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We just can't win with out melo...SMDH
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knicks1248
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1/27/2016  9:05 AM
Thats sad, and I'm not taking anything away from melo, because i never was against him. Whats sad is that the supporting cast isn't as good as we would like to assume or, fisher is so reliant on melo to make him look remotely respectable.

AA is a nice pick up for the price, but he was shooting pretty bad for most of the night, and KP should have taken the last shot in regulation.

Calderon is one of our best shooters and passers, robin lopez is our best screener, and they actual won a game in the final seconds just a week ago. Yet both were on the bench and you draw up a AA ISO..wow

Ask any coach on the planet, and they will tell you, the last 5 minutes in a close game is where they earn their bread. Fisher has got to learn how and when to use calderone, grant, and Lopez, It is definitely costing us games.

We should not be 0-5 with out melo, or that's basically saying we would probably win 20 games, similar to last season. Which makes phil look like he didn't do much of nothing.

The bulls won 50+ games without jordan

ES
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Bonn1997
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1/27/2016  9:10 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/27/2016  9:11 AM
Not many teams (especially .500 teams) will win when you remove a third of their payroll. That's just not realistic. I'm impressed by how close they kept it yesterday.
gunsnewing
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1/27/2016  9:51 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:Not many teams (especially .500 teams) will win when you remove a third of their payroll. That's just not realistic. I'm impressed by how close they kept it yesterday.

I'm not worried about that. The cap is increasing only for our Knicks
fishmike
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1/27/2016  9:53 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:Not many teams (especially .500 teams) will win when you remove a third of their payroll. That's just not realistic. I'm impressed by how close they kept it yesterday.
yea this... I mean this was a 17 win team last year. We added some really good parts, but this is still very much a work in progress. I mean if you roadmap this out its like this:
year 1: tank and purge and draft
year 2: build the roster, establish style of play, hopefully establish a core
year 3: next level, advance in playoffs, challenge for division, etc...

I mean for year 2 we are looking pretty good. We compete every night. If we stay healthy we probably are +500 and make the playoffs and KP/Melo/Rolo are a legit frontcourt to build around. What we dont have is depth. We have a lot of guys but they are not established so there is a lot of up and down. Gallo hasnt had a game like that in a month.

Patience. I hear you... we get a taste of winning and some quality wins as well so people want more but the progress is there.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
knicks1248
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1/27/2016  9:54 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:Not many teams (especially .500 teams) will win when you remove a third of their payroll. That's just not realistic. I'm impressed by how close they kept it yesterday.

Did you just say 1/3 of their payroll, if thats the way you look at it, your sadly mistaken.

ES
Bonn1997
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1/27/2016  9:56 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Not many teams (especially .500 teams) will win when you remove a third of their payroll. That's just not realistic. I'm impressed by how close they kept it yesterday.

Did you just say 1/3 of their payroll, if thats the way you look at it, your sadly mistaken.


OK, 31.6%
knicks1248
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1/27/2016  9:57 AM
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Not many teams (especially .500 teams) will win when you remove a third of their payroll. That's just not realistic. I'm impressed by how close they kept it yesterday.
yea this... I mean this was a 17 win team last year. We added some really good parts, but this is still very much a work in progress. I mean if you roadmap this out its like this:
year 1: tank and purge and draft
year 2: build the roster, establish style of play, hopefully establish a core
year 3: next level, advance in playoffs, challenge for division, etc...

I mean for year 2 we are looking pretty good. We compete every night. If we stay healthy we probably are +500 and make the playoffs and KP/Melo/Rolo are a legit frontcourt to build around. What we dont have is depth. We have a lot of guys but they are not established so there is a lot of up and down. Gallo hasnt had a game like that in a month.

Patience. I hear you... we get a taste of winning and some quality wins as well so people want more but the progress is there.

I agree here, but there are some things that need to be added to the coaching staff, I'm not say getting rid of fisher, but there needs to be a sound logical mind added to that coaching staff, someone who knows more than just the triangle.

ES
BRIGGS
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1/27/2016  10:04 AM
If I could trade Melo for Jae Crowder David Lee Kelly Olynck and Brookyln's 2016 2018 and an additional #1 of our choice I would do it.

We have a star player in the making--if we were able to pull another top 5 pick this year with Crowder and Olynck--we'd be better off long term. CA leg is a ticking time bomb.

RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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1/27/2016  10:11 AM
BRIGGS wrote:If I could trade Melo for Jae Crowder David Lee Kelly Olynck and Brookyln's 2016 2018 and an additional #1 of our choice I would do it.

