BRIGGS wrote:The Knicks are built like a halfcourt 90s team albeit we have Carmelo and most other teams dont. i dont care about pre season so much but we will find out right away what this team can or cant do. Im not sure we have enough speed as our C and PG and very slow.

I see it different. I believe we have both. Our starting lineup is built for half court....true. But our bench lineup is built for speed.

Grant
Galo
Early
Melo
D.will
KP
Aflalo

Any combination of these guys can run with most nba players. Grant sets the tempo with his end to end speed. We have a good mix of youths and vets. But I understand your concern. Its up to fisher on his lineup combination. And frankly i dont trust fishers lineup strategies. I believe your PG sets the tempo and we have a half court and a speed type point in Grant, who could be the starter by mid season.

I really really like where this team is going and am shocked we got so much better so quick. Having Melo with a great supporting
cast (and the 2 rooks), I think, is going to shock people with how well we play.

I can't really complain. I wanted Rolo over the other two centers, just on defense alone. I think we are building something
to top off this coming FA period.We are in a GREAT situation.

blkexec wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:The Knicks are built like a halfcourt 90s team albeit we have Carmelo and most other teams dont. i dont care about pre season so much but we will find out right away what this team can or cant do. Im not sure we have enough speed as our C and PG and very slow.

I see it different. I believe we have both. Our starting lineup is built for half court....true. But our bench lineup is built for speed.

Grant
Galo
Early
Melo
D.will
KP
Aflalo

Any combination of these guys can run with most nba players. Grant sets the tempo with his end to end speed. We have a good mix of youths and vets. But I understand your concern. Its up to fisher on his lineup combination. And frankly i dont trust fishers lineup strategies. I believe your PG sets the tempo and we have a half court and a speed type point in Grant, who could be the starter by mid season.

I agree. I think Grant will eventually take over the position permanently at some point if he doesn't win the job outright when camp breaks. I just don't consider Calderon a full-time solution anymore...Wish we at least replaced Larkin with another fellow fast-paced PG we could go to for stretches along with the quicker players you mentioned--Phil and co. would just turn around and say "the system doesn't call for it" which is an answer I personally don't care for at all. I think if you have an opportunity to get quicker, skillful players, you do it, regardless of the system you're trying to run. Anyone with an open mind can learn the triangle, but you can't teach a guy like Jose Calderon to get out and run and get easy baskets in transition or to defend quicker players. That's the difference. Plus, like I've mentioned before, what if Phil either packs it in early or gets canned at some point? In that case, I wouldn't want to be saddled with "triangle-only" players. In fact, I'd like there to be the least amount of triangle-specific players left over in the event Phil and the coaching staff depart at some point...Hey, at least we did get Grant which I think was a great pickup--I give Phil a lot of credit there. THJ is no better than any number of wings you'd find in the DL -- Grant, however, is a skilled PG with youth, size and grit. Still can't believe we were able to turn that guy into Jerian Grant... Still, it would've been nice to have that 1 additional skilled facilitator on the roster that can also play up-tempo. If there's one thing missing on this roster, this might be it...Galloway is really all we have behind Grant that comes close to fitting the bill and he's not really even a PG but I guess he'll have to do. I don't think Galloway's a guy you look at to make decisions with the ball in his hands for stretches at a time...Don't mean to sound like a broken record but it really would've been nice to have Shved back in the fold -- he would've supplied good depth at both positions. He was real good with the ball in his hands and he excelled in this system, plus he would've given us good depth behind Afflalo at the 2 as well. Phil mentioned his lack of physical strength--hard to believe that the reason he wasn't retained for room exception-type money was because he wasn't strong enough and didn't add enough strength in the off-season thus far. I mean he clearly wasn't strong enough when we traded for him, right? Didn't stop him from having a positive impact though, right? Plus, strength can always be acquired--I think if they wanted to add strength with Shved--why couldn't the Knicks start that process with him after he re-signed? Look at Shved man--that dude hasn't lifted a weight in his life and his off-season was undoubtedly filled with eventful things that took up a good part of his time -- trips back and forth to Russia I'm sure, planning a marriage, getting married, etc.. When you get right down to it though--how long would it honestly take Shved to add 5-10 lbs. of core strength if he started right now? The off-season's not even over--when does NBA training camp officially start, September 15?? That's a little under a month from now and then add a good month and a half before the season starts. Ahh, I digress... Still think the roster's shy 1 skilled/facilitating guard. We'll see how it goes..

Man, I can watch these videos and cry. Shved should still be a Knick. Insane that he wasn't considered a priority to bring back...He would've been a nice player to have in the mix, too good a component (one that worked here) to just let walk out the door. Look at what he did with the motley crew we had last year to close out the season -- now think about what he could do with this upgraded roster. He never even played with Carmelo Anthony...Does this look like a guy that doesn't have enough physicality or skill for the NBA?? This guy drives the ball more often and finishes better than any guard we've had here recently--JR, THJ, Shumpert, Calderon, and that's not even mentioning his ability to see the floor/handle/orchestrate, things he far and away excels at over these guys as well. I'd even go so far as to call Alexey a true PG instead of a combo., that's how sharp I think his skills are in these areas. I couldn't think of a better reserve guard to have for this system.. It's nuts -- I give Phil an A for targeting and getting this guy and an F- for letting him go (and not filling the spot with a comparable player, not counting Grant -- the plan should've been to feature Grant AND Shved in the same rotation)...Compare Shved to several key bench guards around the league: Shaun Livingston, Matthew Dellavedova, Kirk Hinrich, Jeremy Lin (what Lin's become) -- you mean to tell me that Shved doesn't compare favorably to these guys physically, skill-wise? I think he does. This guy was playing the best ball of his career by far for us and I think he only would've grown further as a player and become even more effective had we chose to keep him here.. I'll have to see more of Wes Saunders before formulating a final opinion but right now just looking at video, I think it's safe to say that he won't come close to supplying the overall impact Shved had...Losing Shved, esp. if you believe the BS reason Phil gave, is real tough, man.. I know improving the frontcourt was a top priority, and rightly so, but getting Shved back should've always remained part of the plan--if that meant limited minutes for Galloway, so be it and if that meant no RoLo and instead going a different, more cost-effective route at C (Alexis Ajinca?), I would've been completely fine with that. RoLo's a nice player--I just don't see him as a $13 - 13.5mm/yr player.

Finestrg wrote:

blkexec wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:The Knicks are built like a halfcourt 90s team albeit we have Carmelo and most other teams dont. i dont care about pre season so much but we will find out right away what this team can or cant do. Im not sure we have enough speed as our C and PG and very slow.

I see it different. I believe we have both. Our starting lineup is built for half court....true. But our bench lineup is built for speed.

Grant
Galo
Early
Melo
D.will
KP
Aflalo

Any combination of these guys can run with most nba players. Grant sets the tempo with his end to end speed. We have a good mix of youths and vets. But I understand your concern. Its up to fisher on his lineup combination. And frankly i dont trust fishers lineup strategies. I believe your PG sets the tempo and we have a half court and a speed type point in Grant, who could be the starter by mid season.

I agree. I think Grant will eventually take over the position permanently at some point if he doesn't win the job outright when camp breaks. I just don't consider Calderon a full-time solution anymore...Wish we at least replaced Larkin with another fellow fast-paced PG we could go to for stretches along with the quicker players you mentioned--Phil and co. would just turn around and say "the system doesn't call for it" which is an answer I personally don't care for at all. I think if you have an opportunity to get quicker, skillful players, you do it, regardless of the system you're trying to run. Anyone with an open mind can learn the triangle, but you can't teach a guy like Jose Calderon to get out and run and get easy baskets in transition or to defend quicker players. That's the difference. Plus, like I've mentioned before, what if Phil either packs it in early or gets canned at some point? In that case, I wouldn't want to be saddled with "triangle-only" players. In fact, I'd like there to be the least amount of triangle-specific players left over in the event Phil and the coaching staff depart at some point...Hey, at least we did get Grant which I think was a great pickup--I give Phil a lot of credit there. THJ is no better than any number of wings you'd find in the DL -- Grant, however, is a skilled PG with youth, size and grit. Still can't believe we were able to turn that guy into Jerian Grant... Still, it would've been nice to have that 1 additional skilled facilitator on the roster that can also play up-tempo. If there's one thing missing on this roster, this might be it...Galloway is really all we have behind Grant that comes close to fitting the bill and he's not really even a PG but I guess he'll have to do. I don't think Galloway's a guy you look at to make decisions with the ball in his hands for stretches at a time...Don't mean to sound like a broken record but it really would've been nice to have Shved back in the fold -- he would've supplied good depth at both positions. He was real good with the ball in his hands and he excelled in this system, plus he would've given us good depth behind Afflalo at the 2 as well. Phil mentioned his lack of physical strength--hard to believe that the reason he wasn't retained for room exception-type money was because he wasn't strong enough and didn't add enough strength in the off-season thus far. I mean he clearly wasn't strong enough when we traded for him, right? Didn't stop him from having a positive impact though, right? Plus, strength can always be acquired--I think if they wanted to add strength with Shved--why couldn't the Knicks start that process with him after he re-signed? Look at Shved man--that dude hasn't lifted a weight in his life and his off-season was undoubtedly filled with eventful things that took up a good part of his time -- trips back and forth to Russia I'm sure, planning a marriage, getting married, etc.. When you get right down to it though--how long would it honestly take Shved to add 5-10 lbs. of core strength if he started right now? The off-season's not even over--when does NBA training camp officially start, September 15?? That's a little under a month from now and then add a good month and a half before the season starts. Ahh, I digress... Still think the roster's shy 1 skilled/facilitating guard. We'll see how it goes..

