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Man if we had a real coach we prob would have won these last two games
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fitzfarm
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12/23/2015  9:27 PM
Yet again another loss on fisher... We really should be 2 games over 500... Our best player gets zero shots in the 4th ...Trying to make AA play the Melo role vs their best defender...and again not getting our best player the ball when he is wide open ... Again how much longer are we going to suffer... We should have won this game but because of poor coaching we lost... How many timeouts can you call and not score off the inbound is the guy not even drawing up plays? Again KP not getting the ball and force feeding AA on there best defender, are you funking kidding me. Fish you need coaching school
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fitzfarm
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12/23/2015  9:34 PM
Two great efforts wasted on poor coaching... Those are games you build off of as a team instead it worsens the team confidence of your role players ... When is Phil going to make this guy go to school... It's time for a real coach ... I would take anyone over this former player who cannot figure his rotation and its almost January! can't call plays off timeouts, can't coach period ... This needs a change I'm over the fish experiment... Again better coach and we would be well over 500
WaltLongmire
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12/23/2015  9:50 PM
I'm going to take a guess and say that you are upset.


How do you know what set plays, if any, were part of the Knicks offense down the stretch.

Guys were not looking for KP. He was wide open on numerous occasions and was not passed to. Simple as that.

That is not on Fisher, IMO. In the heat of battle they were not making good decisions. KP had the 3 down tonight, but they only seemed to look for him in the post for most of the second half.

Guys on the court have to figure see who has the best shot to score and also consider how a player has been doing in a particular game.

Bad game for AA, who must have felt the need to compensate for Anthony's absence.

Fisher can't be on the court and on the bench at the same time. Was he a good coach when KP got a lot of looks in the first half and period 3...or do you give all the credit to the players for the good stuff you saw, and only blame Fisher for the bad play?

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
blkexec
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12/23/2015  9:53 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/23/2015  9:59 PM
I wouldn't put everything on poor coaching. Thats why you set realistic goals prior to the game. And those goals were far exceeded. A better coach might have won the game and also might have caused KP a major injury. The blame game can go around and touch everybody. Towns and OK4 for example, would've demanded the ball....This is something KP will learn to do. And something Fisher and Calderon (the two important leaders on and off the court) will improve at. But once the alpha male returns (Melo) it's a different ball game with a different set of issues. But the bottom line, we are showing progress...Can't ask for anything more! If we keep heading in this direction, we might eventually break that 40 yr championship drought.

And yes....I will always consider the starting PG to be the extention of the coach....At least thats how it should be. The PG usually has the ball in his hands most of the game, and the PG sets the tone and calls the plays. This team could really use a better in game sigal caller. Calderon is not that type of player....Hes a knock down shooter. Melo is not a PG, he's a scorer. A solid PG would put everybody in their natural positions. And AA wouldn't have dominated the ball so much down the stretch.....And we posibly would've won.....But we can't win until we lose close games like this, against a championship caliber team. I think playing more athletes and transition defenders helped us stay in this game......

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
nyknickzingis
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12/23/2015  9:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/23/2015  9:57 PM
I blame Fisher because I saw the guards look back at him and signal the play and it seemed like posting up AA was part of the scheme. I don't think Fish is a bad coach in the sense that he is much like when he was a teammate, a guy that likes to make the team gel and play together. Lots of cohesion. But, he's slow at recognition. I don't know if he'll get it at some point, but 1.5 years in, he's still a slow coach who often plays a lot of bad lineups. He's great at some things though - like getting respect from his players and getting them to run his system. Which is part of being a head coach as well. Being a head coach in the NBA isn't just X's and O's. I think right now what the team needs badly is an associate head coach type. Someone with more NBA experience as a coach. Tex Winter would have been great addition but he's retired. Someone who can give Fisher better schemes. Fisher recognizes stuff waaaaay too late.
blkexec
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12/23/2015  10:02 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:I blame Fisher because I saw the guards look back at him and signal the play and it seemed like posting up AA was part of the scheme. I don't think Fish is a bad coach in the sense that he is much like when he was a teammate, a guy that likes to make the team gel and play together. Lots of cohesion. But, he's slow at recognition. I don't know if he'll get it at some point, but 1.5 years in, he's still a slow coach who often plays a lot of bad lineups. He's great at some things though - like getting respect from his players and getting them to run his system. Which is part of being a head coach as well. Being a head coach in the NBA isn't just X's and O's. I think right now what the team needs badly is an associate head coach type. Someone with more NBA experience as a coach. Tex Winter would have been great addition but he's retired. Someone who can give Fisher better schemes. Fisher recognizes stuff waaaaay too late.

Fisher needs a veteran PG like Kidd for example. Kidd was a second coach on the floor....Chauncey also played that role......Fisher ain't going anywhere, but we can build around him. At least this is my guess at Phils thinking moving forward.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
WaltLongmire
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12/23/2015  10:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/23/2015  10:06 PM
blkexec wrote:I wouldn't put everything on poor coaching. Thats why you set realistic goals prior to the game. And those goals were far exceeded. A better coach might have won the game and also might have caused KP a major injury. The blame game can go around and touch everybody. Towns and OK4 for example, would've demanded the ball....This is something KP will learn to do. And something Fisher and Calderon (the two important leaders on and off the court) will improve at. But once the alpha male returns (Melo) it's a different ball game with a different set of issues. But the bottom line, we are showing progress...Can't ask for anything more! If we keep heading in this direction, we might eventually break that 40 yr championship drought.

Good example of KP needing to go to post-up school in the off-season. Desperately needs a variety of hook shots and quick turn around J's in his tool box...BUT

I think KP put himself into enough situations on the court to warrant getting the ball more down the stretch, though, and he was open for a number of 3s when the team really could have used one.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
HofstraBBall
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12/23/2015  10:13 PM
Can you blame a coach that holds the NBA finals team to under 37% shooting until the last 3 Minutes? Keeps a team, without their star player, in the game until the last 3 minutes of a game. Is unable to stop the best player in the league from taking over in the last couple of minutes? Yes, hindsight says he could of or should of but blaming him for the loss? Probably not be the best game to do so. Our offense just got tentative in the last minutes when Cavs turned up the heat. Good game all around. Including the coaching.
'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
WaltLongmire
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12/23/2015  10:17 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/23/2015  10:19 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:I blame Fisher because I saw the guards look back at him and signal the play and it seemed like posting up AA was part of the scheme. I don't think Fish is a bad coach in the sense that he is much like when he was a teammate, a guy that likes to make the team gel and play together. Lots of cohesion. But, he's slow at recognition. I don't know if he'll get it at some point, but 1.5 years in, he's still a slow coach who often plays a lot of bad lineups. He's great at some things though - like getting respect from his players and getting them to run his system. Which is part of being a head coach as well. Being a head coach in the NBA isn't just X's and O's. I think right now what the team needs badly is an associate head coach type. Someone with more NBA experience as a coach. Tex Winter would have been great addition but he's retired. Someone who can give Fisher better schemes. Fisher recognizes stuff waaaaay too late.

AA had been pretty successful posting up against Shumpert in the second half, and Aflalo has been very good in isolation situations down low in recent games. He's just not that good passing out once he's made up his mind to shoot, and he seemed to force things down the stretch.

This is an offense which rewards movement and players who put themselves into position to score, but players also have to recognize teammates who might have a better chance to score than they do.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
nyknickzingis
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12/23/2015  10:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/23/2015  10:24 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:I blame Fisher because I saw the guards look back at him and signal the play and it seemed like posting up AA was part of the scheme. I don't think Fish is a bad coach in the sense that he is much like when he was a teammate, a guy that likes to make the team gel and play together. Lots of cohesion. But, he's slow at recognition. I don't know if he'll get it at some point, but 1.5 years in, he's still a slow coach who often plays a lot of bad lineups. He's great at some things though - like getting respect from his players and getting them to run his system. Which is part of being a head coach as well. Being a head coach in the NBA isn't just X's and O's. I think right now what the team needs badly is an associate head coach type. Someone with more NBA experience as a coach. Tex Winter would have been great addition but he's retired. Someone who can give Fisher better schemes. Fisher recognizes stuff waaaaay too late.

AA had been pretty successful posting up against Shumpert in the second half, and Aflalo has been very good in isolation situations down low in recent games. He's just not that good passing out once he's made up his mind to shoot, and he seemed to force things down the stretch.

This is an offense which rewards movement and players who put themselves into position to score, but players also have to recognize teammates who might have a better chance to score than they do.


Afflalo's a good post up player and someone you should go to. But to treat him like a star and go to him every single possession or multiple possessions in a row is very weak strategy. No successful NBA teams run their offense through a 13-14 ppg SG in the clutch. You run either the team offense which tonight seemed to be plenty of S/R, or you give it to your guards up high to create something. The easiest thing to defend for a good defense in the NBA is the way we used Afflalo and how we operated in the 4th Q. Very simple easy offense to defend.
fitzfarm
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12/23/2015  10:25 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/23/2015  10:38 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:I'm going to take a guess and say that you are upset.