We have a star player in the making--if we were able to pull another top 5 pick this year with Crowder and Olynck--we'd be better off long term. CA leg is a ticking time bomb.

please... just stop. NY trading Melo to Boston.

"If I could have Jessica Alba over for a 3some I would do it."

Might as well discuss my statement. Its got the same level of reasonability.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TPercy
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1/27/2016  10:23 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/27/2016  10:29 AM
knicks1248 wrote:Thats sad, and I'm not taking anything away from melo, because i never was against him. Whats sad is that the supporting cast isn't as good as we would like to assume or, fisher is so reliant on melo to make him look remotely respectable.

AA is a nice pick up for the price, but he was shooting pretty bad for most of the night, and KP should have taken the last shot in regulation.

Calderon is one of our best shooters and passers, robin lopez is our best screener, and they actual won a game in the final seconds just a week ago. Yet both were on the bench and you draw up a AA ISO..wow

Ask any coach on the planet, and they will tell you, the last 5 minutes in a close game is where they earn their bread. Fisher has got to learn how and when to use calderone, grant, and Lopez, It is definitely costing us games.

We should not be 0-5 with out melo, or that's basically saying we would probably win 20 games, similar to last season. Which makes phil look like he didn't do much of nothing.

The bulls won 50+ games without jordan


Are we the bulls? I don't think you can go from 17 wins to one of the greatest NBA championship teams in just under a year. We just almost beat the 3rd best team in the West that had two superstars w/o Melo. I think it is a testament that we are getting closer and closer each time.
The Future is Bright!
jrodmc
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1/27/2016  10:29 AM
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Not many teams (especially .500 teams) will win when you remove a third of their payroll. That's just not realistic. I'm impressed by how close they kept it yesterday.
yea this... I mean this was a 17 win team last year. We added some really good parts, but this is still very much a work in progress. I mean if you roadmap this out its like this:
year 1: tank and purge and draft
year 2: build the roster, establish style of play, hopefully establish a core
year 3: next level, advance in playoffs, challenge for division, etc...

I mean for year 2 we are looking pretty good. We compete every night. If we stay healthy we probably are +500 and make the playoffs and KP/Melo/Rolo are a legit frontcourt to build around. What we dont have is depth. We have a lot of guys but they are not established so there is a lot of up and down. Gallo hasnt had a game like that in a month.

Patience. I hear you... we get a taste of winning and some quality wins as well so people want more but the progress is there.

I was listening to WFAN after the game last night, and some ahole from Canarsey or someplace was beeyatching out his PMS about "i've been watching the knicks for 15 years and it's so ... just ... bad...so difficult to watch..." It sounded so much like the whining that goes on here incessantly.

Are we even in this fuhucking game last year? OT against the OKC Thunder? Almost winning it at the buzzer in regulation? No, last year it's a 37 point blowout in the third quarter, and Durant and his man Kato are sitting on the bench in the 4th quarter wondering where they're going for dinner for the last 12 minutes.

Progress gentlemen, is about patience.

Bonn, when exactly did playing basketball become an exercise in Monopoly money? So if MelothePayrollDrag is in the game last night, do we score 33% more points? And don't fuhuck around with the point differential, because your $124MM pariah is playing defense this season...
martin
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1/27/2016  10:31 AM
knicks1248 wrote:Thats sad, and I'm not taking anything away from melo, because i never was against him. Whats sad is that the supporting cast isn't as good as we would like to assume or, fisher is so reliant on melo to make him look remotely respectable.

AA is a nice pick up for the price, but he was shooting pretty bad for most of the night, and KP should have taken the last shot in regulation.

Calderon is one of our best shooters and passers, robin lopez is our best screener, and they actual won a game in the final seconds just a week ago. Yet both were on the bench and you draw up a AA ISO..wow

Ask any coach on the planet, and they will tell you, the last 5 minutes in a close game is where they earn their bread. Fisher has got to learn how and when to use calderone, grant, and Lopez, It is definitely costing us games.

We should not be 0-5 with out melo, or that's basically saying we would probably win 20 games, similar to last season. Which makes phil look like he didn't do much of nothing.

The bulls won 50+ games without jordan

man the unrealistic expectations are truly baffling. This was just an incredible game to me, showed me how far the Knicks have come from scratch last season and how far they still need to go all in 1 game.

