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swap Galloway and Afflalo
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fishmike
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11/25/2015  11:14 AM
Galloway starts the game for defense and shooting while we establish the KP/Melo scoring tandem.

Afflalo is the featured scorer off the bench. AA still gets 30ish minutes but his scoring goes up. No reason he cant play the JR role for us. Seems like a better fit.

No real change in minutes.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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Knicks1969
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11/25/2015  11:29 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/25/2015  11:30 AM
Fishmime, are you serious? How about Galloway for Calderon? Galloway is the better defender, and he is not afraid to shoot the ball. Ask Calderon to play with the second unit where he can help groom Grant to play the point
Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
Nalod
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11/25/2015  11:30 AM
Knicks1969 wrote:Fishmime, are you serious? How about Galloway for Calderon?

Or Afflalo and Caldreon for Conley?
mreinman
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11/25/2015  11:33 AM
fishmike wrote:Galloway starts the game for defense and shooting while we establish the KP/Melo scoring tandem.

Afflalo is the featured scorer off the bench. AA still gets 30ish minutes but his scoring goes up. No reason he cant play the JR role for us. Seems like a better fit.

No real change in minutes.

I agree with this. Proposed it before Afflalo came back.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Knicks1969
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11/25/2015  11:34 AM
Nalod wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:Fishmime, are you serious? How about Galloway for Calderon?

Or Afflalo and Caldreon for Conley?

How about Nalod for a bag of Doritos?

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
fishmike
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11/25/2015  11:35 AM
Knicks1969 wrote:Fishmime, are you serious? How about Galloway for Calderon? Galloway is the better defender, and he is not afraid to shoot the ball. Ask Calderon to play with the second unit where he can help groom Grant to play the point
makes no sense... Galloway isnt really a PG, and is better off the ball. He's best at the 2 right now. Thats not broke so lets not mess with it. What is broke is the scoring in the 2nd unit and KP's emergence as a scorer has pushed AA to the 3rd scoring option. Off the bench he would be the first scoring option, playing the same minutes, getting more looks and shots.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
GustavBahler
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11/25/2015  11:44 AM
Interesting idea, the bench has been anemic lately, Afflalo would give them a boost of energy, and maybe save him for a possible playoff run. Grant havng a reliable scorer to pass to might help boost his confidence.
nychamp
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11/25/2015  12:20 PM
I like the reasoning behind the proposal. I'm just not sure that Afflalo is a dynamic enough scorer to be consistently that guy off the bench. I could see the 2nd team stagnating and not having much offensive punch. It would be nice if DWill had some defense skills and could operate comfortably in the offense because he really should be that instant offense guy off the bench. But he is far away from having the total game to be trusted with that role.
fishmike
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11/25/2015  12:26 PM
nychamp wrote:I like the reasoning behind the proposal. I'm just not sure that Afflalo is a dynamic enough scorer to be consistently that guy off the bench. I could see the 2nd team stagnating and not having much offensive punch. It would be nice if DWill had some defense skills and could operate comfortably in the offense because he really should be that instant offense guy off the bench. But he is far away from having the total game to be trusted with that role.
what does JR do much better than AA aside from shoot more?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Knicks1969
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11/25/2015  12:29 PM
The remedy to the second unit is simple; consistent minutes (20+) for:
Grant, Galloway, Williams, Lance, and KO.

At times, infuse that second unit by adding Calderon to strictly be a scorer, and rotate Seraphin and KO if KO is not effective.

Early needs to assume all of Sasha's minutes for the moment. Use just an 11 men rotation by rotating Seraphin and Early as the 11th man

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
dk7th
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11/25/2015  12:32 PM
afflalo is not in shape like galloway is. it'll take afflalo a while until he's all the way back, i figure.

galloway is also a terrific three point shooter and you need that corner three shooting ability (like fisher has in LA) to create the proper triangle spacing.

i like this idea, except that one wonders what sort of chemistry afflalo can bring to the table with grant.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Malcolm
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11/25/2015  12:33 PM
I don't think we're understanding what Fisher's idea of team psychology is. Since we don't know what he's trying to do, it's hard to evaluate it.

At the minimum (based on books by Phil Jackson), I think he's still figuring out what's he got on the team in terms of "intelligence, mindfulness, compassion, joy, competitiveness" . . . and what he can do with it.

For example, unless Williams is injured (that we don't know about), you'd think he should be playing more minutes. But he's not. Must be something that Fisher sees (in terms of overall plan) that we don't.
mreinman
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11/25/2015  12:39 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:The remedy to the second unit is simple; consistent minutes (20+) for:
Grant, Galloway, Williams, Lance, and KO.

At times, infuse that second unit by adding Calderon to strictly be a scorer, and rotate Seraphin and KO if KO is not effective.

