Finestrg wrote:Here's the article: http://nypost.com/2015/10/14/why-thanasis-antetokounmpos-knicks-days-may-be-numbered/

Despite being Phil Jackson’s second-round pick, Thanasis Antetokounmpo never got a chance at Knicks training camp last fall. Jackson decided against signing him, but convinced the Greek forward to bypass a lucrative deal in Europe to play for $25,000 in the D-League with Westchester.

Now, even though he has signed to a partially guaranteed deal, Antetokounmpo still has not gotten a chance to show the havoc he can create on defense through the first three preseason games. The 6-foot-7 defensive specialist and brother of the Greek Freak, Giannis Antetokounmpo, has not played in two of the games and played the final two minutes of another.

Though he is a slight favorite to land on the roster as 15th man, it’s no given. The Post has learned Antetokounmpo settled for the same $75,000 guarantee as undrafted rookie free agents Darion Atkins, Wesley Saunders and point guard Travis Trice. Antetokounmpo has a non-guaranteed second year attached to the pact.

His agents already have said he will not play in the D-League again if not part of the Knicks’ roster. Antetokounmpo said he hopes, if cut, another NBA team will show interest, and Milwaukee comes to mind. Giannis, a budding All-Star, plays for the Bucks, and their parents moved from Greece to Milwaukee. His agents have also spoken to European clubs.

“First off, hopefully things works out here,’’ Thanasis told The Post. “If they don’t, hopefully another NBA team. That’s the first goal. And after that, we’ll see. Hopefully everything goes well. I don’t want to think about it now. I can control what I can control — being positive and optimistic.’’

Coach Derek Fisher said with the Knicks playing a back-to-back on Friday and Saturday against Boston and Charlotte, Antetokounmpo, who has a raw offensive game, could see time.

“He’s shown what we’ve always seen from him — a lot of energy, intensity,’’ Fisher said. “He’s improved as a basketball player. Our roster is constructed in a way it’s tough to break through. Cleanthony Early has gotten better. It makes it rough to find minutes at the forward position.’’

Early, Jackson’s first-ever draft pick as 34th selection in 2014, has come back in better shape, looks quicker and less tentative as he tries to erase a dreadful, injury-plagued rookie year.

“I thought I knew more than I did,’’ Early said at training camp at West Point. “But time definitely gave me a little more wisdom and knowledge.’’

First off, they can't possibly F this up. He's gotta be the 15 guy. No question about it. If he is and they guarantee the money for the rest of the year, then he'll agree to go to Westchester and they can continue developing him. I hope that's the thinking. I know we'd have to evaluate who shakes loose from other teams soon but we've invested time and money with TA already---to get a crack at a better version of Gerald Wilkins worse case/Andre Iguodala best case (how useful was this guy in the Finals?), I wanna see this through now. I honestly believe the Knicks will be rewarded in the end--this guy can play. My thing with TA -- I'd argue we could use this guy right now. According to the article, Fisher confirmed TA has been showing his trademark hustle and intensity and that overall "he's show improvement," which kinda dispels the idea that he may not be bringin' it in practice. I didn't think that was true anyway--there's no way this guy would be doggin' it in practice. He's an 'all out' guy. Just not that type of player...Just seems that Fisher's overlooking him by grouping him in with the few others that are destined for the DL (Atkins, Saunders, Trice, maybe DaJuan Summers). I think that may be a mistake. They obviously like Early and have him ahead of TA, but why look at TA exclusively as a SF? I'd like to see what he can do at SG myself. With Afflalo out and Vujacic not shooting the ball well, I think this is a GREAT opportunity to see what he can do at the 2. If D-Will and Early are in the mix at backup 3, let's see TA at the 2--that's where he can get some minutes. Give him an opportunity to outplay Sasha! Sasha's already on the team--we've known that since they got him. I mean if all Sasha's gonna be, though, is an unreliable volume shooter with diminished skills, ****, TA's better than that. Thanasis brings standout athleticism and defense. No other player on the roster equals him in these areas in fact, maybe not even D-Will when it comes to athleticism. Now we're reading that Fish wants to see them push the pace and look for easy buckets (http://espn.go.com/blog/newyork-knicks/post/_/id/63216/fisher-wants-knicks-to-push-the-pace). Perfect. All the more reason why he should be given a chance. I'd LOVE to see TA out there with that 2nd unit -- Grant, D-Will, etc.. He'd shine with those guys playing a quicker pace. Hopefully Fish keeps his word and we can finally see TA get some burn in the back to back coming up Fri and Sat. I think his upside/impact potential could be much higher than Sasha Vujacic. Sasha got a look already, TA's turn now.

Here is my take. Berman looking for something to write about and this is what he ends up with cause he's got nothing else. The title is "TA's numbers may be numbered" and yet he offers nothing to support that outside of no playing time in 3 preseason games.

But this seemingly can be explained: Sasha has been in the starting lineup cause of AA injury and Grant/Gallo have been getting playing time together, and a good bit of it, cause that second unit is gelling and playing well and is evolving and getting a good cohesion run. That's a good thing, you don't go messing that up just to throw a guy in there like TA, dude has got to earn it.

I'd LOVE to see TA finally put it together and be part of the second unit of run and pressure and suffocate the opponent.

Guy just has to be able to shoot the ball consistently, and so far this has not been the case. Thought I read that we made the DL coaching change because the Knicks were not happy with Thanasis' development last year.

I do feel bad for him, but he brings a limited set of skills to the table at this point, despite his immense athletic ability.

There is no way that he wouldn't be getting more time on the floor if they thought he deserved it...makes no sense from a team perspective.

The fact that we drafted him and are not giving him playing times says volumes about how the Knicks now see him at this point.

Would love to see him emerge as a rotational player, but if not, I hope he finds a spot on another team. Doubt that we could get a #2 for him at this point if we found a team in the NBA who likes him.

As for TA bringing more than Vujacic I think that is possible but not likely. Sasha has VASTLY more knowledge of the Triangle than TA and he has vet experience and obviously can shoot the ball much better. When it comes to the TRUST factor, I see no way they'd trust TA more than a guy who has history in the system. I do think there will come a point where TA will have a chance to show how his energy and defense can help the team and then it will be a much tougher decision than it is now.

It would be nice to either keep him, or trade him perhaps for a future 2nd rounder?

nixluva wrote:

TPercy wrote:He must really be F'ing up in practice for him to be playing as a end of the bench guy in Summer League and hardly seeing a lick of playing time in preseason even when we are up by a bunch. Oh well, if it dosen't work out there are still options out there.

There are simply a lot of players who are ahead of TA development wise. Nothing really to see here. He's got to keep working on his game and be ready when his time comes. I think they are concentrating on the guys who are in the rotation more. They want the chemistry to be on point when the season starts.

Anyway, there is still many games left before regular season, so he might get some significant minutes. If he dosen't and things don't, Philly still has some decent guards who could get cut that would make really good end of the bench guys on this team.

GustavBahler wrote:From what little I've seen of Thanasis, its like watching a very athletic chicken with its head cut off.

Which is slightly better than Early.

TPercy wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TPercy wrote:He must really be F'ing up in practice for him to be playing as a end of the bench guy in Summer League and hardly seeing a lick of playing time in preseason even when we are up by a bunch. Oh well, if it dosen't work out there are still options out there.

There are simply a lot of players who are ahead of TA development wise. Nothing really to see here. He's got to keep working on his game and be ready when his time comes. I think they are concentrating on the guys who are in the rotation more. They want the chemistry to be on point when the season starts.

That is a logical and positive way of looking at it. He was the guy I was rooting for the most( behind Ricky Ledo) to make it. It really let me down that he appeared to make no improvements on his handle or shot.

Anyway, there is still many games left before regular season, so he might get some significant minutes. If he dosen't and things don't, Philly still has some decent guards who could get cut that would make really good end of the bench guys on this team.

I would welcome TA as a defensive stopper, but I remember him amassing several fouls thru out the Summer League. Not a good look.

martin wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

Knixkik wrote:At this point i am not quite sure what he bring to the table. He is definitely not a better Gerald Wallace or have a shot to be a Iguadala type, he doesn't have any real NBA skill that i saw in summer league. Melo, DWill, and Early offer much more at the 3, and that's about all you can carry at 1 position, but i hope they keep him around and he agrees to continue to play for the Dleague team. But hustle guys are a dime a dozen in the league.

That's fine. I think he's more than a hustle guy. He's got skills offensively that many are overlooking and he has the potential to be a lockdown defender. Big-time NBA athlete too...Our big hurdle from the next several years will be trying to get past LeBron James. I'd love to have a player on board like TA to play James at different times throughout a game, a series, etc.. That could be a huge plus. Andre Iguodala was the Finals MVP -- he got that by having an impact offensively and shadowing James all over the court defensively. That's something I could envision TA doing for us against the Cavs...And I said Gerald Wilkins, not Wallace, although Wallace is an interesting comparison that I hadn't thought of. I like that comparison the more I think about it -- athletic shot-blocking wing that could score it a little...Why couldn't he be as good as or better than Wilkins, Wallace or even Iguodala?? Fish is right when he hints at this being a numbers game right now. That's true. Too bad we still have Calderon -- all this guy really is is a place warmer for when Grant gets in the game. Calderon's the superfluous piece right now. If Jose found himself out of the rotation, we could eventually go Grant/Galloway at the point, Afflalo/TA at the 2 with Calderon and Sasha relegated to 3rd string/spot duty. Would that be a bad thing?? Ideally, that's what I'd eventually like to see. Let's see if that happens. In the meantime, guys have to go out there and earn it, I get that. Grant hasn't shot the ball well but his play in other areas has been great. I'd like to see TA afforded the same opportunity. Sasha hasn't shot the ball well, hasn't really done much of anything else either. Let's see TA get a crack at playing some 2G now. Let's see if he can bring more to the table than Vujacic. This is preseason -- not too much to ask. Fish should want to find out.

Offensive skills? He could barely shoot in the D-League. How did you come up with the overlooking offensive skills part?

Finestrg wrote:Grant hasn't shot the ball well but his play in other areas has been great. I'd like to see TA afforded the same opportunity. Sasha hasn't shot the ball well, hasn't really done much of anything else either. Let's see TA get a crack at playing some 2G now. Let's see if he can bring more to the table than Vujacic. This is preseason -- not too much to ask. Fish should want to find out.

Here's the thing, I am guessing that he is getting a shot in practice, and he's not bringing it. The preseason is for Grant and Gallo and KP to get there feet wet and gel and for the second unit to gel, not for us to be able to see all 15 guys.

He may not have shown the consistency that many were looking for, but he still had many good moments where he contributed offensively in a big way the past couple of years in the DL/SL, including that impact game against MIL in Vegas where he scored 17 pts on 7-7 from the field, one of the last games he had any kind of significant playing time. I don't agree with the 'chicken with his head cut off' stuff at all. That's selling this dude well short. Take a look at some of these clips and tell me if this looks like a guy who can't contribute a lick offensively -- I just don't see it:

In clip 1, 1:17 on is all the SL game against Milwaukee

He shows some bonafide offensive potential here. Think back to players like Iman Shumpert at G-Tech and Gerald Wilkins in the 80s/90s. Shumpert showed potential and a good shooting form but the results just weren't there in college. Still, we drafted him and most were excited about his potential. Why can't we give TA the same chance?? What's the difference? Shump turned out to be a guy who may have reached his ceiling already, a guy we gave up on. I think TA could be a better overall player than Shumpert. Remember G Wilkins -- this dude was always one of my favorite players, yet let's be honest -- he was a mixed bag offensively and that's being polite. Gerald really struggled shooting the ball most nights and had a rather awkward shooting form. Who has better shooting technique, TA or Gerald Wilkins? The answer is TA. I think TA shows much more promise as a jump-shooter over Wilkins. Yet Wilkins was a solid contributor at both ends. I honestly see a similar albeit better talent in TA...And remember, whatever this guy could give us offensively would be gravy anyway -- it's his hustle, his intensity, his grit, his ability to get out and run the floor in transition like a gazelle (and finish strong) along with his stellar defense that could set him apart. We'll see, man. I watched plenty of Westchester games last year -- I know what I saw from him. I think this is a legit topic to bring up. Let's see how TA looks with that 2nd unit, let's see if he can have a positive impact offensively and defensively. I think he could. If Sasha's not gonna do much else than toss up bricks, I don't really care how much time he's spent in the triangle perviously--he won't help us. This guy looked shot a few years ago with the Nets. If Sasha V. isn't knocking down shots consistently, how valuable is he really? If he was shooting well, OK, then I can understand telling TA to wait his turn. Maybe in practice, on the sidelines helping the younger guys, etc., maybe that's where Sasha can still have an impact--but in the games, he needs to knock down shots otherwise, give me a player capable of having more impact. More than half the guys on this roster have no triangle experience. ZERO. What does that really mean? Nothing. This style Fisher wants to play isn't even 100% triangle anyway. It seems to me he's implementing a system which caters to each player's strengths. Look at D-Will -- he's come out and said he's "messing up" and struggling with some of this system's concepts, yet he's still having a positive impact. I think TA brings a lot to the table--I wanna see him get a chance.