TPercy wrote:Just change the system and watch the improvement on a majority of our players.

That's the problem tho. This system isn't about the individual, no more than the Spurs style of play is about the individual. The Spurs play a lot like the Knicks and actually use Triangle principles mixed into their offense. The Spurs play at the exact same pace as the Knicks, but they execute at a higher level consistently. When the Knicks actually execute they can perform at a high level too.

Any new player that actually has talent should be able to play well here too. The more talent they have the easier it should be to use that talent in this system. If you can shoot that won't change in this system. If you can push the ball and get to the rim that won't change in this system. If you can post up that won't change in this system. If you can pass that won't change in this system. Basically the only difference is if you are a PnR specialist and don't have much else to your game then it may hamper you. If you have a Low BBall IQ then this system may hamper you. If you lack experience and confidence then this could hamper you.

The low hanging fruit are all the D League players and Wroten who is just waiting. These are the easiest ways to try and add to the team and I would expect that to be the primary way Phil starts this process. They're cheap and usually young as well.

CrushAlot wrote:I think on 1/5 the Knicks either sign Wroten or Fredette to a ten day contract. I think if they can trade Seraphin for a pick, even a second rounder, they bring up Bachynski from Westchester.

Would you rather have a 2nd round pick over Seraphin though?? He's a good big to have coming off the bench.

fishmike wrote:

TPercy wrote:Just change the system and watch the improvement on a majority of our players.

who would you expect improvement from?

You prefer iso-Melo?

If we ran a lot of PNR with these guys out there and maybe some specific Triangle sets for guys Afflalo and DWill it could work. People keep talking about how getting a new fast PG is going to have a big impact on us when he would have to change the way he plays to fit the system.

nixluva wrote:

TPercy wrote:Just change the system and watch the improvement on a majority of our players.

That's the problem tho. This system isn't about the individual, no more than the Spurs style of play is about the individual. The Spurs play a lot like the Knicks and actually use Triangle principles mixed into their offense. The Spurs play at the exact same pace as the Knicks, but they execute at a higher level consistently. When the Knicks actually execute they can perform at a high level too.

Any new player that actually has talent should be able to play well here too. The more talent they have the easier it should be to use that talent in this system. If you can shoot that won't change in this system. If you can push the ball and get to the rim that won't change in this system. If you can post up that won't change in this system. If you can pass that won't change in this system. Basically the only difference is if you are a PnR specialist and don't have much else to your game then it may hamper you. If you have a Low BBall IQ then this system may hamper you. If you lack experience and confidence then this could hamper you.

The low hanging fruit are all the D League players and Wroten who is just waiting. These are the easiest ways to try and add to the team and I would expect that to be the primary way Phil starts this process. They're cheap and usually young as well.

Good post. Talent is always key to any system as you say especially if there is stability. Spurs have had the good fortune of a nucleus of great talent (Duncan, Parker, Gnobilli and of recent years Leonard) in place for years. Having that stable core leads to familiarity and coordination on both ends, a reason they are so efficient. Spurs complemented thatcore by fitting pieces like Green, Bonner etc who would not be as good on other teams. Green (like Neal before him) made his $ hitting corner threes in that system because a) he can and because b) they find him off penetration and ball movement. Knicks have no HOF center who can pass like Duncan from the high post or Diaw for that matter nor drive and dish players like Parker or Gnoblli nor several three pt shooters to take advantage of such. Im a Melo supporter and I do think he would adapt but he would not be allowed to be a ball stopper in their system. As for those calling for Grant and other youngsters to play, look at Kyle Anderson and some other talented youngsters on Spurs and how they are being groomed not rushed. Not sure we will ever be the Spurs because KP and Melo are at different career stages but I can see how Phil is taking his time to try to recreate what he had in LA and Chicago and see some similarity to the SA approach of building a team that can contend for a decade. Takes time and some luck. Time is frustrating but KP was a little luck

TPercy wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TPercy wrote:Just change the system and watch the improvement on a majority of our players.

That's the problem tho. This system isn't about the individual, no more than the Spurs style of play is about the individual. The Spurs play a lot like the Knicks and actually use Triangle principles mixed into their offense. The Spurs play at the exact same pace as the Knicks, but they execute at a higher level consistently. When the Knicks actually execute they can perform at a high level too.

