I agree that the Triangle involves the whole team and it is more fun to watch. But these are just a few reasons why most teams run ISO and pick and roll schemes. Hope we have the players to make the Triangle effective but I also hope that Fisher utilizes some of these schemes when we are able to take advantage of obvious weaknesses. Think KP would benefit from doses of Pick and Rolls. As Melo would benefit from ISO's when a clear miss match is present. No matter what scheme you have, it will not be successful if it is one that is predictable. Just hope Phil has some flexibility and allows Fisher to utilize other offensive influences. Which from what I saw in the SL, seemed to be the case.

arkrud wrote:ISO works against bad teams with bad team defense and weak individual defenders on ISO position.
It can get team into playoffs if supported by decent defense but will not make team a contender.
ISO is the last resort when everything else breaks down. It is good to have but not as the main offensive strategy.

Ofcourse I was calling ISO in general. Which includes post up and as mentioned pick and roll.
It is what every team runs. Some plays ofcourse included in Triangle, such as hand off's and screens.

The Championship Laker teams with Magic and Kareem ran it exclusively in half court sets. When not running on transition. As did the Celtics and Piston championship teams. As well as more recent the Cavs and Warriors. Lebron and Irving more so. My point was that no one except for PJ teams run the Triangle exclusively. And it would make sense to add Isolation and pick and roll isolation at times.
Btw. Here is a link to offensive play type stats for last year
http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/

nixluva wrote:There's nothing wrong with a designed One on One look. That's not were the problem is. What we want is for the defense to be off kilter and not at it's strongest position and then just try to force ISO, which is what happened in the playoffs with Woody and ISO Melo. We're gonna see One on One looks within the Triangle but they should come off motion and ball movement where the defense is chasing and not in position to HELP. That's how you want to use ISO.

Of course late in game situations will make sense for some ISO looks as well, however you still want to have the defense put in a bad position when you do it. The problem with Woody was that there was no other action going on or any misdirection that would weaken the defense.

I agree. There were plenty of times that he could have changed things up a bit and we were predictable. However, it did get us 54 wins and if not for everyone but Shumpert and Melo
disappearing in the Indian series, we may be looking at things quite differently.

EnySpree wrote:I hated Phil and the triangle in chicago because they always ended up isolating Jordan anyway....i really started to respect it with the Lakers though because they still isolated Shaq alot. They also created space for Kobe to attack the paint.

The whole triangle word is over saturated with the Knicks. All of a sudden is outdated and "you need the right players to run it"....let's not be ignorant.

When we won 54 games, our leadership was impeccable. Alot of our players got hurt and hit the wall because they were close to 40 years old. To run strict isolation offense you need strong leadership or else the floor falls through like it did the following season.

The Knicks had zero leadership Woodson last year and beginning last season. Our talent gave up on the team. We got rid of them and got higher charecter guys and then all of a sudden we could watch a game without throwing up.

anyway, the triangle creates opportunities to isolate and better spacing. It also provides the isolator options because you know where guys are going to go if they cut. That's the Shaq and Jordan role. There's also plenty of opportunities for pick and roll. The offense has the 2 man game option where its straight pick and roll. That's kobe and Pippen role.

To enjoy what's going on you have to stop thinking that frank isola is so funny on bleacher report. Stop reading the post and their garbage. Get back to being your own expert. That was the ny way. Understand what you are looking at and then judge. Too much mob mentality opinions.

POST OF THE YEAR!!!

RedmenBaller wrote:With all the talk of the Triangle and playing the "The Right Way" wanted to look at some of the benefits of playin an ISO (Isolation with pick and rolls mixed in) offensive scheme. One which was used by Woodson to give us 54 wins.
The premise is to isolate your best offensive player or isolated any obvious miss matches in order to allow a higher percentage shot. As you would want your best offensive player to take most of the shots. As well as create the need for double teams. An adjustments that would leave other shooters open. Essentially what we did with Melo and shooters like Novak, Kidd and Smith. The pick and roll was also utilized to take advantage of bad defensive teams that either over played the pick and roll and left the big open cutting to basket or underplayed it and left guard open for medium range jump shot. As well as it required extra help from other defensive players and therefore left shooters open. Although somewhat predictable and at times boring it created several advantages.
1) Less turnovers as the ball was moving less.
2) Teams unable to adjust due to inherent player weaknesses. Just think about how many times we watched other teams use pick and roll on us with no solution.
3) Less turnovers will result in better defensive efficiency as it is more difficult to get your team back and defend after a turnover.
4) Less opponent possessions. Most ISO's run down the 24 second clock.
5) More open 3pt shots as a result of help defenses and double teams. If you have a star offensive player that requires double team.
6) Less pressure on lower tier offensive players to take shots. Triangle requires all players to shoot the ball. As seen last year we had guys like Lou, Aldrich and Thomas needing to make offensive moves or passes. Ofcourse if you have Jordan, Pippen, Kukoc on your team this is not a bad thing. Allows defensive specialists to stay on the court.