The Triangle system is a half court system. Phil encourage the guards to push the ball and score when given the opportunity. So as far as transistion, there is no system or structure. Having young legs will equal speed, and Grant is the perfect compliment to an uptempo system, with the IQ for a Triangle system in half court.

And I agree with your Shevd comments. Phil let that one slip away. He would've been a great running mate with Grant, in a tall two pg system. Which is better than the small 2 pg system we used to run. Grant and Shevd is better than any combination of Grant and Gallo / Aflalo or Calderon. But Grant and Aflalo has a lot of promise, with a good mix of youth and vets runnin the guard position. Melo and Rolo will hold down the big positions, with Dwill and KP rotating in the PF spot. Sounds good on paper, but we all know how strong paper is.

Finestrg wrote:Back to Shved for a sec. -- I just can't believe that some perceived lack of strength by Phil is the reason this guy's not back in the Knick uniform. Pretend I brought this up last season instead of Phil Jackson -- you all would've told me to go fly a kite...Just sounds like such a lousy excuse for not retaining this dude, though it's probably candid enough, we all know how Phil speaks his mind no matter what. I just don't agree with it. Take a look at these two Shved vids--does lack of strength really look to be a major issue? The first vid shows Shved doing whatever he wants against the defending championship Spurs, Kawhi Leonard specifically:

Man, I can watch these videos and cry. Shved should still be a Knick...Does this look like a guy that doesn't have enough physicality or skill for the NBA?? This guy drives the ball more often and finishes better than any guard we've had here recently--JR, THJ, Shumpert, Calderon, and that's not even mentioning his ability to handle/orchestrate...Compare Shved to a lot of key bench guards around the league -- Shaun Livingston, Matthew Dellavedova, Kirk Hinrich, whoever -- you mean to tell me that Shved doesn't compare favorably to these guys physically, skill-wise? I think he does. Personally, I take him over those 3...Losing Shved, esp. if you believe the reason Phil gave, is real tough..

Was it all a money thing? Did they feel he was too ball dominant? He did seem to look for the open man better than anyone we had, and it was tough for any defender to stay in front of him, but he wasn't really playing within the Triangle concept, IMO. Still, he could have been a good change of pace guy off the bench.

Have to say this, though, the floor time we gave him was a great audition for other teams to see his game, yet the only acceptable offer he got was from overseas. Why no love from the NBA?

blkexec wrote:

mreinman wrote:I am still scared that the knicks are gonna draft Stein cause he too is so damn slow

Stein or KP

Stein or Kaminsky

Stein or OK4

These were the debates pre draft.....I wonder how these comparisons would look after the draft and mid way through the season.

Might even be able to throw Turner into this conversation down the line, especially if he grows another inch or so.

franco12 wrote:a pass can move faster than the fastest dribbler.

I care less about team speed and more about BB IQ. Can our players make the right decision and pass the ball to the open man?

If yes, we'll be fine. If no, we're going to struggle and five shane larkins wouldn't fix that problem.

Shved was playing like Lin light before he got hurt. I mean really good penetration anyway. He doesn't get hurt and we don't get the 4th pick imo. He was really helping to turn the "team" play around.

I think the Shved thing is gonna come back and bite us. BUT, maybe we bring him back next offseason. I don't think there is any bad blood.