[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Opener - Starters 49, Bench 73
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
earthmansurfer
Posts: 24005
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2005
Member: #858
Germany
10/29/2015  3:20 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/29/2015  3:31 AM
First, congrats for an opening night win, a convincing one. Last time that happened?
14 games in the NBA, and I see 1 (Boston) other team that had the bench outplay the starters. Phoenix's bench outplayed the starters in a loss, more typical.
Not meaning to create a distraction, but this is exactly a continuation of the pre-season numbers.
Bench is outplaying the starters (albeit MOSTLY against other benches).

10 assists for the starters vs. 14 for the bench
22 rebounds vs 27

Look at the plus/minus

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
AUTOADVERT
franco12
Posts: 34069
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 2/19/2004
Member: #599
USA
10/29/2015  7:05 AM
they clearly had more energy.

I hope Fisher isn't so locked in to his starters that he won't change things.

Our 2nd unit played well, no matter who they were matched up against.

They saved us from being down in the 1st quarter.

He is going to have to juggle the line ups.

Move Calderon out, and either Gallo or Grant in.

And then maybe move Lopez & his big contract to the 2nd unit, and O'Quinn in.
StarksEwing1
Posts: 32671
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/28/2012
Member: #4451
10/29/2015  8:05 AM
Our bench is really deep which is important. I think Derrick Williams has found his calling as a bigtime scorer off the bench.
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
10/29/2015  8:26 AM
A starting lineup consisting of Lopez, Calderon & Vujevic pretty much guarantees that you will be in a hole from the getgo
StarksEwing1
Posts: 32671
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/28/2012
Member: #4451
10/29/2015  8:46 AM
gunsnewing wrote:A starting lineup consisting of Lopez, Calderon & Vujevic pretty much guarantees that you will be in a hole from the getgo
Especially Calderon what a brutal move that as by Phil. Hell I would have been happy just getting early from that deal. now we are stuck with calderon for 2 years because nobody will take that contract
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
10/29/2015  9:00 AM
At least Sasha and Lopez play good D. Calderon is a complete zero at this point
dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
10/29/2015  9:23 AM
you guys can't be serious! we won by 25 points. if it ain't broke don't fix it. let our bench destroy the opponents' benches.
knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
10/29/2015  9:28 AM
dk7th wrote:you guys can't be serious! we won by 25 points. if it ain't broke don't fix it. let our bench destroy the opponents' benches.

Won't work against good teams and your team will wear itself out. Remember when Woodson was starting Felton, Brewer, Melo, Kmart & Tyson and we'd be down doubk digits before you got settled on your couch?
newyorknewyork
Posts: 30169
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
10/29/2015  9:53 AM
Its good that Melo doesn't have pressure to score points. If he is shooting well and Affalo can actually get on the court. Then the starting unit would be okay offensively.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
newyorknewyork
Posts: 30169
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
10/29/2015  9:55 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/29/2015  9:57 AM
When your guard play plays the way Gallo, Vujacic, Grant played combining for 56fg%, 37pts, 11ast, 7stls, 5 3s, 0 TOs. Your going to win a good amount of games.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
10/29/2015  9:58 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:Its good that Melo doesn't have pressure to score points. If he is shooting well and Affalo can actually get on the court. Then the starting unit would be okay offensively.

Yea Affalo will help spread the floor offensively but he is still a weak link defensivel and we know how these speedy young PG's like to abuse spout slow footed PGs. Being forced to watch every opposing PG have career games against Felton for all those years was brutal and very tasking on our bigs
arkrud
Posts: 32217
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
10/29/2015  10:09 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/29/2015  10:10 AM
This is a much up thing.
Calderon can be replaced in 2 min if needed.
Most likely he will be in foul trouble anyways in no time as it happened yesterday.
Fish and Co will be really tested on how they can fell the game.
Melo should stop shooting bad shots and wait for his legs to come back.
His shorts early in the clock and 3-point defense was really bad.
He need to play 20-25 min tops or he can get hurt in no-time.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
WaltLongmire
Posts: 27623
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5843
10/29/2015  10:23 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/29/2015  10:23 AM
Have to remember that the 2nd unit, in theory, is facing another team's bench, or perhaps a winded first unit. This can factor into results.

Difficult to compare starters vs bench because of this...and there is also some overlap starters/bench players during any game.

Things will get sorted out as the season moves on and team chemistry evolves, and you hope that Fisher will maximize our chances of winning by putting the best combinations of players together, even if that means breaking a substitution pattern for a particular opponent.

Does not matter to me who starts or finishes a game. The players who are performing will get the most minutes.

