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The Return of The Real Carmelo
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Knicks1969
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12/14/2015  6:36 AM
Judging by what I have seen the last two games, I believe Carmelo has finally found his stride. The (warranted) criticism he has gotten; specifically from Barkley has awaken a beast out of this dude. His legs looked very strong in the Portland game, Which enabled him to finish most of the plays he was having problems with early on. I pray that he can continue to push through, because this dude is a very valuable piece for the entire league. I believe we will soon see the consistent 28 and 10 player.
Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
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Bonn1997
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12/14/2015  8:01 AM
ten what?
Knicks1969
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12/14/2015  8:29 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:ten what?

Rebounds....

28/8/5 assists/1 1/2 blocks/1 steal.


That is a lot more like what he his numbers will look like

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
Bonn1997
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12/14/2015  9:53 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/14/2015  9:54 AM
There's a big difference between 10 and his normal healthy 6 to 7 rbs and a big difference between 5 and his normal 3 assists a game. You're talking about him doing things he's never done before. Regardless of those per game stats, I just want to see him make (MUCH) more than 43% of his 2 point shots .
Knicks1969
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12/14/2015  10:31 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:There's a big difference between 10 and his normal healthy 6 to 7 rbs and a big difference between 5 and his normal 3 assists a game. You're talking about him doing things he's never done before. Regardless of those per game stats, I just want to see him make (MUCH) more than 43% of his 2 point shots .

He will. I expect for him to do a much better job rebounding and passing the ball. He has the capabilities. Instead of getting mad at Barkley for calling him out, he needs to let his game speaks for itself. Go out there and defend like he did in Portland; suddenly the whole world will take notice

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
crzymdups
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12/14/2015  10:34 AM
I don't know that he's back yet. He didn't trust his shot in the Sacramento game - he looked very off to me in that one. I hope he's back, but he's had hot games before that haven't carried over - Washington, Brooklyn, etc.

I hope he's back - this team is 8-3 when he shoots over 40% from the field. We're a different, better team with a good Carmelo.

¿ △ ?
Knicks1969
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12/14/2015  10:41 AM
crzymdups wrote:I don't know that he's back yet. He didn't trust his shot in the Sacramento game - he looked very off to me in that one. I hope he's back, but he's had hot games before that haven't carried over - Washington, Brooklyn, etc.

I hope he's back - this team is 8-3 when he shoots over 40% from the field. We're a different, better team with a good Carmelo.

I wonder if he changed his preface routine to fit the Carmelo he is today. If not, perhaps he needs to consider going to the arena earlier to work on his game. I really don't like the fourth quarter Carmelo I have seen the last two years; he definitely needs to improve in that department. In the forth, he needs to stop settling for jumpers and put onus on the refs by attacking the basket. IMO, he is getting his catches way too far from the basket. He needs to get in the paint to do his things. He should be shooting at least 8 freethrows per game

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
fishmike
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12/14/2015  12:48 PM
the real Carmelo was able to sustain performances like that for a month at time and carry a team to many wins while winning NBA player of the month. What we have now is an oversized SF who takes tons of jump shots. Its very possible (cringe) this team was built with that Carmelo (the *real* Carmelo) in mind and he's never coming back. Time will tell. Portland game was promising. So was Sac. Some hybrid of the two is ideal.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
dk7th
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12/14/2015  1:00 PM
the triangle system doesn't want or need the "real carmelo." the triangle needs an efficient scorer and eager playmaker for others. knick fans have seen this movie before-- melo being melo is counterproductive.

this season was not supposed to be about making the playoffs anyway. it was supposed to be about learning how to play as a unit and engaging in the process of learning how to win and what it takes to sustain a level of excellence.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Knixkik
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12/14/2015  1:02 PM
fishmike wrote:the real Carmelo was able to sustain performances like that for a month at time and carry a team to many wins while winning NBA player of the month. What we have now is an oversized SF who takes tons of jump shots. Its very possible (cringe) this team was built with that Carmelo (the *real* Carmelo) in mind and he's never coming back. Time will tell. Portland game was promising. So was Sac. Some hybrid of the two is ideal.

At 31 coming off that surgery, it was tough to expect that Carmelo to fully come back. We won't see him put up 30 ppg consistently, but hopefully we don't have to. What i'm hoping for is an equally efficient Melo to come back, in less minutes. For him to be back, i will judge it on shooting percents climbing back up, rather than total ppg. And some games like that from time to time where he just takes over. Hopefully we get back 90% of the old Melo, which i think we will.
RonRon
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12/14/2015  1:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/14/2015  1:11 PM
I believe CA has been trying to FIT IN while he has tried moving the ball much more this season and give much more efffort in DEFENSE as well

However, we simply do not have the weapons needed, for better BALL AND PLAYER movement, along with shooters to spread the floor
Therefore we need to upgrade our roster to execute a philosophy

I still believe CA plays his best at PF, while the combination of Lopez, KP, and CA is simply too slow and has too many weakness together on BOTH OFF and DEF
At least until KP can take advantage of his mismatches and get stronger, while developing his skills and body

ROLO needs to also improve his lack of OFFENSE and poor hands, along with a more consistent FREE THROW DISTANCE shot that he is capable of making
He currently is a HUGE liability on OFFENSE and isn't good enough in DEFENSE/REBOUNDING/SHOT BLOCKING to START with our roster
Though he is 26 and could improve and has a strong work ethic like Jared Jeffries improved from his 1st stinct to 2nd stinct
If we can trade him with the Centers available this summer, I would do so

With some other players from the other post I made,
Though we can improve with smaller contracts like