I agree that the Triangle involves the whole team and it is more fun to watch. But these are just a few reasons why most teams run ISO and pick and roll schemes. Hope we have the players to make the Triangle effective but I also hope that Fisher utilizes some of these schemes when we are able to take advantage of obvious weaknesses. Think KP would benefit from doses of Pick and Rolls. As Melo would benefit from ISO's when a clear miss match is present. No matter what scheme you have, it will not be successful if it is one that is predictable. Just hope Phil has some flexibility and allows Fisher to utilize other offensive influences. Which from what I saw in the SL, seemed to be the case.

You prefer Chamberlain to Russell. Who won more titles?

nixluva wrote:

tj23 wrote:The numbers don't lie. Isolation plays are the least efficient plays in the league. Good analysis though. I still believe the NBA is now generally a high screen and roll league dominated by guards. Unfortunately, you need a very good versatile guard to run that offense though and while I really like Grant and Afflalo I don't know for certain that they are definitely guys who can carry that load.

You should feel good about the Knicks guard situation. These are some really solid guards.

Afflalo is a very efficient 3pt shooter and he can also post up, with a very nice Turn Around Jumper. It's a tough market out there for top SG's and really Afflalo was a bargain given his ability as a SG. He basically provides a reliable player at a spot we really lacked any consistency. Dude wanted to be here and I think he should have a bounce back season. Given that he's mostly been consistently good when he's is a comfortable situation as opposed to the changing situation last year which ended with a shoulder strain.

Career Stats
FG%	3P%	FT%
.453	.385	.819

Jerian is a well rounded Guard.

Passing Ability - Grant is a very unselfish player, who is more than comfortable taking less shots to ensure good looks for the team. Just from the eye test, during just about any game Grant played in, he made smart passes to open team mates. The numbers back this up as Grant has one of the highest per 40 assist numbers in this year's class at 7.3. This a daunting number that shows he is an outstanding passer who could have immediate impact for a team. In transition Grant is always keeping his head up, looking for open team mates for easy lay-ups, threes, and easy mid-range jumpers.

It is key to also point out how well he takes care of the ball. Grant had one of the lowest AST/TO ratios at 3.1, which is 3rd in the Draft Express 100.

Offensive Game - Grant is a really good offensive player, he has some of the highest PPP numbers in the draft, showcasing his efficiency and ability to make plays. His PPP comes in at 1.45, the most amongst anyone with 500+ possessions. His two point percentage is at 57.2%, meaning he can knock down the mid-range jumper with consistency. Grant is not the quickest, or fastest player, but he offers a quick first step that gives him a lot of opportunities to get to the rim, or dish to open shooters for good looks from three. Grant also offers wonderful pick and roll skills that provides him an immediate impact.

Notre Dame ran quite a few pick and roll plays, where Grant showed he could knock down the three, mid-range, pass, and get to the rim if needed. The pick and roll is becoming a bigger part of the NBA and any player that is a great pick and roll player is an asset to any team. When this is coupled with his passing abilities, Grant is a deadly offensive threat. He offers the ability to create and make tough jumpers, while being unselfish and able to create lots of opportunities for everyone.

http://www.indycornrows.com/2015/5/15/8613253/pacers-draft-prospects-a-closer-look-at-jerian-grant

Like I said I really like both of them but Jerian is a rookie who has to probe he can score effectively and Afflalo has to bounce back from a very poor year. Jerian could be Jason Kidd or he could be Kendall Marshall. Afflalo could return to being an efficient scorer after one down year or he could be on the decline. There are a lot of unknowns with this team. So they could be surprisingly good or flop and be horrendously bad again. I like our chances though.

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I hated Phil and the triangle in chicago because they always ended up isolating Jordan anyway....i really started to respect it with the Lakers though because they still isolated Shaq alot. They also created space for Kobe to attack the paint.

