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Gallo and Lance earning big paydays for next year so do we...........
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newyorker4ever
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1/15/2016  11:51 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/15/2016  11:53 AM
So i've been thinking about what we should do with a few of our guys that we have a good chance of losing next year cause they're earning themselves bigger paydays that we might not be able to give them if Phil is wanting to add a max guy next year. These guys are L.Galloway, L.Thomas, D.Williams and A.Afflalo. So the problem is that we're starting to look like a team that can and will challenge for a playoff spot but even if we make the playoffs we'll most likely lose in the first round cause we'll pull either Cleveland or whoever pulls the #2 seed in the east, so because of that is it worth it to keep this team that we have now and just be happy with making the playoffs or do we trade one or two of the guys that Phil has to have some kind of an idea of what it will cost to re-sign them and if we'll be able to afford signing them if he's planning on signing a max guy next year? So is it worth keeping them just to make the playoffs and go home after the first round which i know isn't a guarantee but actually is a guarantee or do we trade them for either draft pick or young players or both and keep building the team for the future?? I know people don't even want to think about it and neither do i but think what D.Williams or L.Thomas could get us in a trade from a team looking to make a championship run?? Anyone that's been paying attention knows that i've been the biggest fan on here of Lance and i love what DW has been giving us on the offensive end but i also know that this team is not the team that we're gonna win a championship with and that Phil isn't done with his rebuilding plan.
So do we put D.Williams, L.Thomas, L.Galloway and A.Afflalo's name on the trade block?? I understand that everyone besides KP and Melo should be on the block but this is for those four names because they either have an opt out or are a free agent after this year.
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newyorker4ever
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1/15/2016  11:52 AM
Here's an article about some players that are earning themselves bigger paydays next year and Gallo and Lance are in it.

http://b.bm324.com/t/l?ssid=10573&subscriber_id=bqfkvfrvyaslxvuhknxlowtgvfstbpj&delivery_id=bwqnbreiifqkwmohbwbsjekzljosbji&td=ZRfjMdX4KPct5PS5E3a2XAlcN_aeKBDnf7lrGFt6SPeqHoy-orzpPkwd-KLYVYPJ_rKYYRKbo6MOtHRfeDWjStK0L6ul2GUD96KxIl3YpvN_kZoZrO-hPEy1ibj8eAx84z8c9aaVBlVdYMfZD22-82f4oWZE-iH1T-_3tA5vqf2MsJ2fGCMfc_G4uL7YUGHjvbwcNK42gLqGgGDXoH7_TxMsY07PklWprTBt4H9HQUzKT0FHLKA6-4TL-7UeAcSW7zYaYKGZ7JFnk
Knixkik
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1/15/2016  12:18 PM
You keep the group in place. We can resign them all and still have cap space. If and when we find a top free agent who fits perfectly and we have to sacrifice one of these guys to do it, we make the decision then. But at the very least, we stay with what we have and focus on internal development, which there should be plenty of with this group. And fill holes as we go.
fishmike
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1/15/2016  12:42 PM
Galloway's value is not high right now. If the season ended today his best offer would probably be a KOQ type contract... $4mm a year for 3-4 years give or take. In 30 games through Nov-Dec he shot like 37% from the field and was not a very good player. Inconsistent would be putting it nicely.

Lance on the other hand is a very nice asset worth keeping. Not saying Im giving up on LG, plenty to like there, just that his poor play has hurt his value. When he started the season he was poised for a breakout. He stopped hitting 3s and it seems his confidence really took a hit. Hopefully he plays through it

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
mreinman
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1/15/2016  12:50 PM
Gallo has really gone south since he got paid by briggs 10 million per
so here is what phil is thinking ....
Knicks1969
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1/15/2016  12:59 PM
We have to retain: Lance, DWilliams, and Aflalo. As for Gallo, I like the dude, but we can afford to go without him. Not big enough to guard SGs; he is just a combo guard/specialist.
Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
WaltLongmire
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1/15/2016  1:03 PM
Gallo has really been up and down this year...maybe his new wife is wearing him down in another form of ball playing?

Thought I would see more consistency in his outside shot this year...seemed to be the case early one, but he's been inconsistent from the 3, to say the least.

Keep him around on the cheap...don't think any teams would offer big $$ for him at this point.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
Knickoftime
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1/15/2016  1:07 PM
General reminder we're only half way through.

Galloway has the same March as he did November, things will look very different.

Thomas has a poorer second half things will look very different.

Same with Afflalo and Williams.

Things can, and often do, change on a dime.
newyorker4ever
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1/15/2016  1:10 PM
fishmike wrote:Galloway's value is not high right now. If the season ended today his best offer would probably be a KOQ type contract... $4mm a year for 3-4 years give or take. In 30 games through Nov-Dec he shot like 37% from the field and was not a very good player. Inconsistent would be putting it nicely.

Lance on the other hand is a very nice asset worth keeping. Not saying Im giving up on LG, plenty to like there, just that his poor play has hurt his value. When he started the season he was poised for a breakout. He stopped hitting 3s and it seems his confidence really took a hit. Hopefully he plays through it


Well this is all great stuff but it's stuff we already know and you didn't even answer the question of this thread??
newyorker4ever
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1/15/2016  1:13 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:We have to retain: Lance, DWilliams, and Aflalo. As for Gallo, I like the dude, but we can afford to go without him. Not big enough to guard SGs; he is just a combo guard/specialist.

Ok so nobody is even answering the question here. We all love Lance, DW, AA and Gallo and would love to re-sign them but that cannot be done of Phil is planning on signing a M.Conley or a N.Batum or a K.Durant or anyone that will get a max or even close to a max contract so are our guys worth keeping to give up getting a max guy which will be the case if we re-sign them???????
WaltLongmire
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1/15/2016  1:15 PM
Knickoftime wrote:General reminder we're only half way through.

Galloway has the same March as he did November, things will look very different.

Thomas has a poorer second half things will look very different.

Same with Afflalo and Williams.

Things can, and often do, change on a dime.


Yup...

...there are some, though, who seem to turn on a dime, game by game, with their threads.

Drives me crazy. Have to stick to analyzing trends and larger groupings of games...the one game, what have you done for me now, re-analysis threads seem to be popular, though- more in line with a society/fans who are consumed with instant gratification/annoyance and reaching conclusions based on limited evidence.

Crazy...and foolish.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
nyknickzingis
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1/15/2016  1:15 PM
Keeping the bench players outside of Derrick Williams is not a big incentive for me. If they can return at a reasonable deal that would be solid. But realize Fisher is riding the starters big time - because the bench has not shown to be that good.

Lance Thomas and Galloway are guys you want to pay 3-4 M to, to do the job they are doing. You don't want to pay them more than that. If you're going to invest more than that in bench players, there are more talented players available in free agency.

Our objective should be to bring back Lopez, Porzingis, Melo and Williams - as that's our major strength of the team. We're incredibly tough to match up with and control up front. We're one of the best front court teams in the league.

In the backcourt, we've got Calderon and Grant on contract for next year. That gives us 6 players I think we'll likely see return. Grant is even big enough to play some 2 for us. We've got more than enough capspace that if Afflalo, Thomas, Galloway walk in free agency that we can go out and sign even better players. I would like to keep Afflalo, but the price needs to be within his current salary range.

I think the guy we lose is Lance Thomas, and that's unfortunately fine with me. I think Affalo will stay if we offer him 18 million over 2 years. DWill should stay on a 4 year 24 million deal or 3 year 18 million deal with the last year being a player option. This leaves us with enough money to sign either 2 quality starting level players, or 1 really good starter. I also trust Phil will continue to pick up some steals like he has been able to with Lance Thomas, Galloway for veteran minimum money.
fishmike
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1/15/2016  1:16 PM
newyorker4ever wrote:
fishmike wrote:Galloway's value is not high right now. If the season ended today his best offer would probably be a KOQ type contract... $4mm a year for 3-4 years give or take. In 30 games through Nov-Dec he shot like 37% from the field and was not a very good player. Inconsistent would be putting it nicely.