How do you know what set plays, if any, were part of the Knicks offense down the stretch.

Guys were not looking for KP. He was wide open on numerous occasions and was not passed to. Simple as that.

That is not on Fisher, IMO. In the heat of battle they were not making good decisions. KP had the 3 down tonight, but they only seemed to look for him in the post for most of the second half.

Guys on the court have to figure see who has the best shot to score and also consider how a player has been doing in a particular game.

Bad game for AA, who must have felt the need to compensate for Anthony's absence.

Fisher can't be on the court and on the bench at the same time. Was he a good coach when KP got a lot of looks in the first half and period 3...or do you give all the credit to the players for the good stuff you saw, and only blame Fisher for the bad play?

Yes I'm upset.. But why can't we have a successful inbound play, why is our rotation so random,why didn't the coach call plays for KP down the stretch of the fourth .or why call timeouts midway through shot clocks? Why did we go iso AA, fisher is the guy calling for that on the sideline? Why didn't fish demand to get KP the ball in the 4th? Why is he not playing Williams more when Williams was having a great game ? Why play your worst defender 18 of the first 24 minutes of the game.

This game was gift wrapped for us and I feel if the coach.

.sucessfully executed a inbound play
. Told his team to get the ball to KP in the fourth
. Played d will who was having a great game in the forth during crunch time
. Didn't play Jose during crunch time
. Didn't call for Iso AA vs their best defender in crunch time


We would have and should have won this game ..

We need a coach who knows how to coach close games to victory..
nixluva
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12/23/2015  10:25 PM
I'm gonna be a bit harder on Fish here. You have to actually practice having players in a Primary Scorers role in this offense! Gallo is not in a Primary Scoring role. MELO is in the Pinch Post and that is a Primary Scoring spot. RoLo is also in the other Primary Spot tho he is miscast. Fish must have the team practice with KP in a primary role and then they won't be able to forget him. The offense would run thru him or involve him as a shooter like he would off Curls and out of Down Screens or PnR!
mreinman
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12/23/2015  11:20 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
blkexec wrote:I wouldn't put everything on poor coaching. Thats why you set realistic goals prior to the game. And those goals were far exceeded. A better coach might have won the game and also might have caused KP a major injury. The blame game can go around and touch everybody. Towns and OK4 for example, would've demanded the ball....This is something KP will learn to do. And something Fisher and Calderon (the two important leaders on and off the court) will improve at. But once the alpha male returns (Melo) it's a different ball game with a different set of issues. But the bottom line, we are showing progress...Can't ask for anything more! If we keep heading in this direction, we might eventually break that 40 yr championship drought.

Good example of KP needing to go to post-up school in the off-season. Desperately needs a variety of hook shots and quick turn around J's in his tool box...BUT

I think KP put himself into enough situations on the court to warrant getting the ball more down the stretch, though, and he was open for a number of 3s when the team really could have used one.

he may have been open for more 3's but he was already way over his UK-genius quota of 1-2 per game

so here is what phil is thinking ....
WaltLongmire
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12/24/2015  12:10 AM
mreinman wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
blkexec wrote:I wouldn't put everything on poor coaching. Thats why you set realistic goals prior to the game. And those goals were far exceeded. A better coach might have won the game and also might have caused KP a major injury. The blame game can go around and touch everybody. Towns and OK4 for example, would've demanded the ball....This is something KP will learn to do. And something Fisher and Calderon (the two important leaders on and off the court) will improve at. But once the alpha male returns (Melo) it's a different ball game with a different set of issues. But the bottom line, we are showing progress...Can't ask for anything more! If we keep heading in this direction, we might eventually break that 40 yr championship drought.

Good example of KP needing to go to post-up school in the off-season. Desperately needs a variety of hook shots and quick turn around J's in his tool box...BUT

I think KP put himself into enough situations on the court to warrant getting the ball more down the stretch, though, and he was open for a number of 3s when the team really could have used one.

he may have been open for more 3's but he was already way over his UK-genius quota of 1-2 per game


You go with the hot hand, and he had the 3 stroke going. Hard for me to believe that guys would not be looking to set him up down the stretch.

