Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/johnschuhmann/status/628662562217967616

I had put this in the FA/Hot Stove thread- had not heard about the ACL tear at that time.

Pretty sad.

I have some issues with professionals playing in this kind of event given the money invested in them by their NBA teams.

Wonder if players would do this kind of thing if their contracts were not guaranteed?

I understand that there is a little matter of individual freedom, that there is a lot of pride involved in playing ball for your national team, and that a person could get hurt anywhere, but there is also the little matter of the millions of dollars attached to the health of a player and the teammates who just might depend on that player.

smackeddog wrote:So players should be banned from playing any kind of basketball activity in the offseason? No pick up games either? Why stop there- should they be marched off and vacuum sealed into a secure holding station?

Pretty standard for US professional sports contracts to have provisions against prohibited activities. But same thing for actors apparently.

IIRC, some world class surgeons, in order to get top shelf extra insurance, have to sign agreements to avoid certain prohibited activities that can harm than hands ( things like extensive gardening) If you had a son or daughter who was a world class surgeon, would you want them to risk their hands doing anything that could damage them? Like boxing training. Heavy manual labor. Heavy use of hand power tools. Any kind of extreme sports?

If you think that's extreme, most actors in large film and TV productions have hair and weight clauses. Can't gain weight. Can't cut your hair on your own terms. When filming can go on for months and not in order and the need for reshoots, you could shave your head and ruin the films ability to reshoot something or create a jarring gaffe on film ( i.e. suddenly the character wears a hat all of a sudden the rest of the movie)

The worst case was probably Robert Edwards of the Patriots ( I know, I know, **** those mother ****ing Patriots) However Edwards was a first round pick who had a stellar rookie year following the trade of Curtis Martin to the Jets when Parcells left. He made the All Rookie team, got to go to Hawaii to participate in Pro Bowl Day activities, tore his knee up playing a league event, a flag football game, put on the by the NFL. Pretty much ended his career.

Double edged sword. Stern wanted to desperately extend the NBA into overseas markets and make NBA basketball a powerful brand all over the world. To do that, you need international play. However you risk situations like Paul George, where an injury pretty much cripples a franchise.

Not really fair to call this total greed or over caution. One single injury can tip an NBA franchise for a very long time. George signed a massive extension before the injury. So did Derrick Rose. What might be seen as security for the team for a franchise player now becomes an albatross contract, choking out hope for half a decade or more.

No "career" is ever totally fair to your personal life. That's why it's called work.

smackeddog wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/johnschuhmann/status/628662562217967616

I had put this in the FA/Hot Stove thread- had not heard about the ACL tear at that time.

Pretty sad.

I have some issues with professionals playing in this kind of event given the money invested in them by their NBA teams.

Wonder if players would do this kind of thing if their contracts were not guaranteed?

I understand that there is a little matter of individual freedom, that there is a lot of pride involved in playing ball for your national team, and that a person could get hurt anywhere, but there is also the little matter of the millions of dollars attached to the health of a player and the teammates who just might depend on that player.

So players should be banned from playing any kind of basketball activity in the offseason? No pick up games either? Why stop there- should they be marched off and vacuum sealed into a secure holding station?

Ironically even if you did all that, they would likely be more likely to get injured when the season started due to the inactivity and lack of in game practice.

It's got to fall upon the team to incentivize it. I just read an article about Diana Taurasi - when she's not playing WNBA, she's playing ball in Russia. She's sitting out the year with Phoenix because her Russian team offered to pay her her full WNBA salary for the year to take the summer and rest.

Either that or a basic clause in the contract. I think I remember the Yankees voiding Aaron Boone's contact one year after he injured himself playing pick up basketball in the off season.

TripleThreat wrote:

smackeddog wrote:So players should be banned from playing any kind of basketball activity in the offseason? No pick up games either? Why stop there- should they be marched off and vacuum sealed into a secure holding station?

Pretty standard for US professional sports contracts to have provisions against prohibited activities. But same thing for actors apparently.

IIRC, some world class surgeons, in order to get top shelf extra insurance, have to sign agreements to avoid certain prohibited activities that can harm than hands ( things like extensive gardening) If you had a son or daughter who was a world class surgeon, would you want them to risk their hands doing anything that could damage them? Like boxing training. Heavy manual labor. Heavy use of hand power tools. Any kind of extreme sports?