Lance on the other hand is a very nice asset worth keeping. Not saying Im giving up on LG, plenty to like there, just that his poor play has hurt his value. When he started the season he was poised for a breakout. He stopped hitting 3s and it seems his confidence really took a hit. Hopefully he plays through it


Well this is all great stuff but it's stuff we already know and you didn't even answer the question of this thread??
fair enough... I would not trade them based on future salary considerations. Any of them. If we lose one to some team offering a crazy contract thems the breaks.

I would be open to a trade that clearly improves the team... just not because I am worried about losing them because of cap considerations.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
newyorker4ever
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1/15/2016  1:24 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:Keeping the bench players outside of Derrick Williams is not a big incentive for me. If they can return at a reasonable deal that would be solid. But realize Fisher is riding the starters big time - because the bench has not shown to be that good.

Lance Thomas and Galloway are guys you want to pay 3-4 M to, to do the job they are doing. You don't want to pay them more than that. If you're going to invest more than that in bench players, there are more talented players available in free agency.

Our objective should be to bring back Lopez, Porzingis, Melo and Williams - as that's our major strength of the team. We're incredibly tough to match up with and control up front. We're one of the best front court teams in the league.

In the backcourt, we've got Calderon and Grant on contract for next year. That gives us 6 players I think we'll likely see return. Grant is even big enough to play some 2 for us. We've got more than enough capspace that if Afflalo, Thomas, Galloway walk in free agency that we can go out and sign even better players. I would like to keep Afflalo, but the price needs to be within his current salary range.

I think the guy we lose is Lance Thomas, and that's unfortunately fine with me. I think Affalo will stay if we offer him 18 million over 2 years. DWill should stay on a 4 year 24 million deal or 3 year 18 million deal with the last year being a player option. This leaves us with enough money to sign either 2 quality starting level players, or 1 really good starter. I also trust Phil will continue to pick up some steals like he has been able to with Lance Thomas, Galloway for veteran minimum money.

But you're going on assumptions and no facts cause obviously there's no way to have facts on the future. You're assuming that we re-sign these guys for prices that you came up with and you're assuming that they won't get better offers from other teams and i guess assuming that if they did get better offers that they'd turn them offers down to stay with us but not every player is D.West and will turn down millions of dollars to play for a team that isn't a championship contender.
newyorker4ever
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1/15/2016  1:27 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/15/2016  1:30 PM
fishmike wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
fishmike wrote:Galloway's value is not high right now. If the season ended today his best offer would probably be a KOQ type contract... $4mm a year for 3-4 years give or take. In 30 games through Nov-Dec he shot like 37% from the field and was not a very good player. Inconsistent would be putting it nicely.

Lance on the other hand is a very nice asset worth keeping. Not saying Im giving up on LG, plenty to like there, just that his poor play has hurt his value. When he started the season he was poised for a breakout. He stopped hitting 3s and it seems his confidence really took a hit. Hopefully he plays through it


Well this is all great stuff but it's stuff we already know and you didn't even answer the question of this thread??
fair enough... I would not trade them based on future salary considerations. Any of them. If we lose one to some team offering a crazy contract thems the breaks.

I would be open to a trade that clearly improves the team... just not because I am worried about losing them because of cap considerations.


And that's all i'm really saying here is if we can get something for one or two of them that will help this rebuild that Phil is doing would you do it even if that means it hurts our chances at making the playoffs this year?? I can guarantee you if DW keeps playing like he is that he will opt out after this year and will be getting good offers from other teams and Lance will also be looking for more money and a multiple years contract and if we give them what they'll be looking for or have to outbid other teams for them then we can say good bye to any max contract guys. So are they worth that and should we just get something for them now before we even get to that???
MS
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1/15/2016  1:34 PM
The new NBA is very scary. How can teams realistically build a championship contender. The Knicks are really in a bad spot without a draft pick.

