And he's still not a good fundamental rebounder and a pretty bad defender. Two things that can certainly improve.

That being said its possible our biggest offseason move is resigning this guy who at 24 may very well be coming into his own.

He is going to be due for a big pay raise and this is a good problem to have. His scoring is excellent and he's clearly working hard on defense and rebounding even though he not very effective in those areas yet.

When he was in for KP during the OT session two thoughts came to mind... 1) we need to get him the ball, because he needs to be scoring to help us on the floor. check. 2) he needs to impact his game with his athleticism. I think that pogo sequence will all the rebounds that ended with an and-1 was exactly that. check.

Unlike many other slasher types who are athletic freaks DWill is a very good shooter as well and is money from the FT line.

I think if he continues to play like this is market value is 4/$50, or about $12mm a year. While its not a new shiney free agent like Conley or Batum that strikes me as pretty good.

Knicks1969 wrote:D Will is doing exactly what I envisioned. Too bad it took the coaching staff this long to note that this dude is a studd and needs more then 15 minutes to be effective

It's tiring because it's so 1-dimensional without the possibility that a lot of other things played into what you are assuming.

But DWill is definitely finding a comfort zone with his role here and that is nice to see. This is the guy we'd hope we'd see based on that pre-season he had.

I think I need to see this sustained for a while before I am willing to invest 4yr $50M in him or something, but it is promising.

I feel like he fills that role on Phil teams like when Toni Kukoc or Lamar Odom came off the bench as the scoring forward who had license to push the ball coast to coast on rebounds. Those guys were more playmakers than DWill is, it'll be interesting to see if he can add that wrinkle.

He's also pretty great insurance if Melo or KP need a night off or are in foul trouble.

crzymdups wrote:I think it might be a good thing for the Knicks to try to offer DWill a similar deal to the one he took this season - a two year deal with a player opt out after one. Give him a raise - maybe to $8-$10M per, but make him keep working to earn that real long-term deal and keep flexibility in place for 2017, as well. I'd try the same tactic with Afflalo. Anyway, I actually trust Phil to handle the cap negotiations well.

But DWill is definitely finding a comfort zone with his role here and that is nice to see. This is the guy we'd hope we'd see based on that pre-season he had.

I think I need to see this sustained for a while before I am willing to invest 4yr $50M in him or something, but it is promising.

I feel like he fills that role on Phil teams like when Toni Kukoc or Lamar Odom came off the bench as the scoring forward who had license to push the ball coast to coast on rebounds. Those guys were more playmakers than DWill is, it'll be interesting to see if he can add that wrinkle.

He's also pretty great insurance if Melo or KP need a night off or are in foul trouble.

i agree with a lot of this. Players learn from the coaches, but also from their fellow players. In Minn. and Sac. who was he learning from? He has room to learn/grow here, which is real exciting, and he fits into this system (and can fit even better with growth) but was misplaced in others

Last night when he fought for all those offensive rebounds and scored on a key possession were great -- everything Bargs wasn't (another high draft pick who we hoped would fulfill potential)

With a wink and a promise we can pay him another day.

Knicks1969, He is playing the way the coach's want him to. That's how you earn the minutes. In turn he is performing. It takes time and is not easy. when you know 2+2 is 4 and don't have to count on your fingers its instinctive knowledge. I learned To play Tennis about 5 years ago and took some lessons. its neat when something your taught, and practice becomes routine and instinctive and the results are there. Its pretty generic, you fail and keep practice it until it just happens!!!!!!

I played basketball growing up and really understand this. You don't let players stay on the court if they are not doing the right things. Knicks1969, I think you look at results as confirmation, you have to look at the activity that leads to the result. If you do the right things the % of success increases. Thus Dwill had to do them first.

The game where Melo passed to a wide open Jose and could have won the game, it should be applauded because the right sequence happened! It was only going to be a 40% chance he hits that shot at best!!!

Knicks won 2 overtime games. In the past they might have been games they lost. They are learning how to win. How? from losing. Then it starts to change where you lose close games, then it starts winning some of those..........

We all measure by results but how you get there is important in the short run.

crzymdups wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I think it might be a good thing for the Knicks to try to offer DWill a similar deal to the one he took this season - a two year deal with a player opt out after one. Give him a raise - maybe to $8-$10M per, but make him keep working to earn that real long-term deal and keep flexibility in place for 2017, as well. I'd try the same tactic with Afflalo. Anyway, I actually trust Phil to handle the cap negotiations well.

But DWill is definitely finding a comfort zone with his role here and that is nice to see. This is the guy we'd hope we'd see based on that pre-season he had.

I think I need to see this sustained for a while before I am willing to invest 4yr $50M in him or something, but it is promising.

I feel like he fills that role on Phil teams like when Toni Kukoc or Lamar Odom came off the bench as the scoring forward who had license to push the ball coast to coast on rebounds. Those guys were more playmakers than DWill is, it'll be interesting to see if he can add that wrinkle.

He's also pretty great insurance if Melo or KP need a night off or are in foul trouble.

i agree with a lot of this. Players learn from the coaches, but also from their fellow players. In Minn. and Sac. who was he learning from? He has room to learn/grow here, which is real exciting, and he fits into this system (and can fit even better with growth) but was misplaced in others

Last night when he fought for all those offensive rebounds and scored on a key possession were great -- everything Bargs wasn't (another high draft pick who we hoped would fulfill potential)

Yeah, you know who else I've seen fight to get a putback rebound like that? Melo. That actually felt like a Melo bully ball putback more than anything. Regarding learning from players - maybe being up close to Melo and seeing his competitive fire and how hard he works is a good thing for him. Melo is definitely the best player DWill's ever played with.

I think DWill, with a structure and a system, a good base of talent and high character guys around him, and a defined role... you see he is starting to blossom a little.

His January stats overall - 12ppg 5rpg 48%fg. If you look at his splits, he's trended up in minutes, points, shooting percentage every month. I bet if we looked across the team, we'd see a lot of guys like that.

I agree that Carmelo also has a lot to do with the development of our kids. I am not discrediting the job our coaches are doing, it is just baffling that they chose not to play a young dude constant minutes as a way to send him a message. I saw nothing from his plays early on that said the dude couldn't play or was not going full speed. However, it is now Water under bridge, because they have finally decided to unleash the dude. Thank God!

crzymdups wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

I agree that Carmelo also has a lot to do with the development of our kids. I am not discrediting the job our coaches are doing, it is just baffling that they chose not to play a young dude constant minutes as a way to send him a message. I saw nothing from his plays early on that said the dude couldn't play or was not going full speed. However, it is now Water under bridge, because they have finally decided to unleash the dude. Thank God!

Look at his progression this season. Does this look like someone who is not being well coached to improve?

DWILL

Nov 6.0ppg 2.2rpg 38%fg

Dec 8.6ppg 2.8rpg 46%fg

Jan 12.0ppg 5.1rpg 48%fg

Why don't you also post the minutes he was allowed to play to garner the production you are showing?

Knicks1969 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:

I agree that Carmelo also has a lot to do with the development of our kids. I am not discrediting the job our coaches are doing, it is just baffling that they chose not to play a young dude constant minutes as a way to send him a message. I saw nothing from his plays early on that said the dude couldn't play or was not going full speed. However, it is now Water under bridge, because they have finally decided to unleash the dude. Thank God!

Look at his progression this season. Does this look like someone who is not being well coached to improve?

DWILL

Nov 6.0ppg 2.2rpg 38%fg

Dec 8.6ppg 2.8rpg 46%fg

Jan 12.0ppg 5.1rpg 48%fg

Why don't you also post the minutes he was allowed to play to garner the production you are showing?

It's a chicken - egg thing, man. The minutes have gone up as he's played better.

I'm sorry you're too stubborn to give Fisher credit despite the fact that Melo, DWill, Afflalo, Rolo, Lance Thomas, etc are all playing some of the best basketball of their career. Does he get credit for helping to develop Langston Galloway from the scrap pile into a functional rotation guy.

