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Fisher debating changes to starting lineup
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crzymdups
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12/10/2015  12:04 AM


I'm betting it's ROLO. He's looked terrible lately.

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Dagger
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12/10/2015  12:08 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2015  12:08 AM
Oh it's definitely Rolo, he looks so bad right now even in the limited minutes he plays. He was a mistake and doesn't fit what we're doing here. You can't pay a guy 14 million dollars for intangibles, Phil's worst move of the offseason IMO.
wargames
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12/10/2015  12:12 AM
crzymdups wrote:


I'm betting it's ROLO. He's looked terrible lately.

This is funny cause I was saying this to myself

I am legit wondering if the knicks need to play RoLo in that Splitter capacity as a big off the bench and as a big to play alongside KP if teams go big. I know they hyped him to be the starting C but things changed and honestly he would fit in the Splitter role as the Big Lineup C, #1 bench center.

Utah came out with small ball and toasted us from the perimeter. Fisher then took out KP and went small ball with Lance, (mostly cause KP looked awful at the start) but I wonder if

Calderon
AA
Lance
Melo
KP

should of been the lineup he stayed with. Then if necessary sub in the two guard Grant and Galloway as needed. RoLo as a backup big, Maybe D Will if they see an opponent is weak to transition and speed. Either way the knicks really need to shed a big man. O'quinn doesn't play but really the knicks have like 5 guys who can play center. There will definitely be times when playing Big will work, but not against teams that play small and can shoot relatively well from the perimeter.

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crzymdups
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12/10/2015  12:17 AM
wargames wrote:

This is funny cause I was saying this to myself

I am legit wondering if the knicks need to play RoLo in that Splitter capacity as a big off the bench and as a big to play alongside KP if teams go big. I know they hyped him to be the starting C but things changed and honestly he would fit in the Splitter role as the Big Lineup C, #1 bench center.

Utah came out with small ball and toasted us from the perimeter. Fisher then took out KP and went small ball with Lance, (mostly cause KP looked awful at the start) but I wonder if

Calderon
AA
Lance
Melo
KP

should of been the lineup he stayed with. Then if necessary sub in the two guard Grant and Galloway as needed. RoLo as a backup big, Maybe D Will if they see an opponent is weak to transition and speed. Either way the knicks really need to shed a big man. O'quinn doesn't play but really the knicks have like 5 guys who can play center. There will definitely be times when playing Big will work, but not against teams that play small and can shoot relatively well from the perimeter.

agreed. I was shocked KP was the guy he took out. he really didn't seem to have much going in this game though.

I do worry about starting KP at center over the long haul of the season this early in his career...

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nixluva
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12/10/2015  12:20 AM
I have no issue with changes to the SL, but they still need MELO to start playing MUCH better than he has.

The KP at 5 lineup with MELO at 4 and LT has been pretty good. So no reason not to try that as the SL. Doesn't solve all the problems but it could be a start.
wargames
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12/10/2015  12:23 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2015  12:24 AM
crzymdups wrote:
wargames wrote:

This is funny cause I was saying this to myself

I am legit wondering if the knicks need to play RoLo in that Splitter capacity as a big off the bench and as a big to play alongside KP if teams go big. I know they hyped him to be the starting C but things changed and honestly he would fit in the Splitter role as the Big Lineup C, #1 bench center.

Utah came out with small ball and toasted us from the perimeter. Fisher then took out KP and went small ball with Lance, (mostly cause KP looked awful at the start) but I wonder if

Calderon
AA
Lance
Melo
KP

should of been the lineup he stayed with. Then if necessary sub in the two guard Grant and Galloway as needed. RoLo as a backup big, Maybe D Will if they see an opponent is weak to transition and speed. Either way the knicks really need to shed a big man. O'quinn doesn't play but really the knicks have like 5 guys who can play center. There will definitely be times when playing Big will work, but not against teams that play small and can shoot relatively well from the perimeter.

agreed. I was shocked KP was the guy he took out. he really didn't seem to have much going in this game though.

I do worry about starting KP at center over the long haul of the season this early in his career...

Oh I agree about KP playing too much at center. It depends on the lineup. I wouldn't expect Fisher to put KP at center against the Heat, or Memphis, or the Rockets. There are still quite a few teams that the knicks need to play Big against but Utah was playing small from the start. KP could of held his own and putting lance on Hayward might of made him work harder to score.