Marginal Role Players are getting near max deals. In what world are players like Tristan Thompson (16MM) Iman Shumpert (10MM) Carroll (15MM)Harrison Barnes (16MM a year turned down)

So it's virtually impossible for the Knicks to build a contender in today's market. Everyone on the team is and will get a raise and that leaves limited free agent money out there. Lance is going to get 6MM on the open market and Galloway probably in the same range. Affalo has earned himself 12MMN a season so our cap is going to be eaten up by a lot of our guys. All three are extremely important for our culture. I think you keep them, it's very important for this team to get in the playoffs and show folks things are different in NYC now. Phil needs it, Fisher needs it.
nyknickzingis
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1/15/2016  1:38 PM
I see our team in terms of the future (next season) as

Lopez/Porzingis (3rd string - O'Quinn)
Porzingis/Williams (3rd string - could be a veteran minimum guy or one of the 2nd round picks from previous drafts)
Melo/SF (3rd string - Early)
SG/Afflalo (3rd string - Vujacic)
PG/Grant (3rd string - Calderon)

I feel next year we'd be smart to invest in the SG, PG and SF positions like we did the Center/Shooting Guard positions this summer. Bring in 2-3 quality veterans who fit into the system and can give you around 10 points a night and some defense. At SF I'd like to just keep Lance, but it depends on the price range.

You definitely take a strong look and try to sign either Conley/Batum/DeRozan. If you can get 1 of them and pair them with some smaller additions at the other spots, that's very solid. If we get Batum or DeRozan, you may have to say goodbye to Afflalo.

Otherwise

At backup SF my targets would be Lance Thomas, Joe Johnson, Luol Deng, Jared Dudley
At starting SG my targets would be Evan Turner, Lance Stephenson, Kevin Martin, Gerald Henderson
At PG my targets would be Mario Chalmers, Gary Neal

We're 2-3 players who can make our 9 man rotation really strong, and Porzingis/Grant being better next season - away from being a 50 win team that's a legit contender in the East. Raptors are the 2nd best team in the East and we're not far off from them. Give this Knicks team a couple of quality free agents who can play and we're going to be in contention for anywhere from 2-8 in the playoffs next year.
knicks1248
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1/15/2016  1:41 PM
Im really all for keeping this roster for atleast another yr. I dont want to have to go though another season where players have to learn the triangle, and build chemistry. The phil jackson lakers and Bulls never made any significant moves once they solidify their core.

They may have added a piece ot two like, artest, glenn rice, tony k, rick fox. They always hung onto their role players.

Dwill had other offers b4 he signed here, he wants to be here

ES
nyknickzingis
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1/15/2016  1:53 PM
knicks1248 wrote:Im really all for keeping this roster for atleast another yr. I dont want to have to go though another season where players have to learn the triangle, and build chemistry. The phil jackson lakers and Bulls never made any significant moves once they solidify their core.

They may have added a piece ot two like, artest, glenn rice, tony k, rick fox. They always hung onto their role players.

Dwill had other offers b4 he signed here, he wants to be here


That's why I say it's important Afflalo and DWill come back and you give them raises if the market dictates it (but not at 4 year length type of deals). That'll give you 7 players from the team who have a whole experience to run the Triangle and play together - 8 with O'Quinn, 9 with Sasha (but neither will play a lot). 3 changes are very normal even in a situation for a team running Triangle. If we keep Afflalo/DWill with adding say 5-6 million a year even in salaries (3 M a year extra for AA, 2 M a year more for DWill) still leaves them with quite a bit of capspace to address the SF, SG and PG positional needs.
Chandler
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1/15/2016  2:01 PM
It all depends on what the market is doing. If it's crazy money ala Landry Fields, Lin we have to let them walk. I would like to see all those players retained if the money is right

Honestly, i think the Knicks have done a good job in this department, even when we had horrible regimes. I have a tough time remembering when we let someone walk and then truly regretted it.

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