Let me rephrase the gist of your post: Why can't the Knicks beat the 3rd best team in the league without their own best player? OKC has 2 of the best 5 guys on the planet, a solid all defensive PF/low level all star and a solid supporting cast. Why can't Fisher just out coach players who are afterthoughts for other teams and some barely above D-League'ish guys?

There is no doubt that some of the Knicks played over their collective heads, witness DWill hitting jumpers and LT going off after a long injury break and Grant finally showing up this season with an aggressive stance. But our guys just went head to head with another top level team not named GSW. Knicks make playoffs and they are the 1 team no one wants to play.

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jrodmc
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1/27/2016  10:33 AM
BRIGGS wrote:If I could trade Melo for Jae Crowder David Lee Kelly Olynck and Brookyln's 2016 2018 and an additional #1 of our choice I would do it.

We have a star player in the making--if we were able to pull another top 5 pick this year with Crowder and Olynck--we'd be better off long term. CA leg is a ticking time bomb.

Seriously, Briggs, isn't there some 6'11" Albanian high schooler you should be starting a thread about right now?
TPercy
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1/27/2016  10:36 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/27/2016  10:37 AM
Also the teams that we play w/o Melo are
Houston: 116-111
Cavaliers: 84 to 91
Memphis: 95-103
BKn:104-110
OKC:128-122

All of these teams are playoff teams with 1 or two future HOF on them..They were never going to be easy to begin with. The fact that we held our own and stayed very competitive compared to last year is a sign of vast improvement.

The Future is Bright!
newyorker4ever
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1/27/2016  10:51 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Not many teams (especially .500 teams) will win when you remove a third of their payroll. That's just not realistic. I'm impressed by how close they kept it yesterday.
yea this... I mean this was a 17 win team last year. We added some really good parts, but this is still very much a work in progress. I mean if you roadmap this out its like this:
year 1: tank and purge and draft
year 2: build the roster, establish style of play, hopefully establish a core
year 3: next level, advance in playoffs, challenge for division, etc...

I mean for year 2 we are looking pretty good. We compete every night. If we stay healthy we probably are +500 and make the playoffs and KP/Melo/Rolo are a legit frontcourt to build around. What we dont have is depth. We have a lot of guys but they are not established so there is a lot of up and down. Gallo hasnt had a game like that in a month.

Patience. I hear you... we get a taste of winning and some quality wins as well so people want more but the progress is there.

I agree here, but there are some things that need to be added to the coaching staff, I'm not say getting rid of fisher, but there needs to be a sound logical mind added to that coaching staff, someone who knows more than just the triangle.


So i'm noticing that this thread is just another way to bash Fisher but the Fisher hate by some isn't correct and you can't just blame every loss on him. Players still have to play the game.
newyorker4ever
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1/27/2016  10:52 AM
BRIGGS wrote:If I could trade Melo for Jae Crowder David Lee Kelly Olynck and Brookyln's 2016 2018 and an additional #1 of our choice I would do it.

We have a star player in the making--if we were able to pull another top 5 pick this year with Crowder and Olynck--we'd be better off long term. CA leg is a ticking time bomb.

But as we all know.............Melo isn't getting traded so why another post about trading Melo?? Some people. SMH
Bonn1997
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1/27/2016  10:53 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/27/2016  10:55 AM
jrodmc wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Not many teams (especially .500 teams) will win when you remove a third of their payroll. That's just not realistic. I'm impressed by how close they kept it yesterday.
yea this... I mean this was a 17 win team last year. We added some really good parts, but this is still very much a work in progress. I mean if you roadmap this out its like this:
year 1: tank and purge and draft
year 2: build the roster, establish style of play, hopefully establish a core
year 3: next level, advance in playoffs, challenge for division, etc...

I mean for year 2 we are looking pretty good. We compete every night. If we stay healthy we probably are +500 and make the playoffs and KP/Melo/Rolo are a legit frontcourt to build around. What we dont have is depth. We have a lot of guys but they are not established so there is a lot of up and down. Gallo hasnt had a game like that in a month.

Patience. I hear you... we get a taste of winning and some quality wins as well so people want more but the progress is there.

I was listening to WFAN after the game last night, and some ahole from Canarsey or someplace was beeyatching out his PMS about "i've been watching the knicks for 15 years and it's so ... just ... bad...so difficult to watch..." It sounded so much like the whining that goes on here incessantly.

Are we even in this fuhucking game last year? OT against the OKC Thunder? Almost winning it at the buzzer in regulation? No, last year it's a 37 point blowout in the third quarter, and Durant and his man Kato are sitting on the bench in the 4th quarter wondering where they're going for dinner for the last 12 minutes.