DWill's minutes have gone up as he's played better - on defense and rebounding and taken better shots, too. His rebound RATE, separate from minutes - has gone up. He's playing better, so he's earned more minutes. IF he was playing so great and just needed more minutes, why was he shooting 38% in November? If he only needed more minutes his shooting percentages would stay the same. He's playing better because he's more comfortable in the system and he's improved some major problem areas from the beginning of the season.

fishmike wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

fishmike wrote:17 ppg, 6rebs, 52% FGs

And he's still not a good fundamental rebounder and a pretty bad defender. Two things that can certainly improve.

That being said its possible our biggest offseason move is resigning this guy who at 24 may very well be coming into his own.

He is going to be due for a big pay raise and this is a good problem to have. His scoring is excellent and he's clearly working hard on defense and rebounding even though he not very effective in those areas yet.

When he was in for KP during the OT session two thoughts came to mind... 1) we need to get him the ball, because he needs to be scoring to help us on the floor. check. 2) he needs to impact his game with his athleticism. I think that pogo sequence will all the rebounds that ended with an and-1 was exactly that. check.

Unlike many other slasher types who are athletic freaks DWill is a very good shooter as well and is money from the FT line.

I think if he continues to play like this is market value is 4/$50, or about $12mm a year. While its not a new shiney free agent like Conley or Batum that strikes me as pretty good.

No way that Knicks should risk those $ on a player who still plays in spurts and is fundamentally flawed. 3/$18 would be as far as I would go given what is known and seen up to this point and I even have a hard time with that raise given how uncertain any future projections are

DWill has the best WS/48 on the Knicks. He is very important to this team and his play gets better every month (see crzy's #s he posted). $6mm a year isnt getting it done. You prefer to let him walk than resign him? Who are you saving that money for?
Is your concern he will regress?

Look at the title of the thread " Dwill last five games". How about last five years? Previous teams have seen this act before only to be dissapointed . Erratic talent, still cant shoot threes, defend or rebound much. He isnt a starter but a bench player, very good at times, very mediocre at times. Throw in his questionable decisions on and off the court and you have someone who should not be given any large guarantees in years or money.

BigRedDog wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloanyk wrote:

fishmike wrote:17 ppg, 6rebs, 52% FGs

And he's still not a good fundamental rebounder and a pretty bad defender. Two things that can certainly improve.

That being said its possible our biggest offseason move is resigning this guy who at 24 may very well be coming into his own.

He is going to be due for a big pay raise and this is a good problem to have. His scoring is excellent and he's clearly working hard on defense and rebounding even though he not very effective in those areas yet.

When he was in for KP during the OT session two thoughts came to mind... 1) we need to get him the ball, because he needs to be scoring to help us on the floor. check. 2) he needs to impact his game with his athleticism. I think that pogo sequence will all the rebounds that ended with an and-1 was exactly that. check.

Unlike many other slasher types who are athletic freaks DWill is a very good shooter as well and is money from the FT line.

I think if he continues to play like this is market value is 4/$50, or about $12mm a year. While its not a new shiney free agent like Conley or Batum that strikes me as pretty good.

No way that Knicks should risk those $ on a player who still plays in spurts and is fundamentally flawed. 3/$18 would be as far as I would go given what is known and seen up to this point and I even have a hard time with that raise given how uncertain any future projections are

DWill has the best WS/48 on the Knicks. He is very important to this team and his play gets better every month (see crzy's #s he posted). $6mm a year isnt getting it done. You prefer to let him walk than resign him? Who are you saving that money for?
Is your concern he will regress?

Look at the title of the thread " Dwill last five games". How about last five years? Previous teams have seen this act before only to be dissapointed . Erratic talent, still cant shoot threes, defend or rebound much. He isnt a starter but a bench player, very good at times, very mediocre at times. Throw in his questionable decisions on and off the court and you have someone who should not be given any large guarantees in years or money.

Actually he was a very good 3 pt shooter in college, I see him trying harder on defense, and except for 1 questionable off court decision what are the other bad off court decisions? I thought he was a good pickup at the time and watching him play I think we definitely need to resign him. Great athlete and only getting better.

That's a surprise to me. His outside shot is, well, shot. Would love for him to go to the school of Lance Thomas over the summer.