The whole triangle word is over saturated with the Knicks. All of a sudden is outdated and "you need the right players to run it"....let's not be ignorant.

When we won 54 games, our leadership was impeccable. Alot of our players got hurt and hit the wall because they were close to 40 years old. To run strict isolation offense you need strong leadership or else the floor falls through like it did the following season.

The Knicks had zero leadership Woodson last year and beginning last season. Our talent gave up on the team. We got rid of them and got higher charecter guys and then all of a sudden we could watch a game without throwing up.

anyway, the triangle creates opportunities to isolate and better spacing. It also provides the isolator options because you know where guys are going to go if they cut. That's the Shaq and Jordan role. There's also plenty of opportunities for pick and roll. The offense has the 2 man game option where its straight pick and roll. That's kobe and Pippen role.

To enjoy what's going on you have to stop thinking that frank isola is so funny on bleacher report. Stop reading the post and their garbage. Get back to being your own expert. That was the ny way. Understand what you are looking at and then judge. Too much mob mentality opinions.

POST OF THE YEAR!!!

What he said.

holfresh wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I hated Phil and the triangle in chicago because they always ended up isolating Jordan anyway....i really started to respect it with the Lakers though because they still isolated Shaq alot. They also created space for Kobe to attack the paint.

The whole triangle word is over saturated with the Knicks. All of a sudden is outdated and "you need the right players to run it"....let's not be ignorant.

When we won 54 games, our leadership was impeccable. Alot of our players got hurt and hit the wall because they were close to 40 years old. To run strict isolation offense you need strong leadership or else the floor falls through like it did the following season.

The Knicks had zero leadership Woodson last year and beginning last season. Our talent gave up on the team. We got rid of them and got higher charecter guys and then all of a sudden we could watch a game without throwing up.

anyway, the triangle creates opportunities to isolate and better spacing. It also provides the isolator options because you know where guys are going to go if they cut. That's the Shaq and Jordan role. There's also plenty of opportunities for pick and roll. The offense has the 2 man game option where its straight pick and roll. That's kobe and Pippen role.

To enjoy what's going on you have to stop thinking that frank isola is so funny on bleacher report. Stop reading the post and their garbage. Get back to being your own expert. That was the ny way. Understand what you are looking at and then judge. Too much mob mentality opinions.

Woodson essentially lost his team in December when Dolan decided to hand the team over to Phil..I'm sure the players/organization got wind of what was happening..They all knew Phil was running the triangle..That's like saying you and your girlfriend broke up because she had someone else's baby...I'm sure shet went down when you found out she was pregnant for some one else nine months earlier...

holfresh wrote:

knickscity wrote:

holfresh wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I hated Phil and the triangle in chicago because they always ended up isolating Jordan anyway....i really started to respect it with the Lakers though because they still isolated Shaq alot. They also created space for Kobe to attack the paint.

The whole triangle word is over saturated with the Knicks. All of a sudden is outdated and "you need the right players to run it"....let's not be ignorant.

When we won 54 games, our leadership was impeccable. Alot of our players got hurt and hit the wall because they were close to 40 years old. To run strict isolation offense you need strong leadership or else the floor falls through like it did the following season.

The Knicks had zero leadership Woodson last year and beginning last season. Our talent gave up on the team. We got rid of them and got higher charecter guys and then all of a sudden we could watch a game without throwing up.

anyway, the triangle creates opportunities to isolate and better spacing. It also provides the isolator options because you know where guys are going to go if they cut. That's the Shaq and Jordan role. There's also plenty of opportunities for pick and roll. The offense has the 2 man game option where its straight pick and roll. That's kobe and Pippen role.

To enjoy what's going on you have to stop thinking that frank isola is so funny on bleacher report. Stop reading the post and their garbage. Get back to being your own expert. That was the ny way. Understand what you are looking at and then judge. Too much mob mentality opinions.

Woodson essentially lost his team in December when Dolan decided to hand the team over to Phil..I'm sure the players/organization got wind of what was happening..They all knew Phil was running the triangle..That's like saying you and your girlfriend broke up because she had someone else's baby...I'm sure shet went down when you found out she was pregnant for some one else nine months earlier...

Woodson was a dead man walking way before then. he wanted vets and got none when the season started. There was no B-Diddy's, or Mike Bibby's, or even a jeffries no Sheed Kurt or Camby either. ironically there isnt any now.

Dolan was pissed the old guys broke down at the end of the year..He want a young roster...Well he got it last year...