Early needs to assume all of Sasha's minutes for the moment. Use just an 11 men rotation by rotating Seraphin and Early as the 11th man

that is a terrible lineup! I think that you need to let that go already.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Knicks1969
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11/25/2015  12:47 PM
mreinman wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:The remedy to the second unit is simple; consistent minutes (20+) for:
Grant, Galloway, Williams, Lance, and KO.

At times, infuse that second unit by adding Calderon to strictly be a scorer, and rotate Seraphin and KO if KO is not effective.

Early needs to assume all of Sasha's minutes for the moment. Use just an 11 men rotation by rotating Seraphin and Early as the 11th man

that is a terrible lineup! I think that you need to let that go already.

How is it terrible? That was our speed/fastbreak lineup when it was deployed for more than 10 minutes of play. It had athletes and dudes that could make shots. It is not a coincidence why the second unit's productivity has dropped since fisher decided to mess with that chemistry. We transitioned from fastbreak second unit to a boring half court group because of the addition of Lou and Seraphin instead KO.

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
mreinman
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11/25/2015  12:53 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:The remedy to the second unit is simple; consistent minutes (20+) for:
Grant, Galloway, Williams, Lance, and KO.

At times, infuse that second unit by adding Calderon to strictly be a scorer, and rotate Seraphin and KO if KO is not effective.

Early needs to assume all of Sasha's minutes for the moment. Use just an 11 men rotation by rotating Seraphin and Early as the 11th man

that is a terrible lineup! I think that you need to let that go already.

How is it terrible? That was our speed/fastbreak lineup when it was deployed for more than 10 minutes of play. It had athletes and dudes that could make shots. It is not a coincidence why the second unit's productivity has dropped since fisher decided to mess with that chemistry. We transitioned from fastbreak second unit to a boring half court group because of the addition of Lou and Seraphin instead KO.

Williams is a hamster, KOQ is just not that good. LT can be good at times when playing with some really good players (not koq and dwil). Grant can't shoot at all and can be serviceable when playing with other very good / smart players. Gallo can't do it all. He can hit the three at a high rate but not really gonna get many good looks with this terrible lineup.

I think that we need to mix the bench with the starters. Pulling all the starters for a terrible lineup like this is a recipe for toronto getting a better pick then they deserve.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Knicks1969
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11/25/2015  12:57 PM
mreinman wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:The remedy to the second unit is simple; consistent minutes (20+) for:
Grant, Galloway, Williams, Lance, and KO.

At times, infuse that second unit by adding Calderon to strictly be a scorer, and rotate Seraphin and KO if KO is not effective.

Early needs to assume all of Sasha's minutes for the moment. Use just an 11 men rotation by rotating Seraphin and Early as the 11th man

that is a terrible lineup! I think that you need to let that go already.

How is it terrible? That was our speed/fastbreak lineup when it was deployed for more than 10 minutes of play. It had athletes and dudes that could make shots. It is not a coincidence why the second unit's productivity has dropped since fisher decided to mess with that chemistry. We transitioned from fastbreak second unit to a boring half court group because of the addition of Lou and Seraphin instead KO.

Williams is a hamster, KOQ is just not that good. LT can be good at times when playing with some really good players (not koq and dwil). Grant can't shoot at all and can be serviceable when playing with other very good / smart players. Gallo can't do it all. He can hit the three at a high rate but not really gonna get many good looks with this terrible lineup.

I think that we need to mix the bench with the starters. Pulling all the starters for a terrible lineup like this is a recipe for toronto getting a better pick then they deserve.

I agree with mixing the bench with the starters, but I see no use for a 13 men rotation. That needs to stop. It is not allowing or promoting continuity in my opinion

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
mreinman
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11/25/2015  1:09 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:The remedy to the second unit is simple; consistent minutes (20+) for:
Grant, Galloway, Williams, Lance, and KO.

At times, infuse that second unit by adding Calderon to strictly be a scorer, and rotate Seraphin and KO if KO is not effective.

Early needs to assume all of Sasha's minutes for the moment. Use just an 11 men rotation by rotating Seraphin and Early as the 11th man

that is a terrible lineup! I think that you need to let that go already.

How is it terrible? That was our speed/fastbreak lineup when it was deployed for more than 10 minutes of play. It had athletes and dudes that could make shots. It is not a coincidence why the second unit's productivity has dropped since fisher decided to mess with that chemistry. We transitioned from fastbreak second unit to a boring half court group because of the addition of Lou and Seraphin instead KO.

Williams is a hamster, KOQ is just not that good. LT can be good at times when playing with some really good players (not koq and dwil). Grant can't shoot at all and can be serviceable when playing with other very good / smart players. Gallo can't do it all. He can hit the three at a high rate but not really gonna get many good looks with this terrible lineup.

I think that we need to mix the bench with the starters. Pulling all the starters for a terrible lineup like this is a recipe for toronto getting a better pick then they deserve.