Ish Smith (as there will be a HUGE crop of PGs to chose from in 1 1/2 year)
Shabazz Muhmmedd (who is available in trade talks eventually)

Evan Turner

David Lee/Josh Smith

Lance Stephnson/Tony Wroten


With Durant being in a contract year and the rise of the cap, will OKC keep both Westbrook and Durant? At 30m per year? And Ibaka will be looking for an extension as well with Triston Thompson setting the market...
Or may Westbrook seek to go to another team, whether Durant resigns or not, could give him an incentive to leave, especially to a larger market to promote his branding
MSG and Westbrook would give each other ENERGY like no other arena, while IMO, Westbrook needs a system to tweak his style of play to being a more efficient player on BOTH ENDS
IF Westbrook wanted to force his way out of OKC to NYK's, he could, rather than being a possible pawn in signing an extension with 2 alphas in OKC and being known as a cheap low market team while Dolan would overpay for him till he is 38
mreinman
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12/14/2015  1:33 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:ten what?

Rebounds....

28/8/5 assists/1 1/2 blocks/1 steal.


That is a lot more like what he his numbers will look like

whoa! Are you dreaming?

so here is what phil is thinking ....
mreinman
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12/14/2015  1:35 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/14/2015  1:35 PM
fishmike wrote:the real Carmelo was able to sustain performances like that for a month at time and carry a team to many wins while winning NBA player of the month. What we have now is an oversized SF who takes tons of jump shots. Its very possible (cringe) this team was built with that Carmelo (the *real* Carmelo) in mind and he's never coming back. Time will tell. Portland game was promising. So was Sac. Some hybrid of the two is ideal.

He never avg'd 10 rebounds and 5 assists for a month. He probably never did that for 3 straight games.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
WaltLongmire
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12/14/2015  2:09 PM
Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.

5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.

If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.

If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.

You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.

Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.

At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
dk7th
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12/14/2015  2:15 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.

5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.

If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.

If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.

You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.

Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.

At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?

+1

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
mreinman
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12/14/2015  2:21 PM
dk7th wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.

5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.

If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.

If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.

You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.

Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.

At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?

+1

1 + 1

so here is what phil is thinking ....
fishmike
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12/14/2015  3:02 PM
mreinman wrote:
fishmike wrote:the real Carmelo was able to sustain performances like that for a month at time and carry a team to many wins while winning NBA player of the month. What we have now is an oversized SF who takes tons of jump shots. Its very possible (cringe) this team was built with that Carmelo (the *real* Carmelo) in mind and he's never coming back. Time will tell. Portland game was promising. So was Sac. Some hybrid of the two is ideal.

He never avg'd 10 rebounds and 5 assists for a month. He probably never did that for 3 straight games.

I never quoted numbers. He's has carried teams with his scoring for months at a time and won player of the month while doing so. I value the wins, not the other #s. Thats what I want to see.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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12/14/2015  3:11 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.

5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.

If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.

If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.

You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.

Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.

At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?

Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.

As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
dk7th
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12/14/2015  3:21 PM
fishmike wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.

5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.

If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.

If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.

You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.

Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.

At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?

Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.

As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!

you're right... it's his style of play. so you can't throw his teammates under the bus for the playoff failures every single year. that's just a way of avoiding the uncomfortable truth that his style of play, with its profound flaws, gets exposed in the playoffs. he is the the red thread in his own career.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
knicks1248
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12/14/2015  3:36 PM
dk7th wrote:
fishmike wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Have no idea what the word "Real" means to some.

5APG is "real?" Wish Melo could average 5 APG...did not do it in his prime, though- never even cracked 4. He has been a much better distributor at times this year, which I like. He should continue to do it, even if guys are missing too many of the good looks he gets them.

If he is scoring 28PPG it will mean that the offense is broken and Anthony is putting up a ton of shots, since he is not going to have the 62% from the field he had the other day. This is not "real," and not good for the team, either.

If the Knicks are not winning, and he is averaging 28PPG, who cares. If he's doing it, and we are winning and the team is playing like a team, then I can accept it.

You know you have a losing team when fans cling to the statistics other than the winning % of their team. If you play the right way and win, the good stats will be there to cherish and roll about in like a pig in mud.

Most important thing for this season though is the development of our "younger" players, and I'm not just talking about the rookies. Have to see if we have something in Williams, Gallo, and O'Quinn, and I'd really like to know if Early has a future with the team.

At this time I'm probably more willing to accept a certain kind of play if it can somehow sneak us into the playoff picture because it would be good for the franchise and a selling point to FAs, but if a situation develops where there is an offensive imbalance, and the team is losing while the rookies are stagnant in their development, what is the point of it all?

Melo has played 12 years. I believe every year he's led his team in scoring and his first 10 seasons in the NBA were all winning seasons. The anti Melo crowd would have you believe he's a career loser putting up good numbers. His problem has been the post season where his style of play and/or lack of team depth have been exposed each year. Losing regular season games is a new thing for him.

As father time kicks in we will see how he adjusts. He's passed better and defended better this year. Sadly for Knick fans we have yet to view those improved traits with some good shooting as well. Now would be nice!

you're right... it's his style of play. so you can't throw his teammates under the bus for the playoff failures every single year. that's just a way of avoiding the uncomfortable truth that his style of play, with its profound flaws, gets exposed in the playoffs. he is the the red thread in his own career.


Would you keep passing to players if they kept missing just to say i'm a team player, would you do anything with anyone who's unreliable. The only time your best scorer should pass the ball is if he's double, or if someone has a better shot. Too many times i see passes that never had a chance, it results in a T O, and the same peole who wanted him to pass, will say how could make that pass.

All i ever want from a player, is to play hard and smart, if you do that, every hitting else will work out

ES
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