We also have a ridiculously deep team, IMO, so Fisher has a lot of flexibility when deciding who to put on the floor.


Just can't look at one game and make final determinations about the optimum lineup and rotation for the team.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189
10/29/2015  10:49 AM
can we try another game before we switch it all up?
so here is what phil is thinking ....
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
10/29/2015  11:00 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/29/2015  11:04 AM
mreinman wrote:can we try another game before we switch it all up?

What shake up? Grant for Calderon will only make them better. Especially defensively when we play good teams. Or you think Grant and Galloway's chemistry is too good to mess with after beating up on a depleted middle of the road Bucks team? Affalo is going to start at SG once he's healthy eventhougH Sasha played well doing all the little things to win. He will be valuable off the bench but for him to get minutes Galloway is going to have to play some PG. Grant, Affalo, Melo, KP & Lolez gives us a balanced starting lineup and bench. Very exciting. Both units can score and defend at nearly every position which I'd imagine is the guy of team Phil envisioned.
mreinman
Posts: 37827
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/14/2010
Member: #3189
10/29/2015  11:15 AM
gunsnewing wrote:
mreinman wrote:can we try another game before we switch it all up?

What shake up? Grant for Calderon will only make them better. Especially defensively when we play good teams. Or you think Grant and Galloway's chemistry is too good to mess with after beating up on a depleted middle of the road Bucks team? Affalo is going to start at SG once he's healthy eventhougH Sasha played well doing all the little things to win. He will be valuable off the bench but for him to get minutes Galloway is going to have to play some PG. Grant, Affalo, Melo, KP & Lolez gives us a balanced starting lineup and bench. Very exciting. Both units can score and defend at nearly every position which I'd imagine is the guy of team Phil envisioned.

I want to be patient. Of course if Jose continues to play like he did last night, he will be replaced and may get zero minuts.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
ChuckBuck
Posts: 28851
Alba Posts: 11
Joined: 1/3/2012
Member: #3806
USA
10/29/2015  11:18 AM
Until we get blown out on a regular basis, don't mess with a winning formula.

Stick to the slow and olds in the starting lineup. Let's see how we do against ATL tonight, and take it on a game by game basis, before switching things up.
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
10/29/2015  11:25 AM
gunsnewing wrote:
dk7th wrote:you guys can't be serious! we won by 25 points. if it ain't broke don't fix it. let our bench destroy the opponents' benches.

Won't work against good teams and your team will wear itself out. Remember when Woodson was starting Felton, Brewer, Melo, Kmart & Tyson and we'd be down doubk digits before you got settled on your couch?

They won 54 games that season.

¿ △ ?
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
10/29/2015  12:18 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2013.html?mobile=false
Look at the stretch from Dec 17 - March 17 after the great 1&-5 start. We were a sub .500 ball club. Constantly digging out of double digit deficits early in the game. Kidd was gassed. Brewer was eventually replaced by JR, Shump & Kmart. Kurt Thomas saved our season in Utah. He inspired the team to finish strong. Albeit it was against some bad East teams and teams trying to get healthy for the playoffs. Melo was able to beat up on those teams playing the 4 but we knew it was fools gold and he would take take a pounding in the playoffs from teams like Chicago & Indiana because he had his worst games and our worst games collectively against those big physical teams

We need offense/defense balance in both units. This time we won't be pushed around as easily with our depth in height width and butt girth
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
10/29/2015  12:40 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/29/2015  12:43 PM
mreinman wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
mreinman wrote:can we try another game before we switch it all up?

What shake up? Grant for Calderon will only make them better. Especially defensively when we play good teams. Or you think Grant and Galloway's chemistry is too good to mess with after beating up on a depleted middle of the road Bucks team? Affalo is going to start at SG once he's healthy eventhougH Sasha played well doing all the little things to win. He will be valuable off the bench but for him to get minutes Galloway is going to have to play some PG. Grant, Affalo, Melo, KP & Lolez gives us a balanced starting lineup and bench. Very exciting. Both units can score and defend at nearly every position which I'd imagine is the guy of team Phil envisioned.

I want to be patient. Of course if Jose continues to play like he did last night, he will be replaced and may get zero minuts.

Yea and I forgot to mention how Grant is capable of breaking down the defense and creating open looks for himself and the other 4 starters. Which is what the other 31 starters PG's are capable of doing. Like I said in the game thread yesterday I give Calderon 2 games before Grant starts. Maybe not even. He might bench Calderon tonight.

And yes I'm not even comfortable giving Calderon backup minutes. I rather get a distributing/defensive/speedy backup PG or see if Galloway can handle it for now that way Sasha is in the rotation over Calderon
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Opener - Starters 49, Bench 73
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy