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The Rolo effect
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EnySpree
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12/10/2015  11:38 AM
Face it he sucks.

But he has a way of making it seem like he's dominating inside. Boxing out and sealing up the defense with zero stats to prove it.

he was given credit for helping Aldridge have his best season in Portland. Can he be given the same props for helping Kristaps out there?

How can we make things work with him around?

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Knixkik
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12/10/2015  11:41 AM
EnySpree wrote:Face it he sucks.

But he has a way of making it seem like he's dominating inside. Boxing out and sealing up the defense with zero stats to prove it.

he was given credit for helping Aldridge have his best season in Portland. Can he be given the same props for helping Kristaps out there?

How can we make things work with him around?

He doesn't suck, he has just looked out of place lately. He was the starting center on a very good team in the western conference. He needs to be used differently. He has proven to be a high level starter in the league. He didn't become trash overnight. If he goes from averaging 11 and 9 on a western conference powerhouse, to struggling in NY, then there is something wrong with how he is being used. Coaches need to figure it out. And benching him is not the answer.
mreinman
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12/10/2015  11:47 AM
2 things, of course he is being used horribly wrong and he is a cleanup guy and there is nothing to cleanup.

I would love to see a stat for how many drives our guards have had this year that ended in an assisted layup for a teammate.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
fitzfarm
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12/10/2015  11:49 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2015  11:52 AM
In Portland he barely got the ball on offense he was out there to set picks and grab rebounds ... Not sit in the post and facilitate the offense... The guy isn't here to find the open man.... KP or Melo should be the guy in the post while Rolo sets picks to free up Jose or AA or even KP and when the shot goes up crash the boards .... That's how Rolo did it in Portland and that's playing to his strength putbacks and picks that's his game... He's never been a post facilitator ... He's not gasol he's more of a bigger Marcus Camby... At least with KP and Melo they can pass out or use a array of moves to score... Let Rolo set off the ball picks he's really good at it .. Hence why Wesley Matthews had his best year shooting wide open 3's
mreinman
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12/10/2015  11:54 AM
fitzfarm wrote:In Portland he barely got the ball on offense he was out there to set picks and grab rebounds ... Not sit in the post and facilitate the offense... The guy isn't here to find the open man.... KP or Melo should be the guy in the post while Rolo sets picks to free up Jose or AA or even KP and when the shot goes up crash the boards .... That's how Rolo did it in Portland and that's playing to his strength putbacks and picks that's his game... He's never been a post facilitator ... He's not gasol he's more of a bigger Marcus Camby... At least with KP and Melo they can pass out or use a array of moves to score... Let Rolo set off the ball picks he's really good at it .. Hence why Wesley Matthews had his best year shooting wide open 3's

mathews did not have all the open 3's because of Rolo's picks. Maybe that was a tiny part of it. It was mainly because of all their really good players that needed to be defended and lillards penetration.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
fitzfarm
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12/10/2015  11:59 AM
mreinman wrote:2 things, of course he is being used horribly wrong and he is a cleanup guy and there is nothing to cleanup.

I would love to see a stat for how many drives our guards have had this year that ended in an assisted layup for a teammate.

Jose doesn't drive is a huge issue for the reason we are a jump shooting team our pg can not break down the defense by penetrating to the hoop... Melo too needs to drive to the hoop more he's really good at it. We need a pg who sets the offensive tempo.. Grant or Gallo would do a better job Rolo could play the tralior role even if the ball gets passed out he would be in ideal position for the offensive rebound
fitzfarm
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12/10/2015  12:01 PM
mreinman wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:In Portland he barely got the ball on offense he was out there to set picks and grab rebounds ... Not sit in the post and facilitate the offense... The guy isn't here to find the open man.... KP or Melo should be the guy in the post while Rolo sets picks to free up Jose or AA or even KP and when the shot goes up crash the boards .... That's how Rolo did it in Portland and that's playing to his strength putbacks and picks that's his game... He's never been a post facilitator ... He's not gasol he's more of a bigger Marcus Camby... At least with KP and Melo they can pass out or use a array of moves to score... Let Rolo set off the ball picks he's really good at it .. Hence why Wesley Matthews had his best year shooting wide open 3's

mathews did not have all the open 3's because of Rolo's picks. Maybe that was a tiny part of it. It was mainly because of all their really good players that needed to be defended and lillards penetration.

I did not say all of his threes were open ... Just that Rolo set a lot of off the ball screens for them getting guys like Mathews and batum open looks or just space
mreinman
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12/10/2015  12:04 PM
fitzfarm wrote:
mreinman wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:In Portland he barely got the ball on offense he was out there to set picks and grab rebounds ... Not sit in the post and facilitate the offense... The guy isn't here to find the open man.... KP or Melo should be the guy in the post while Rolo sets picks to free up Jose or AA or even KP and when the shot goes up crash the boards .... That's how Rolo did it in Portland and that's playing to his strength putbacks and picks that's his game... He's never been a post facilitator ... He's not gasol he's more of a bigger Marcus Camby... At least with KP and Melo they can pass out or use a array of moves to score... Let Rolo set off the ball picks he's really good at it .. Hence why Wesley Matthews had his best year shooting wide open 3's

mathews did not have all the open 3's because of Rolo's picks. Maybe that was a tiny part of it. It was mainly because of all their really good players that needed to be defended and lillards penetration.

I did not say all of his threes were open ... Just that Rolo set a lot of off the ball screens for them getting guys like Mathews and batum open looks or just space

rolo was a very good player for them.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Nalod
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12/10/2015  12:06 PM
Its funny how we are trying to figure it out when knicks 15 coaches and executives all have extensive resume' with serious credentials are either clueless or unable.

My take the league has figured out the team a bit AND the more the knicks do the more they evolve the offense perhaps they are running into "walls".
This is to be expected and one reason why I think O'Quinn was exiled to the bench. He is not progressing. If the offense is evolving and some players are not getting it does not mean they never will, its that its not happening at the moment.

Tradeing for new guys might only extend that time line out further. Its why Lance and Admunson are here. They are lower skill guys but "get it" and are playing.

Phil in his books have instances where there were seasons things never came together, or took longer. There are others that gelled right away. I'd say some things came together quickly but other things are taking longer.

ebb and flow. Its natural.
fitzfarm
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12/10/2015  12:07 PM
mreinman wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
mreinman wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:In Portland he barely got the ball on offense he was out there to set picks and grab rebounds ... Not sit in the post and facilitate the offense... The guy isn't here to find the open man.... KP or Melo should be the guy in the post while Rolo sets picks to free up Jose or AA or even KP and when the shot goes up crash the boards .... That's how Rolo did it in Portland and that's playing to his strength putbacks and picks that's his game... He's never been a post facilitator ... He's not gasol he's more of a bigger Marcus Camby... At least with KP and Melo they can pass out or use a array of moves to score... Let Rolo set off the ball picks he's really good at it .. Hence why Wesley Matthews had his best year shooting wide open 3's

mathews did not have all the open 3's because of Rolo's picks. Maybe that was a tiny part of it. It was mainly because of all their really good players that needed to be defended and lillards penetration.

I did not say all of his threes were open ... Just that Rolo set a lot of off the ball screens for them getting guys like Mathews and batum open looks or just space

rolo was a very good player for them.

Even Melo said I'm so glad I don't have to fight over his screen anymore... The guy knows how to set picks... It's one of his best qualities as a player and in our offense he barley is setting any picks ... Again in Portland he barely touched the ball on offense the majority of his points were putbacks
Knixkik
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12/10/2015  12:09 PM
fitzfarm wrote:
mreinman wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
mreinman wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:In Portland he barely got the ball on offense he was out there to set picks and grab rebounds ... Not sit in the post and facilitate the offense... The guy isn't here to find the open man.... KP or Melo should be the guy in the post while Rolo sets picks to free up Jose or AA or even KP and when the shot goes up crash the boards .... That's how Rolo did it in Portland and that's playing to his strength putbacks and picks that's his game... He's never been a post facilitator ... He's not gasol he's more of a bigger Marcus Camby... At least with KP and Melo they can pass out or use a array of moves to score... Let Rolo set off the ball picks he's really good at it .. Hence why Wesley Matthews had his best year shooting wide open 3's

mathews did not have all the open 3's because of Rolo's picks. Maybe that was a tiny part of it. It was mainly because of all their really good players that needed to be defended and lillards penetration.

I did not say all of his threes were open ... Just that Rolo set a lot of off the ball screens for them getting guys like Mathews and batum open looks or just space

rolo was a very good player for them.