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Knicks1969
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12/10/2015  12:32 AM
If this is true, I will stop bashing FISHER. But the correct change is to start KO at the center spot with KP at the 4. However, if he continues to play a 12 to 13 men rotation, I will go right back to bashing him
Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
fitzfarm
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12/10/2015  1:02 AM
Knicks1969 wrote:If this is true, I will stop bashing FISHER. But the correct change is to start KO at the center spot with KP at the 4. However, if he continues to play a 12 to 13 men rotation, I will go right back to bashing him

It's obvious that Rolo needs to go... But I could see fish doing something really stupid like pull KP out of the starting line up which would be stupid and fish would get eaten alive... That said I think Rolo takes a seat and Lance starts which opens up more time for d will which I like ...
clyderules
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12/10/2015  1:56 AM
We should bench Jose and Rolo.

New starting lineup should be:

Galloway
Afflalo
Melo
Porzingis
O'Quinn
herkyJerky
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12/10/2015  2:16 AM
Both RoLo and Calderon might be too much and unnecessary. One of the two, and see what happens. Personally I would go with Calderon first, even though he's been playing a bit better lately. But if you slide Calderon to the 2nd Unit, and slide Gallo up to the starters, RoLo might be able to do his job better and not be stuck out in nowhere land as often when guys goof up on their own defensive assignments.
On the other hand, O'Q is more vocal on defense than RoLo. So if you keep Calderon in the starting line-up and replace RoLo with O'Q, The Mighty might be able to vocally keep the other guys more alert when someone has goofed up his defensive assignment.
Both those guys at once might be too much, but if Fisher is going to make a change, it should be one of those two.
If it ain't broke, don't break it. - Charles 'The REAL Sir Charles' Oakley.
earthmansurfer
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12/10/2015  2:36 AM
I wonder if it was something much worse, like Fisher losing the locker room.
Everyone now is having their poor showings.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
herkyJerky
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12/10/2015  3:13 AM
Someone, I can't remember who and I'm too lazy to search through the threads, suggested that the loss to Miami might have been the catalyst to these poor showings. Personally it looks to me like it might have been the laugher of a win against Brooklyn that might have started this. It seems to me like some of the guys got too over-confident in the idea that they'll just outscore most teams they play who aren't considered elite. That kind of a mindset can foster less than inspired performances in regards to their defense. And if your jump shots aren't falling, well then you get what you got tonight against the Jazz.
If it ain't broke, don't break it. - Charles 'The REAL Sir Charles' Oakley.
gunsnewing
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12/10/2015  5:11 AM
Dagger wrote:Oh it's definitely Rolo, he looks so bad right now even in the limited minutes he plays. He was a mistake and doesn't fit what we're doing here. You can't pay a guy 14 million dollars for intangibles, Phil's worst move of the offseason IMO.

Exactly why I hated the signing. Doesn't fit. Slow, lumbering and prodding like his brother. Oh and severely overpaid 20min per game role player!
franco12
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12/10/2015  8:10 AM
clyderules wrote:We should bench Jose and Rolo.

New starting lineup should be:

Galloway
Afflalo
Melo
Porzingis
O'Quinn

This is the line up we should go with, and then Dereck Williams, Lance Thomas and Grant as your three off the bench. Solid 8 man rotation.

Lopez and Seraphin can battle to be the extra big off the bench when needed.
earthmansurfer
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12/10/2015  8:48 AM
franco12 wrote:
clyderules wrote:We should bench Jose and Rolo.

New starting lineup should be:

Galloway
Afflalo
Melo
Porzingis
O'Quinn

This is the line up we should go with, and then Dereck Williams, Lance Thomas and Grant as your three off the bench. Solid 8 man rotation.

Lopez and Seraphin can battle to be the extra big off the bench when needed.

Little chance of Gallo starting (now). And Jose is playing much better as well.
I can't imagine Lopez off the bench but I also couldn't have imagined his low minutes.
We are between a rock and a hard place.
Glad I am not coach.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
ChuckBuck
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12/10/2015  9:10 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2015  9:11 AM
Replace RoLo with Lance Thomas. Go small and put Melo at 4. See how KP fares at center a few games (though I don't want to see him get banged up and hurt).

Can't hurt at this point, and you don't want to fall too far from behind the 8th seed with no draft pick this season.
nyknickzingis
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12/10/2015  9:23 AM
The issue isn't the starting 5 it's how they're choosing to play. They're continually dumping it down low into the post and freezing. It's the worst aspect of the Triangle and NOT the purpose of the offense. You don't dump it in to Lopez and watch him. You don't just keep watching Melo pick up fouls on O trying to post up. What you need is far better team execution on O.

I think this team is lost on O, they have no idea what to do as a unit.