I agree with mixing the bench with the starters, but I see no use for a 13 men rotation. That needs to stop. It is not allowing or promoting continuity in my opinion

I don't like the rotations but fisher is trying a number of things and this is the time to do that. Your issue is, is that you feel that he is messing with our playoff chances when he does this. I don't give a sh1t about the playoffs this year. I care about building a team that can compete for years.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Knicks1969
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11/25/2015  1:13 PM
mreinman wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:The remedy to the second unit is simple; consistent minutes (20+) for:
Grant, Galloway, Williams, Lance, and KO.

At times, infuse that second unit by adding Calderon to strictly be a scorer, and rotate Seraphin and KO if KO is not effective.

Early needs to assume all of Sasha's minutes for the moment. Use just an 11 men rotation by rotating Seraphin and Early as the 11th man

that is a terrible lineup! I think that you need to let that go already.

How is it terrible? That was our speed/fastbreak lineup when it was deployed for more than 10 minutes of play. It had athletes and dudes that could make shots. It is not a coincidence why the second unit's productivity has dropped since fisher decided to mess with that chemistry. We transitioned from fastbreak second unit to a boring half court group because of the addition of Lou and Seraphin instead KO.

Williams is a hamster, KOQ is just not that good. LT can be good at times when playing with some really good players (not koq and dwil). Grant can't shoot at all and can be serviceable when playing with other very good / smart players. Gallo can't do it all. He can hit the three at a high rate but not really gonna get many good looks with this terrible lineup.

I think that we need to mix the bench with the starters. Pulling all the starters for a terrible lineup like this is a recipe for toronto getting a better pick then they deserve.

I agree with mixing the bench with the starters, but I see no use for a 13 men rotation. That needs to stop. It is not allowing or promoting continuity in my opinion

I don't like the rotations but fisher is trying a number of things and this is the time to do that. Your issue is, is that you feel that he is messing with our playoff chances when he does this. I don't give a sh1t about the playoffs this year. I care about building a team that can compete for years.

Getting in the playoffs gives us a chance to win a championship. Not getting takes that away from us. I know losing for so long forced a lot of you not to believe that we have a chance, but I am one who believes on living for the moment; tomorrow is not a promise.

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
bigbasketballs
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11/25/2015  1:30 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:The remedy to the second unit is simple; consistent minutes (20+) for:
Grant, Galloway, Williams, Lance, and KO.

At times, infuse that second unit by adding Calderon to strictly be a scorer, and rotate Seraphin and KO if KO is not effective.

Early needs to assume all of Sasha's minutes for the moment. Use just an 11 men rotation by rotating Seraphin and Early as the 11th man

that is a terrible lineup! I think that you need to let that go already.

How is it terrible? That was our speed/fastbreak lineup when it was deployed for more than 10 minutes of play. It had athletes and dudes that could make shots. It is not a coincidence why the second unit's productivity has dropped since fisher decided to mess with that chemistry. We transitioned from fastbreak second unit to a boring half court group because of the addition of Lou and Seraphin instead KO.

Williams is a hamster, KOQ is just not that good. LT can be good at times when playing with some really good players (not koq and dwil). Grant can't shoot at all and can be serviceable when playing with other very good / smart players. Gallo can't do it all. He can hit the three at a high rate but not really gonna get many good looks with this terrible lineup.

I think that we need to mix the bench with the starters. Pulling all the starters for a terrible lineup like this is a recipe for toronto getting a better pick then they deserve.

I agree with mixing the bench with the starters, but I see no use for a 13 men rotation. That needs to stop. It is not allowing or promoting continuity in my opinion

I don't like the rotations but fisher is trying a number of things and this is the time to do that. Your issue is, is that you feel that he is messing with our playoff chances when he does this. I don't give a sh1t about the playoffs this year. I care about building a team that can compete for years.

Getting in the playoffs gives us a chance to win a championship. Not getting takes that away from us. I know losing for so long forced a lot of you not to believe that we have a chance, but I am one who believes on living for the moment; tomorrow is not a promise.

Am I mistaking you for the guy who wants/wanted consistent rotations no matter what the score or record?

If I remember correctly were you arguing that Fisher should have taken whatever bumps in the road came, or were you arguing there wouldn't have been any?
nychamp
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11/25/2015  1:47 PM
fishmike wrote:
nychamp wrote:I like the reasoning behind the proposal. I'm just not sure that Afflalo is a dynamic enough scorer to be consistently that guy off the bench. I could see the 2nd team stagnating and not having much offensive punch. It would be nice if DWill had some defense skills and could operate comfortably in the offense because he really should be that instant offense guy off the bench. But he is far away from having the total game to be trusted with that role.
what does JR do much better than AA aside from shoot more?

Yeah, JR doesn't do much that excites me. I wouldn't necessarily look to him as the model of what I'd want out of my sixth man, especially given the system we're currently running. His incessant jacking up shots is mind numbing. Afflalo definitely is more well rounded and a better fit for these Knicks, but I'm just not sure about him as the main volume scorer for the 2nd team. Not sure I have a better suggestion at this point.
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