smackeddog wrote:

crzymdups wrote:No team would take on Calderon's contract.

Thats what people said about JR

Not me. You're conflating different people's opinions on the board into one big straw man. Do whatever you want, but Phil Jackson is still a terrible GM.

smackeddog wrote:Just thought I'd get this hypocrisy in a year early:

I can't believe we gave away Calderon for nothing! Phil is an idiot! Now he's contributing as a role player for a playoff team- Phil is an idiot, Dolan is an idiot, and even though I demanded we cut him or trade him away for nothing, and insisted he had negative trade value, somehow I'm not an idiot and a hypocrite- it's just them! Phil should have gotten back at least a late first rounder!

crzymdups wrote:No team would take on Calderon's contract.

Just like how no team would take on Zach Randolph's contract; no team would take on Gilbert Arenas' contract; no team would take on Rashard Lewis' contract; no team would take on Jerome James' contract; no team would take on Juwan Howard's contract; just like no team would take on the phletora of other bad contracts that inevitably got moved in recent history of the NBA. With the cap spiking in 2016, I suspect that Calderon's contract becomes inconsequential especially if the deal is right. He's reportedly a very good locker room presence and has steady hands, which should make him somewhat intriguing to other teams. It still doesn't excuse the fact that the Tyson trade was an utter disaster.

crzymdups wrote:I understand Amar'e's contract was untradeable. But when you look at what Phil got for the other three starters and Sixth Man of the Year when he blew up this team... it's mindbogglingly awful. He didn't get a player remotely approaching a starter, he didn't get a first round pick, he didn't get a rotation player. It is one of the most astoundingly terrible GM performances I've ever seen. All the players who left except Felton went on to play major minutes for contenders in the playoffs. He traded 5 very serviceable and good players for absolutely nothing.

The amazing thing is people keep preaching more time and patience and give Phil a chance. He's had 18 months and been absolutely horrendous. I am deeply scared of this draft. There's a potential Phil will pass on ten years of an all-star to prove his Triangle is right. Anyway. We'll see, I guess.

NardDogNation wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I understand Amar'e's contract was untradeable. But when you look at what Phil got for the other three starters and Sixth Man of the Year when he blew up this team... it's mindbogglingly awful. He didn't get a player remotely approaching a starter, he didn't get a first round pick, he didn't get a rotation player. It is one of the most astoundingly terrible GM performances I've ever seen. All the players who left except Felton went on to play major minutes for contenders in the playoffs. He traded 5 very serviceable and good players for absolutely nothing.

The amazing thing is people keep preaching more time and patience and give Phil a chance. He's had 18 months and been absolutely horrendous. I am deeply scared of this draft. There's a potential Phil will pass on ten years of an all-star to prove his Triangle is right. Anyway. We'll see, I guess.

Aside from Iman Shumpert and Tyson Chandler, who are these 5 serviceable players that Phil traded? Because JR is little more than a flash in the pan right now. The same things he's doing for the Cavs are the same things he did for us during his 6th man of the year season. And for all his prowess then, you saw how little the market thought of him in free agency and rightfully so. The guy is a ticking time bomb and can scuttle any team along with himself when he implodes. He's done it with the Hornets/Pelicans, the Bulls never gave him an option for him to do it to them and gave him away almost as quickly as they got him, he's done it in Denver, he's done it with the Knicks and he'll surely do it again to the Cavs. Fortunately for the Cavs though, they aren't worrying about tomorrow as much as they are today so the fact that JR can have no future with a team is meaningless to them. But you'd be considering yourself if you thought anyone would be giving up a 1st round pick in any deal that JR Smith is included in.

And even if I gave you JR, who are the other 2 guys that Phil traded away that were serviceable?

Amar'e averaged 11ppg and 4rpg in Dallas as a serviceable bench player. Pablo Prigioni was a serviceable rotation player for Houston. JR, yes, sorry he's not liked here, but he's averaging 14ppg on 45% in the playoffs for Cleveland and has saved their bacon many times with Kyrie and Love out. Shump, yes, is starting for the Cavs. Tyson, yes, started for the playoffs Mavs and had a nice season. That's five.

Calderon said that he felt bad about the way the season turned out and wants to come back strong and help the team. If that happens we will have a mentor for a PG if Phil decides to draft one. If he doesnt or that PG makes Calderon expendable in short order, we should be able to get something decent for him if he is playing well. The Knicks could use Calderon to address a need at another position.

If he comes back doughy and slow, thats another story.