The move to make right now is to tweak the O so that they run less Triangle. I'm a fan of the Triangle offense and believer, but what the team needs right now is to set up the Tri spacing (Overload one side) and from there just run 2 man games with Melo/Porzingis or Calderon/Lopez or any combination of those 4 players. We need to use Melo more as a ballhandler vs posting up inside where he's drawing a lot of fouls. We don't have a 2nd ball handler next to Calderon who can draw the D. Melo can, and if Porzingis is setting screens, that's arguably one of the toughest match ups to defend in the league. Teams won't know hat to do with a Melo/Porzingis 2 man game.

If there's a change I make, it's to bring Afflalo off the bench, because that's where he is needed. He can give that 2nd unit a guy to throw the ball into to create some offense which they badly need.

I think I'd go with

Lopez/Porzingis/Melo/Vujacic/Calderon (starters only)
Porzingis/Melo/Afflalo/Galloway/Calderon (1st rotation)
Seraphin/O'Quinn/Thomas/Afflalo/Galloway (2nd unit)
Porzingis/Melo/Affalo/Galloway/Calderon (close halves)

Afflalo should be used in a 6th man type of role. Galloway should be used as backup PG until Grant gets past that rookie wall. Derrick Williams out of the rotation.

Mainly CEASE with all the post ups. If you dump it down low, the purpose is to get a quick high percentage shot off to someone who is actually good in there (Not Lopez, OTOH Afflalo is) or instead move the ball to the 2 man side of the court where they can run a S/R or some sort of 2 man game that can cause the D to adjust. The direct post ups are easy to defend, very predictable, unless you're a dominant post player, which we don't have.
EnySpree
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12/10/2015  9:25 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2015  9:27 AM
I think Seraphin needs to start with Melo and KP. Knicks have a problem scoring the ball too. Seraphin has shown good passing ability. I also want to see more KOQ and Derrick Williams off the bench.

Rolo is a side show right now. Horrible signing. He's getting paid like an all-star.

Melo is also looking like he wants to get traded. He's fighting the team aspects of the triangle. He just wants to do what he wants to do. I say let him, but on another team. NY doesn't need Melo to market the team. Winning will solve that problem

I'm getting ahead of myself, but I want to see kp, Seraphin, melo, Calderón and AA start a while before I start throwing fireballs

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nyknickzingis
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12/10/2015  9:27 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2015  9:30 AM
EnySpree wrote:I think Seraphin needs to start with Melo and KP. Knicks have a problem scoring the ball too. Seraphin has shown good passing ability. I also want to see more KOQ and Derrick Williams off the bench.

Rolo is a side show right now. Horrible signing. He's getting paid like an all-star.

Melo is also looking like he wants to get traded. He's fighting the team aspects of the triangle. He just wants to do what he wants to do. I say let him, but on another team. NY doesn't need Melo to market the team. Winning will solve that problem


The post ups increase with Seraphin. What the team needs right now is less post dumping. They don't have a Shaq or Pau Gasol who is worth consistently feeding inside. They treat their scrubs as if they are dominant post players. What our guys are failing to do is move the ball once they get the ball inside.

Melo has his flaws and is definitely shooting poorly for an all-star. BUT, he's a guy you won't get equal value for. He has a NTC, and he is 30+ coming off injuries in a slight decline. You'll get role players back. We already have role players galore.

I keep Melo, Porzingis and Calderon - move Afflalo to a 6th man role. Critical moves are to find who plays up front with Porzingis/Melo and a backcourt mate for Calderon. Don't know who those guys are - but we need to make moves for that.
blkexec
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12/10/2015  9:44 AM
franco12 wrote:
clyderules wrote:We should bench Jose and Rolo.

New starting lineup should be:

Galloway
Afflalo
Melo
Porzingis
O'Quinn

This is the line up we should go with, and then Dereck Williams, Lance Thomas and Grant as your three off the bench. Solid 8 man rotation.

Lopez and Seraphin can battle to be the extra big off the bench when needed.

My original thought was to start KP at 5.....after paying close attention last night, I don't think KP is ready. He doesn't have the decipline to hold down the 5 on the defensive end.

This lineup might be our best lineup. And some may argue bringing AA off the bench is another idea. AA seems to play better when he's the focal point on offense, with room to operate. But for now, I think KOQ or Seraphin next to KP would be ideal. KOQ is that old school no nonsence type of player we need next to KP. Also, he's not going to crowd the paint area like Rolo or Seraphin, which give Melo, KP and AA more room to operate. This will also help Galloway regain his shooting touch. He should be left open with this starting 5. Everybody can score and defend......I approve this message. But I doubt it will happen, due to Phil and Fisher's love affair of Jose.

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