KP seemed more at ease taking his shots without feeling a need to defer to Carmelo. No criticism of Anthony, but it's a psychological issue for a young player like Porzingis, IMO. Not as many of those poorly spaced 25ft from the basket entry passes from KP to Melo tonight.

Frustrating loss that didn't have to be.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
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12/24/2015  7:27 AM
WaltLongmire wrote:
blkexec wrote:I wouldn't put everything on poor coaching. Thats why you set realistic goals prior to the game. And those goals were far exceeded. A better coach might have won the game and also might have caused KP a major injury. The blame game can go around and touch everybody. Towns and OK4 for example, would've demanded the ball....This is something KP will learn to do. And something Fisher and Calderon (the two important leaders on and off the court) will improve at. But once the alpha male returns (Melo) it's a different ball game with a different set of issues. But the bottom line, we are showing progress...Can't ask for anything more! If we keep heading in this direction, we might eventually break that 40 yr championship drought.

Good example of KP needing to go to post-up school in the off-season. Desperately needs a variety of hook shots and quick turn around J's in his tool box...BUT

I think KP put himself into enough situations on the court to warrant getting the ball more down the stretch, though, and he was open for a number of 3s when the team really could have used one.

I would love to see KP go to Olajuwon's camp like STAT did. He would learn so much. The other thing that KP needs help with is his handle. He seems to lose his dribble or get stripped too much.

Last night his energy was great. Good to see him bounce back.
Chandler
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12/24/2015  12:00 PM
Lot of good posts here! I agree with the sentiments that fish has to get credit for the team playing hard even though they were down melo and koq. And they played good D.

Fish still struggles w in game adjustments and rotations. Team would really benefit in so many ways w a Kidd-like pg on floor acting as coach.

(5)(7)
meloshouldgo
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12/24/2015  12:31 PM
I think Fish comes in with a game plan and sticks to it. He hasn't shown the ability to adapt dynamically to what the opposition is doing. Given the opposition was the full and healthy team that when to the finals last year and we didn't have one of our two main scorers on the floor, I am not worried.
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Knicks1969
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12/24/2015  1:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/24/2015  1:09 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:Can you blame a coach that holds the NBA finals team to under 37% shooting until the last 3 Minutes? Keeps a team, without their star player, in the game until the last 3 minutes of a game. Is unable to stop the best player in the league from taking over in the last couple of minutes? Yes, hindsight says he could of or should of but blaming him for the loss? Probably not be the best game to do so. Our offense just got tentative in the last minutes when Cavs turned up the heat. Good game all around. Including the coaching.

The coach that held the NBA finals team to 37% shooting????? Did he suit up and defend the other team?

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
fishmike
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12/24/2015  1:13 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:Can you blame a coach that holds the NBA finals team to under 37% shooting until the last 3 Minutes? Keeps a team, without their star player, in the game until the last 3 minutes of a game. Is unable to stop the best player in the league from taking over in the last couple of minutes? Yes, hindsight says he could of or should of but blaming him for the loss? Probably not be the best game to do so. Our offense just got tentative in the last minutes when Cavs turned up the heat. Good game all around. Including the coaching.

The coach that held the NBA finals team to 37% shooting????? Did he suit up and defend the other team?

No... but he DID fail to hit shots down the stretch. Actually the coach failed to get the players to get the ball to KP, but if KP had missed those shots? THAT would have been the coaches fault for sure.

Has anyone who writes this stuff ever actually played a team sport past the 6th grade town rec league?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TeamBall
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12/24/2015  1:18 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:Can you blame a coach that holds the NBA finals team to under 37% shooting until the last 3 Minutes? Keeps a team, without their star player, in the game until the last 3 minutes of a game. Is unable to stop the best player in the league from taking over in the last couple of minutes? Yes, hindsight says he could of or should of but blaming him for the loss? Probably not be the best game to do so. Our offense just got tentative in the last minutes when Cavs turned up the heat. Good game all around. Including the coaching.

The coach that held the NBA finals team to 37% shooting????? Did he suit up and defend the other team?

No... but he DID fail to hit shots down the stretch. Actually the coach failed to get the players to get the ball to KP, but if KP had missed those shots? THAT would have been the coaches fault for sure.

Has anyone who writes this stuff ever actually played a team sport past the 6th grade town rec league?


I agree with you fish but I see where Knicks1969 is coming from. If you're going to go as for as to give FISHER the credit for holding the cavs to a low shooting percentage then it does need to go both ways.
Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.
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Man if we had a real coach we prob would have won these last two games
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