Even Melo said I'm so glad I don't have to fight over his screen anymore... The guy knows how to set picks... It's one of his best qualities as a player and in our offense he barley is setting any picks ... Again in Portland he barely touched the ball on offense the majority of his points were putbacks


He's got a nice touch from 10-15 too and he's a great free throw shooter. He's a very quality center who needs to be appreciated for what he is.
crzymdups
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12/10/2015  12:18 PM
I think ROLO would be much more useful on a team that got penetration from its guards. He could receive dump off passes when the guard drew the center in the paint. He could also get offensive rebounds on missed layups.

Getting offensive rebounds on mid-range jumpers tend to be harder - the rebounds go farther out.

And ROLO is further put in a pinch because this offense asks him to make passing decisions in the pinch post. It's not what he's good at.

I think this is an example of the wrong guy for the Triangle.

I'd ditch the Triangle and go in search of a penetrating PG and run more pick and roll and ROLO would be fine.

¿ △ ?
Bonn1997
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12/10/2015  12:25 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2015  1:22 PM
crzymdups wrote:I think ROLO would be much more useful on a team that got penetration from its guards. He could receive dump off passes when the guard drew the center in the paint. He could also get offensive rebounds on missed layups.

Getting offensive rebounds on mid-range jumpers tend to be harder - the rebounds go farther out.

And ROLO is further put in a pinch because this offense asks him to make passing decisions in the pinch post. It's not what he's good at.

I think this is an example of the wrong guy for the Triangle.

I'd ditch the Triangle and go in search of a penetrating PG and run more pick and roll and ROLO would be fine.


+1
Then he'll be the efficient low double digit scorer we expected.
mreinman
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12/10/2015  12:27 PM
crzymdups wrote:I think ROLO would be much more useful on a team that got penetration from its guards. He could receive dump off passes when the guard drew the center in the paint. He could also get offensive rebounds on missed layups.

Getting offensive rebounds on mid-range jumpers tend to be harder - the rebounds go farther out.

And ROLO is further put in a pinch because this offense asks him to make passing decisions in the pinch post. It's not what he's good at.

I think this is an example of the wrong guy for the Triangle.

I'd ditch the Triangle and go in search of a penetrating PG and run more pick and roll and ROLO would be fine.

preaching to the choir

Glad some people are willing to get it.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
fitzfarm
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12/10/2015  12:28 PM
crzymdups wrote:I think ROLO would be much more useful on a team that got penetration from its guards. He could receive dump off passes when the guard drew the center in the paint. He could also get offensive rebounds on missed layups.

Getting offensive rebounds on mid-range jumpers tend to be harder - the rebounds go farther out.

And ROLO is further put in a pinch because this offense asks him to make passing decisions in the pinch post. It's not what he's good at.

I think this is an example of the wrong guy for the Triangle.

I'd ditch the Triangle and go in search of a penetrating PG and run more pick and roll and ROLO would be fine.

YES! Who that's on the trading block... Kemba? Lawson? Or bring up someone in the d league?
Nalod
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12/10/2015  1:44 PM
crzymdups wrote:I think ROLO would be much more useful on a team that got penetration from its guards. He could receive dump off passes when the guard drew the center in the paint. He could also get offensive rebounds on missed layups.

Getting offensive rebounds on mid-range jumpers tend to be harder - the rebounds go farther out.

And ROLO is further put in a pinch because this offense asks him to make passing decisions in the pinch post. It's not what he's good at.

I think this is an example of the wrong guy for the Triangle.

I'd ditch the Triangle and go in search of a penetrating PG and run more pick and roll and ROLO would be fine.

That sounds so easy. INstall a whole new offensive schematic by a coaching staff and president that has 11 rings and is not indepth experienced with anything else so we can enhance ROLO's play because the last two weeks we went from 2 games above .500 to 3 games below 6 weeks into a season after which we won 17 games and regutted the roster with 9 new players? SOUnds like a well thought out plan!!!

Maybe instead of Just "Ditching the system and go searching for a penetrating PG" we find that PG then build around this unicorn player you so speak of!!! How is this? A Dleague player? Lets ditch Phil and all the coaches for who?

Maybe we should bring back Tyson and Felton and all will be wonderful again!!!
blkexec
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12/10/2015  2:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2015  2:13 PM
EnySpree wrote:Face it he sucks.

But he has a way of making it seem like he's dominating inside. Boxing out and sealing up the defense with zero stats to prove it.

he was given credit for helping Aldridge have his best season in Portland. Can he be given the same props for helping Kristaps out there?

How can we make things work with him around?

The problem is you can't surround Melo with slow foot players. KP is solid, but at 7'3 he's considered slow foot.....Same with Rolo and Calderon. AA is getting up there in age and injuries, so he's almost in that same category. We continue to put players around Melo will similar faults as Melo.

If Melo is not a transistion, above the rim, up and down type...........then you build a team around Melo to counter his faults. Once again, we havne't learned from the Melo and Stat pairing. Melo and Rolo is a bad combination.....both are slow and take up space. Neither of them moves around well, and they always want the ball. Melo can't throw a rock in the ocean right now.....Rolo never could.

The problem is Fisher and company only thought about defense, when creating the starting unit, because Melo is a career volume scorer. Well, that strategy has failed so far. If the team is contructed on Melo's hit or miss shot, we are doomed to fail. If this team depends on KP scoring 20 a game.....we are doomed to fail. And right now, thats how this team is constructed.

It should be contructed around the energy guys, who will open the court for the others.....DWill and Grant have up and down speed, that matches other teams athletes. Use their energy to open the floor for Melo and KP.

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Knicks1969
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12/10/2015  2:14 PM
blkexec wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Face it he sucks.

But he has a way of making it seem like he's dominating inside. Boxing out and sealing up the defense with zero stats to prove it.

he was given credit for helping Aldridge have his best season in Portland. Can he be given the same props for helping Kristaps out there?

How can we make things work with him around?

The problem is you can't surround Melo with slow foot players. KP is solid, but at 7'3 he's considered slow foot.....Same with Rolo and Calderon. AA is getting up there in age and injuries, so he's almost in that same category. We continue to put players around Melo will similar faults as Melo.

If Melo is not a transistion, above the rim, up and down type...........then you build a team around Melo to counter his faults. Once again, we havne't learned from the Melo and Stat pairing. Melo and Rolo is a bad combination.....both are slow and take up space. Neither of them moves around well, and they always want the ball. Melo can't throw a rock in the ocean right now.....Rolo never could.

The problem is Fisher and company only thought about defense, when creating the starting unit, because Melo is a career volume scorer. Well, that strategy has failed so far. If the team is contructed on Melo's hit or miss shot, we are doomed to fail. If this team depends on KP scoring 20 a game.....we are doomed to fail. And right now, thats how this team is constructed.

It should be contructed around the energy guys, who will open the court for the others.....DWill and Grant have up and down speed, that matches other teams athletes. Use their energy to open the floor for Melo and KP.

Sorry dude; KP is not slow footed::)

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
blkexec
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12/10/2015  3:06 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:
blkexec wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Face it he sucks.

But he has a way of making it seem like he's dominating inside. Boxing out and sealing up the defense with zero stats to prove it.

he was given credit for helping Aldridge have his best season in Portland. Can he be given the same props for helping Kristaps out there?

How can we make things work with him around?

The problem is you can't surround Melo with slow foot players. KP is solid, but at 7'3 he's considered slow foot.....Same with Rolo and Calderon. AA is getting up there in age and injuries, so he's almost in that same category. We continue to put players around Melo will similar faults as Melo.

If Melo is not a transistion, above the rim, up and down type...........then you build a team around Melo to counter his faults. Once again, we havne't learned from the Melo and Stat pairing. Melo and Rolo is a bad combination.....both are slow and take up space. Neither of them moves around well, and they always want the ball. Melo can't throw a rock in the ocean right now.....Rolo never could.

The problem is Fisher and company only thought about defense, when creating the starting unit, because Melo is a career volume scorer. Well, that strategy has failed so far. If the team is contructed on Melo's hit or miss shot, we are doomed to fail. If this team depends on KP scoring 20 a game.....we are doomed to fail. And right now, thats how this team is constructed.

It should be contructed around the energy guys, who will open the court for the others.....DWill and Grant have up and down speed, that matches other teams athletes. Use their energy to open the floor for Melo and KP.

Sorry dude; KP is not slow footed::)

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GoNyGoNyGo
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12/10/2015  3:24 PM
Rolo has bad hands and you cannot run the offense thru him.

The triangle needs a player that can play the elbow and make good passes. I think Seraphin has some ability to do it. Lopez is not that player.
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