If you think that's extreme, most actors in large film and TV productions have hair and weight clauses. Can't gain weight. Can't cut your hair on your own terms. When filming can go on for months and not in order and the need for reshoots, you could shave your head and ruin the films ability to reshoot something or create a jarring gaffe on film ( i.e. suddenly the character wears a hat all of a sudden the rest of the movie)

The worst case was probably Robert Edwards of the Patriots ( I know, I know, **** those mother ****ing Patriots) However Edwards was a first round pick who had a stellar rookie year following the trade of Curtis Martin to the Jets when Parcells left. He made the All Rookie team, got to go to Hawaii to participate in Pro Bowl Day activities, tore his knee up playing a league event, a flag football game, put on the by the NFL. Pretty much ended his career.

Double edged sword. Stern wanted to desperately extend the NBA into overseas markets and make NBA basketball a powerful brand all over the world. To do that, you need international play. However you risk situations like Paul George, where an injury pretty much cripples a franchise.

Not really fair to call this total greed or over caution. One single injury can tip an NBA franchise for a very long time. George signed a massive extension before the injury. So did Derrick Rose. What might be seen as security for the team for a franchise player now becomes an albatross contract, choking out hope for half a decade or more.

No "career" is ever totally fair to your personal life. That's why it's called work.

Players need to play ball in the offseason to stay sharp- thats a fact, if you're going to prohibit it, then you just increase the injury risk when they start playing again in the preseason. Injuries are annoying, but a fact of life. To be honest I'd rather a player was playing in a managed international event than a pick up game.

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

smackeddog wrote:So players should be banned from playing any kind of basketball activity in the offseason? No pick up games either? Why stop there- should they be marched off and vacuum sealed into a secure holding station?

Pretty standard for US professional sports contracts to have provisions against prohibited activities. But same thing for actors apparently.

IIRC, some world class surgeons, in order to get top shelf extra insurance, have to sign agreements to avoid certain prohibited activities that can harm than hands ( things like extensive gardening) If you had a son or daughter who was a world class surgeon, would you want them to risk their hands doing anything that could damage them? Like boxing training. Heavy manual labor. Heavy use of hand power tools. Any kind of extreme sports?

If you think that's extreme, most actors in large film and TV productions have hair and weight clauses. Can't gain weight. Can't cut your hair on your own terms. When filming can go on for months and not in order and the need for reshoots, you could shave your head and ruin the films ability to reshoot something or create a jarring gaffe on film ( i.e. suddenly the character wears a hat all of a sudden the rest of the movie)

The worst case was probably Robert Edwards of the Patriots ( I know, I know, **** those mother ****ing Patriots) However Edwards was a first round pick who had a stellar rookie year following the trade of Curtis Martin to the Jets when Parcells left. He made the All Rookie team, got to go to Hawaii to participate in Pro Bowl Day activities, tore his knee up playing a league event, a flag football game, put on the by the NFL. Pretty much ended his career.

Double edged sword. Stern wanted to desperately extend the NBA into overseas markets and make NBA basketball a powerful brand all over the world. To do that, you need international play. However you risk situations like Paul George, where an injury pretty much cripples a franchise.

Not really fair to call this total greed or over caution. One single injury can tip an NBA franchise for a very long time. George signed a massive extension before the injury. So did Derrick Rose. What might be seen as security for the team for a franchise player now becomes an albatross contract, choking out hope for half a decade or more.

No "career" is ever totally fair to your personal life. That's why it's called work.

Players need to play ball in the offseason to stay sharp- thats a fact, if you're going to prohibit it, then you just increase the injury risk when they start playing again in the preseason. Injuries are annoying, but a fact of life. To be honest I'd rather a player was playing in a managed international event than a pick up game.

Say what you want about Eddy Curry, but he never hurt himself in the off season!!!

fishmike wrote:

Nalod wrote:By contract there are sanctioned events and there are not.

I am under the belief that a player will tear his ACL regardless of his activities.
Perhaps if a player was training in the summer (they do this right?) he could just as have done it under the care of his NBA team as oppose to playing for country.

Naturally they have to take care of their bodies and know when they are cooked and need rest. We talking about a 20 year old kid right? Did this kid play ball in the summer growing up? Likely.
Was he playing against men older than him? Did he blow out the knee in a game? Was there contact? freak movement? Land on someones foot? If he was in college would he have played on Junior teams that play abroad?