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I understand Amar'e's contract was untradeable. But when you look at what Phil got for the other three starters and Sixth Man of the Year when he blew up this team... it's mindbogglingly awful. He didn't get a player remotely approaching a starter, he didn't get a first round pick, he didn't get a rotation player. It is one of the most astoundingly terrible GM performances I've ever seen. All the players who left except Felton went on to play major minutes for contenders in the playoffs. He traded 5 very serviceable and good players for absolutely nothing.

The amazing thing is people keep preaching more time and patience and give Phil a chance. He's had 18 months and been absolutely horrendous. I am deeply scared of this draft. There's a potential Phil will pass on ten years of an all-star to prove his Triangle is right. Anyway. We'll see, I guess.

There wasn't a market for JR. He was coming off two suspensions, knee surgery and he had a plantar fascia tear. He is a noted partier and knucklehead. Yes he won 6th man of the year but he followed that up by falling a part in the playoffs and getting suspended twice. Woodson really stuck up for JR and when his job was on the line and he went to JR and asked him to take better shots JR chose not to shoot the ball for an entire game. Are we really discussing this guy in if and but terms? I haven't regretted his not being a knick for a single day since the trade.

+1. Good riddance!

crzymdups wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I understand Amar'e's contract was untradeable. But when you look at what Phil got for the other three starters and Sixth Man of the Year when he blew up this team... it's mindbogglingly awful. He didn't get a player remotely approaching a starter, he didn't get a first round pick, he didn't get a rotation player. It is one of the most astoundingly terrible GM performances I've ever seen. All the players who left except Felton went on to play major minutes for contenders in the playoffs. He traded 5 very serviceable and good players for absolutely nothing.

The amazing thing is people keep preaching more time and patience and give Phil a chance. He's had 18 months and been absolutely horrendous. I am deeply scared of this draft. There's a potential Phil will pass on ten years of an all-star to prove his Triangle is right. Anyway. We'll see, I guess.

Aside from Iman Shumpert and Tyson Chandler, who are these 5 serviceable players that Phil traded? Because JR is little more than a flash in the pan right now. The same things he's doing for the Cavs are the same things he did for us during his 6th man of the year season. And for all his prowess then, you saw how little the market thought of him in free agency and rightfully so. The guy is a ticking time bomb and can scuttle any team along with himself when he implodes. He's done it with the Hornets/Pelicans, the Bulls never gave him an option for him to do it to them and gave him away almost as quickly as they got him, he's done it in Denver, he's done it with the Knicks and he'll surely do it again to the Cavs. Fortunately for the Cavs though, they aren't worrying about tomorrow as much as they are today so the fact that JR can have no future with a team is meaningless to them. But you'd be considering yourself if you thought anyone would be giving up a 1st round pick in any deal that JR Smith is included in.

And even if I gave you JR, who are the other 2 guys that Phil traded away that were serviceable?

Amar'e averaged 11ppg and 4rpg in Dallas as a serviceable bench player. Pablo Prigioni was a serviceable rotation player for Houston. JR, yes, sorry he's not liked here, but he's averaging 14ppg on 45% in the playoffs for Cleveland and has saved their bacon many times with Kyrie and Love out. Shump, yes, is starting for the Cavs. Tyson, yes, started for the playoffs Mavs and had a nice season. That's five.

Amar'e was making $23 million. What trade could we have pursued for a contract that large that would not have added long-term money? More importantly, his contributions sure didn't mean much since the Mavs got steamrolled out of the playoffs. It's unfortunate but I think Amare's career is over. He's so bad defensively and so mediocre a rebounder that no team can keep him on the floor. I suspect he'll resign with the Suns this offseason though, so maybe their medical team can revitalize him.

And as much as I love Prigioni, his time in the NBA is over as well unless he's a 3rd stringer. The only reason he's getting time is because Patrick Beverly is out. But I suppose if we had James Harden and Dwight Howard too, he'd be "serviceable". Unfortunately, we don't and need to focus on adding one or two of those caliber of players before we hold onto that type of player long-term.

As for JR, this postseason is an aberration. He's usually horrible in the playoffs. Don't quote me on this but I'm pretty sure he's only a 38% shooter for his playoff career. Then the cherry on top is the fact that he'll do something completely boneheaded that will hurt the team e.g. elbowing Jason Terry. You were not getting anything valuable for a player like that. Just look at what guys like Jamal Crawford fetched in trades and Jamal didn't even have any character issues like JR did!