nixluva wrote:It's even funnier since no one broke from the Triangle more than Kobe.

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nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:It's even funnier since no one broke from the Triangle more than Kobe.

true but I am sure that he knows what it is when he sees it.

Well obviously the Knicks aren't running the Triangle at anywhere near the level of Kobe's Lakers teams. Especially after they had spent years in the system. It's not a big deal at this stage of the teams development. It does take time to really master the system as a GROUP. Everyone has to be on the same page or it will look like a square.

or maybe they are slowly moving away from it?

don't know ... you know much more about how it looks then me but the digs on it were that it was not the most efficient offense out there (of course super duper stars can make it more efficient).

Don't want to get into a triangle argument but I hope that they are modifying the triangle adding many new features of todays game. Like you said, SA implemented a lot of MDA in their offense ...

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:It's even funnier since no one broke from the Triangle more than Kobe.

true but I am sure that he knows what it is when he sees it.

Well obviously the Knicks aren't running the Triangle at anywhere near the level of Kobe's Lakers teams. Especially after they had spent years in the system. It's not a big deal at this stage of the teams development. It does take time to really master the system as a GROUP. Everyone has to be on the same page or it will look like a square.

or maybe they are slowly moving away from it?

don't know ... you know much more about how it looks then me but the digs on it were that it was not the most efficient offense out there (of course super duper stars can make it more efficient).

Don't want to get into a triangle argument but I hope that they are modifying the triangle adding many new features of todays game. Like you said, SA implemented a lot of MDA in their offense ...

I bet this was when Williams was in.

and seraphin ... da bone heads

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:It's even funnier since no one broke from the Triangle more than Kobe.

true but I am sure that he knows what it is when he sees it.

Well obviously the Knicks aren't running the Triangle at anywhere near the level of Kobe's Lakers teams. Especially after they had spent years in the system. It's not a big deal at this stage of the teams development. It does take time to really master the system as a GROUP. Everyone has to be on the same page or it will look like a square.

or maybe they are slowly moving away from it?

don't know ... you know much more about how it looks then me but the digs on it were that it was not the most efficient offense out there (of course super duper stars can make it more efficient).

Don't want to get into a triangle argument but I hope that they are modifying the triangle adding many new features of todays game. Like you said, SA implemented a lot of MDA in their offense ...

To answer your question this is the same offense they've been running. Just making sure that the players realize that just playing basic BBall is OK. You don't have to slow down a fast break just so you can get into the Triangle sets. That's just counterproductive. You want to push and look for early offense. That's ALWAYS been part of the Triangle offense, but last year the players were so focused on the Triangle that they weren't playing ball. We saw a change when Shved came on board and was playing faster and just looking to take advantage of the defense and being aggressive. They are still running the Triangle System.

“Sometimes it’s just in the way you express what’s important, how you lay out your priorities. And I think it was difficult for all of us a year ago trying to implement a new system and a new way of playing basketball offensively. And I think in a lot of ways we allowed the conversation about the triangle to drive everybody’s mind-set,” Fisher said recently. “This year we kind of — even though our offense hasn’t changed really — what we wanted to make clear to our guys is that when we make people miss, the first objective is to go score as quickly as possible before the defense gets set. There’s no shape to that.”

“We want guys to understand that it’s OK to go down and try to score as quickly as possible. We’re not running to set up an offense, we’re running to go score,” Knicks coach Derek Fisher said. “[This] hopefully just continues to free them from the idea that we have to run the offense a certain way as opposed to just taking what the defense gives you. We’re trying to make sure they understand that.”

“Obviously, in the half court we want to run our offense. But our first thing is to push the ball, run a drag [screen], run the swing, get to the basket and attack in transition,” Grant said.

Coach Fisher believes that balancing the two philosophies is the way it should be.

“That’s obviously the way it should be,” Fisher said. “We can practice running the offense, helping guys understand where opportunities come from, where shots may lie. But at the end of the day, they’re on the floor and they’re out there as NBA players, and they should just make plays that they instinctively feel. So a player like Derrick will never really always necessarily be in the right spot [in the offense] because his instincts tell him something else.

“We have to trust that and find a balance between giving Derrick, as well as all of our players, the room to be who they are. But have some balance when it’s time … to execute as a five-man unit. We don’t want to take away his individual ability by putting him in a box.”

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:It's even funnier since no one broke from the Triangle more than Kobe.

true but I am sure that he knows what it is when he sees it.

Well obviously the Knicks aren't running the Triangle at anywhere near the level of Kobe's Lakers teams. Especially after they had spent years in the system. It's not a big deal at this stage of the teams development. It does take time to really master the system as a GROUP. Everyone has to be on the same page or it will look like a square.

or maybe they are slowly moving away from it?

don't know ... you know much more about how it looks then me but the digs on it were that it was not the most efficient offense out there (of course super duper stars can make it more efficient).

Don't want to get into a triangle argument but I hope that they are modifying the triangle adding many new features of todays game. Like you said, SA implemented a lot of MDA in their offense ...

To answer your question this is the same offense they've been running. Just making sure that the players realize that just playing basic BBall is OK. You don't have to slow down a fast break just so you can get into the Triangle sets. That's just counterproductive. You want to push and look for early offense. That's ALWAYS been part of the Triangle offense, but last year the players were so focused on the Triangle that they weren't playing ball. We saw a change when Shved came on board and was playing faster and just looking to take advantage of the defense and being aggressive. They are still running the Triangle System.

“Sometimes it’s just in the way you express what’s important, how you lay out your priorities. And I think it was difficult for all of us a year ago trying to implement a new system and a new way of playing basketball offensively. And I think in a lot of ways we allowed the conversation about the triangle to drive everybody’s mind-set,” Fisher said recently. “This year we kind of — even though our offense hasn’t changed really — what we wanted to make clear to our guys is that when we make people miss, the first objective is to go score as quickly as possible before the defense gets set. There’s no shape to that.”

“We want guys to understand that it’s OK to go down and try to score as quickly as possible. We’re not running to set up an offense, we’re running to go score,” Knicks coach Derek Fisher said. “[This] hopefully just continues to free them from the idea that we have to run the offense a certain way as opposed to just taking what the defense gives you. We’re trying to make sure they understand that.”

“Obviously, in the half court we want to run our offense. But our first thing is to push the ball, run a drag [screen], run the swing, get to the basket and attack in transition,” Grant said.

Coach Fisher believes that balancing the two philosophies is the way it should be.

“That’s obviously the way it should be,” Fisher said. “We can practice running the offense, helping guys understand where opportunities come from, where shots may lie. But at the end of the day, they’re on the floor and they’re out there as NBA players, and they should just make plays that they instinctively feel. So a player like Derrick will never really always necessarily be in the right spot [in the offense] because his instincts tell him something else.

“We have to trust that and find a balance between giving Derrick, as well as all of our players, the room to be who they are. But have some balance when it’s time … to execute as a five-man unit. We don’t want to take away his individual ability by putting him in a box.”

20 percent of their shots are long 2's (better but still 7th in the league) at only 36 percent. That and their weak 3 point shooting percentage are really hurting them (30%) but its much better than those long 2's.

This will also change a bit when you have Afflalo at full strength IMO. This team isn't really strong from 3pt range. I would never expect this team to be a top 3pt shooting team. They should get better tho. Gallo, DWill and KP have a chance to be threats from 3. Gallo is the best shooter right now but DWill and KP can improve from that range. If Jose can get back into his grove that's another 3pt shooter. There's potential for them to improve.

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:i'm tired of the back and forth about the triangle. i see it being run 20% or less of the time. and sunday they hardly ran it at all.

Perhaps you could explain what you mean by that? Most of the time the team is coming down court they are starting from a Triangle 2 guard alignment with one guard pushing and the other guard just behind to receive the Lag pass. Of course they will setup in Half court based on Triangle principles and depending on what the defense presents. The spacing is usually typical Triangle spacing. The only wrinkle is a Drag Screen at the top but that too is not new to the Triangle.

much of the time the defensive strategy is pressuring the first pass into the post so the ball is getting swung to the other side breaking down into a pick and roll or pick and pop. do you notice how few shots are being taken from the corners? i recall calderon taking maybe one on sunday. the spacing for the triangle has not been very good at all, and without the proper spacing the triangle is more easily defended. s it's no wonder you hear fisher saying he wants to push the ball before the defense has time to set, i would too given how lousy our spacing is so much of the time.

you have the resources to break down the offensive possessions, right? or that russian kid does, no? call me crazy... please educate me.

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:i'm tired of the back and forth about the triangle. i see it being run 20% or less of the time. and sunday they hardly ran it at all.

Perhaps you could explain what you mean by that? Most of the time the team is coming down court they are starting from a Triangle 2 guard alignment with one guard pushing and the other guard just behind to receive the Lag pass. Of course they will setup in Half court based on Triangle principles and depending on what the defense presents. The spacing is usually typical Triangle spacing. The only wrinkle is a Drag Screen at the top but that too is not new to the Triangle.

much of the time the defensive strategy is pressuring the first pass into the post so the ball is getting swung to the other side breaking down into a pick and roll or pick and pop. do you notice how few shots are being taken from the corners? i recall calderon taking maybe one on sunday. the spacing for the triangle has not been very good at all, and without the proper spacing the triangle is more easily defended. s it's no wonder you hear fisher saying he wants to push the ball before the defense has time to set, i would too given how lousy our spacing is so much of the time.

you have the resources to break down the offensive possessions, right? or that russian kid does, no? call me crazy... please educate me.

Aside from pushing the ball and looking for early offense which is the 1st step in the Triangle, the most recognizable part of the offense is the side Triangle but really that is only a small part of the entire offense. Most people can't recognize the rest of the offense. They don't know Blind Pig or any of the reads that lead to pin downs to free up shooters.

Once the ball is reversed most people are lost at that point and can't tell you what other parts of the Triangle are being run. They don't know the other actions in the offense so it looks like they aren't even running the Triangle when they are. Remember the Triangle isn't just a play it's an entire system.

The Triangle's spacing creates that overload on one side of the floor and if the Knicks get faster at execution they can take more advantage of the space on the other side. They are still a bit slow and this allows a defense to recover. The speed is what is missing right now. That will come in time after TONS of reps. They'll develop chemistry and eye contact can lead to more use of other cuts and passes that are available but not often used.