Kid was playing basketball.

yea this... I mean there are things that consitute risk, but this is basketball. I mean the only time it makes sense to tell a player they cant play is if they are coming off an injury. They are athletes, let them be athletic. Its not a contact sport and they arent pitchers. What is basketball? Its running and jumping and shooting. If you hurt doing those things thems the breaks.

why is it ok for him to play basketball? basketball is a sport where its very easy to get hurt. If you get hurt doing your job for the team that is paying you, thats another story

smackeddog wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Nalod wrote:By contract there are sanctioned events and there are not.

I am under the belief that a player will tear his ACL regardless of his activities.
Perhaps if a player was training in the summer (they do this right?) he could just as have done it under the care of his NBA team as oppose to playing for country.

Naturally they have to take care of their bodies and know when they are cooked and need rest. We talking about a 20 year old kid right? Did this kid play ball in the summer growing up? Likely.
Was he playing against men older than him? Did he blow out the knee in a game? Was there contact? freak movement? Land on someones foot? If he was in college would he have played on Junior teams that play abroad?

Kid was playing basketball.

yea this... I mean there are things that consitute risk, but this is basketball. I mean the only time it makes sense to tell a player they cant play is if they are coming off an injury. They are athletes, let them be athletic. Its not a contact sport and they arent pitchers. What is basketball? Its running and jumping and shooting. If you hurt doing those things thems the breaks.

why is it ok for him to play basketball? basketball is a sport where its very easy to get hurt. If you get hurt doing your job for the team that is paying you, thats another story

So that goes back to my original point- you think no basketball player should play any game or practice at all in the offseason? Really?

practice ... maybe lightly.

playing actual games? Absolutely not! (unless the team wants him to for developmental purposes)

smackeddog wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/johnschuhmann/status/628662562217967616

I had put this in the FA/Hot Stove thread- had not heard about the ACL tear at that time.

Pretty sad.

I have some issues with professionals playing in this kind of event given the money invested in them by their NBA teams.

Wonder if players would do this kind of thing if their contracts were not guaranteed?

I understand that there is a little matter of individual freedom, that there is a lot of pride involved in playing ball for your national team, and that a person could get hurt anywhere, but there is also the little matter of the millions of dollars attached to the health of a player and the teammates who just might depend on that player.

So players should be banned from playing any kind of basketball activity in the offseason? No pick up games either? Why stop there- should they be marched off and vacuum sealed into a secure holding station?

Ironically even if you did all that, they would likely be more likely to get injured when the season started due to the inactivity and lack of in game practice.

Who said that they could not practice or work out in the off season? Who said you had to be inactive?

Will the Australian national team compensate Utah for loss of services? Did the USA team give Larry Bird a player of comparable talent to replace the loss of Paul George? Do you think Cam Newton playing Australian Rules Football after signing a major contract might have spooked the Panthers a bit?

So lets make believe that you are husband with a wife and 3 kids and you take the college account that you and your wife have built up for 15 years and lose the entire $100Gs in Vegas one weekend because you felt you deserved some fun...that would be OK for you to do?

An NBA career is only a short part of a player's life, but the money you make from it should be able to fuel the rest of a player's life if they are smart- and you will have many years to enjoy the fruits of your labor. Signing a player to a contract is an "investment" in you being made by a team- and they made chose to make you a part of their team instead of someone else they could have taken instead.

Are you of the opinion that once you get your guaranteed money you can do anything you want to do even if it put you at risk of injury and has the potential to affect your team and your teammates???

I understand guys are going to play for their countries and you can't stop it unless it is in a contract, but at what point do you have a responsibility to the team that is shelling out millions of dollars to you and allowing you to live a life that you could never have lived without that contract?

From what I've been able to learn about guys who post on UK, personal responsibility seems to be a forgotten element of "character" for many.

Having the "freedom" to do something does not necessarily make it a responsible thing to do.

Exum didn't do anything bad or stupid like Richardson or JPP, and if I'm Australian, I would feel proud that he was competing for my country, but the injury could have a big impact on the guys who pay him, and it has to be a consideration.

I know how I will feel if the Knicks come on strong at the end of the year, and either KP or Anthony get hurt playing for Latvia or the U.S. next year and one of them is out for the entire 16/17 season.

I get the Mark Cuban thing about a $100mil player hurting himself off season playing for a national team and the point of getting hurt, but at the same time if the player is working out in the teams facility and gets hurt, is it any different? Nalod contends a player will blow out a knee regardless. If the player is improving or maintaining while doing so it also would happen regardless.