Any new player that actually has talent should be able to play well here too. The more talent they have the easier it should be to use that talent in this system. If you can shoot that won't change in this system. If you can push the ball and get to the rim that won't change in this system. If you can post up that won't change in this system. If you can pass that won't change in this system. Basically the only difference is if you are a PnR specialist and don't have much else to your game then it may hamper you. If you have a Low BBall IQ then this system may hamper you. If you lack experience and confidence then this could hamper you.

The low hanging fruit are all the D League players and Wroten who is just waiting. These are the easiest ways to try and add to the team and I would expect that to be the primary way Phil starts this process. They're cheap and usually young as well.

But when a system is affecting a chunk of our "individuals" mainly because of said reasons then what does that tell you?

nixluva wrote:

TPercy wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TPercy wrote:Just change the system and watch the improvement on a majority of our players.

That's the problem tho. This system isn't about the individual, no more than the Spurs style of play is about the individual. The Spurs play a lot like the Knicks and actually use Triangle principles mixed into their offense. The Spurs play at the exact same pace as the Knicks, but they execute at a higher level consistently. When the Knicks actually execute they can perform at a high level too.

Any new player that actually has talent should be able to play well here too. The more talent they have the easier it should be to use that talent in this system. If you can shoot that won't change in this system. If you can push the ball and get to the rim that won't change in this system. If you can post up that won't change in this system. If you can pass that won't change in this system. Basically the only difference is if you are a PnR specialist and don't have much else to your game then it may hamper you. If you have a Low BBall IQ then this system may hamper you. If you lack experience and confidence then this could hamper you.

The low hanging fruit are all the D League players and Wroten who is just waiting. These are the easiest ways to try and add to the team and I would expect that to be the primary way Phil starts this process. They're cheap and usually young as well.

But when a system is affecting a chunk of our "individuals" mainly because of said reasons then what does that tell you?

First of all our players are starting to adjust to the system! RoLo is getting more and more comfortable, as is Melo, LT, DWill and I could go on a on down the line with players that are starting to get the hang of the system and each other. I anticipate that we will see the team start to execute at a higher level more and more. The key is to stay in the system and allow the players to learn and grow in it and make it 2nd nature.

Please go on down this "list" of yours.

TPercy wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TPercy wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TPercy wrote:Just change the system and watch the improvement on a majority of our players.

who would you expect improvement from?

You prefer iso-Melo?

Calderon
Lopez
KOQ
KP
Grant
Galloway(if he is the PG)
Early
Melo(not affected)

If we ran a lot of PNR with these guys out there and maybe some specific Triangle sets for guys Afflalo and DWill it could work. People keep talking about how getting a new fast PG is going to have a big impact on us when he would have to change the way he plays to fit the system.

so you think the system is holding back KP? I would love to see you expand on this...
KOQ... right at his career avgs. KP having a rookie breakout year. Melo playing the best team ball of his career. Its like you just named random guys on the Knick roster. Will your system help the Knicks hit the open shots they are missing? And if your new system doesnt work after 30ish games can we scrap it? Honest questions....

Sorry if I have you mistaken but you seem to be confusing "setbacks" and "improvment"
I am saying that all of those guys would benefit from a more "PNR" based system or focusing more on the plays within the triangle that use it.
-Was Calderon not really good at running PnR at Dallas with Dirk?
-Wasn't Lopez benefited from running PnR in Portland because of how good he was at setting picks?
-Grant was statistically the best pick and roll guard in college
-Did you not see how much free flowing our play was against Detroit(particularly 4Q) when we ran that consistently with Galloway and OQuinn? I would rather see a lot more of that than watching him hit and miss with all those long twos and horrible forced looks he has been getting in the post
-Don't you think that teaching KP(after he learns how to set picks more effectively) would get much him much better shot selection?

Bottom line is you are 30 games into it. They (the Knicks) want to play system basketball. Fast break points arent from the system, they are from guys who run. Jose, Melo, AA, Lopez.. these are half court guys... even notice when the Knicks have a couple practices they look great?

You have to give this time. 30 games is a good measuring stick but I dont see the system as the problem. Phil has said we need some players who can get to the basket and we really dont have that right now. Most everything wrong with the system is we dont have anyone but DWill who can really get to the basket. Its not just about mid range jumpers, those are what you take when you cant attack the basket.