Progress gentlemen, is about patience.

Bonn, when exactly did playing basketball become an exercise in Monopoly money? So if MelothePayrollDrag is in the game last night, do we score 33% more points? And don't fuhuck around with the point differential, because your $124MM pariah is playing defense this season...


when the league implemented a salary cap
I didn't criticize Melo, though, and I actually praised the team. Lighten up.
newyorker4ever
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1/27/2016  10:57 AM
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Thats sad, and I'm not taking anything away from melo, because i never was against him. Whats sad is that the supporting cast isn't as good as we would like to assume or, fisher is so reliant on melo to make him look remotely respectable.

AA is a nice pick up for the price, but he was shooting pretty bad for most of the night, and KP should have taken the last shot in regulation.

Calderon is one of our best shooters and passers, robin lopez is our best screener, and they actual won a game in the final seconds just a week ago. Yet both were on the bench and you draw up a AA ISO..wow

Ask any coach on the planet, and they will tell you, the last 5 minutes in a close game is where they earn their bread. Fisher has got to learn how and when to use calderone, grant, and Lopez, It is definitely costing us games.

We should not be 0-5 with out melo, or that's basically saying we would probably win 20 games, similar to last season. Which makes phil look like he didn't do much of nothing.

The bulls won 50+ games without jordan

man the unrealistic expectations are truly baffling. This was just an incredible game to me, showed me how far the Knicks have come from scratch last season and how far they still need to go all in 1 game.

Let me rephrase the gist of your post: Why can't the Knicks beat the 3rd best team in the league without their own best player? OKC has 2 of the best 5 guys on the planet, a solid all defensive PF/low level all star and a solid supporting cast. Why can't Fisher just out coach players who are afterthoughts for other teams and some barely above D-League'ish guys?

There is no doubt that some of the Knicks played over their collective heads, witness DWill hitting jumpers and LT going off after a long injury break and Grant finally showing up this season with an aggressive stance. But our guys just went head to head with another top level team not named GSW. Knicks make playoffs and they are the 1 team no one wants to play.

It was a great game though wasn't it?? Everyone pitched in for us and did good things. KP started the game hot and then it really just stopped for him besides a play here or there that were big but the way he started i thought he'd absolutely score more than 15 points. Now this is where certain people find a way to blame that on Fisher which is also getting out of hand by those certain people. Great game and fun game to watch.
Bonn1997
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1/27/2016  10:58 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Not many teams (especially .500 teams) will win when you remove a third of their payroll. That's just not realistic. I'm impressed by how close they kept it yesterday.
yea this... I mean this was a 17 win team last year. We added some really good parts, but this is still very much a work in progress. I mean if you roadmap this out its like this:
year 1: tank and purge and draft
year 2: build the roster, establish style of play, hopefully establish a core
year 3: next level, advance in playoffs, challenge for division, etc...

I mean for year 2 we are looking pretty good. We compete every night. If we stay healthy we probably are +500 and make the playoffs and KP/Melo/Rolo are a legit frontcourt to build around. What we dont have is depth. We have a lot of guys but they are not established so there is a lot of up and down. Gallo hasnt had a game like that in a month.

Patience. I hear you... we get a taste of winning and some quality wins as well so people want more but the progress is there.

I was listening to WFAN after the game last night, and some ahole from Canarsey or someplace was beeyatching out his PMS about "i've been watching the knicks for 15 years and it's so ... just ... bad...so difficult to watch..." It sounded so much like the whining that goes on here incessantly.

Are we even in this fuhucking game last year? OT against the OKC Thunder? Almost winning it at the buzzer in regulation? No, last year it's a 37 point blowout in the third quarter, and Durant and his man Kato are sitting on the bench in the 4th quarter wondering where they're going for dinner for the last 12 minutes.

Progress gentlemen, is about patience.

Bonn, when exactly did playing basketball become an exercise in Monopoly money? So if MelothePayrollDrag is in the game last night, do we score 33% more points? And don't fuhuck around with the point differential, because your $124MM pariah is playing defense this season...


when the league implemented a salary cap
I didn't criticize Melo, though, and I actually praised the team. Lighten up.

I mean we put up a $50 mil team against a $100 mil team. No one should have expected us to win.
Gudris
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1/27/2016  11:01 AM
Its time for KP to take over leadership when Melo is out, Team should give him a taste how it is to be Nr1 option. I see no other player in Knicks who can do this besides Melo or KP
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We just can't win with out melo...SMDH
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