feet--comparing him to nate is probably 5 inches off.

DJMUSIC wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Sacremento needs change. Collison is probably the best PG in the NBA for cash to production. Always under rated but always over-performs. He would change the dynamic of the team by himself. His 5mm contract next year ALLOWS us to look for a Batum or a Derozan without having to beg another PG to come here for 3X the money??? Collison is just as good as Conley or BETTER!! but for 1/3 the price.

As I mentioned in a post before--Id give them Grant and whatever choice of two other players--perhaps a threeway??? but Darren Collison makes the MOST sense at our trade deadline--he would give the most bang for the buck AND he does not disrupt free agency as he is signed.

Well
I had D.Collison in the past on some NBA Fantasy hoop leagues I do & run.

For the Knicks ?

Let me tell you about this, (first of all forget ! Grant in deal)NO

Collison been in NBA long enough to take his game to another level.
Has he gone up ? since his early NBA days of course but he's one of them "STUCK" point guards
whom I will not give any credit for being a game changer at the vital PG position.

If he came to Knicks cheap cheap? why not

However let me use simple example of my point, Celtics I.Thomas whom I don't care much for either
has a STEALTH Year and talked about to point of making NBA Allstar team, well deservingly !

Thomas is BETTER than Collison.
We would not trade chips(knicks drafts) for Thomas correct ?

Why labor about Collision he ain't the quick answer NOR quik fix

HE is a nice G/PG combo but lets not get carried away here. The Best of Darren Collision we've seen on those
Good Pacer, OKC Thunder teams..

Collision need not be a priority
Knicks need a 1st rate Top notch PG or project where PG skillsets are so high
that will change the Knickerbocker fortunes.

Collision will NOT do that, much less I feel Collision could care less for $$ playing in NYC
Not everyone can play in this town.
*All just my minor DJ opinion, respectively forum...

Furthermore
Collision isn't stopping, CP3, Steph, or any of the lead guards
of course you need a nice PG whom defends..and pressures

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:Mike Conley is an excellent defensive player. Collison is a poor defender. He is not as good as Conley or even close man, and I am not much of a Conley fan or a big supporter of bringing him here for the max. Collison is a speed guy, the rest of this team minus DWill is a halfcourt group. I am not sure how or why you see him as a great fit.

fishmike--Colliosn is one of the better defenders from the PG position in the entire nBA--it's easy to see you have no clue what you are talking about nor have you watched him play. EVERY team he played for always touts his defense

What would he bring to this team--much needed defense from the 1 guard with the ability top hound full court
A guy who can shoot three's at an effective clip
A guy who can move the ball end to end as fast as anyone in the league and finish at the hoop
A guy who is a solid passer and doesnt turn the ball over.

I mean for 5mm hes perfect--hes BETTER than Conley easily for the money--not close.
Go back to sleep