And Barkley's early season meme that the Knicks lacked talent went viral. Today JR Smith, Shumpert, Prigioni thrive. Former Knicks both complete and harden playoff rosters. The players who were left to finish the season are equally as talented yet Knicks fans are ashamed of them because the meme is so ubiquitous.

And so, going into the draft Knicks fans created an expectation modeled on the only previous positive experience they had ever had - Ewing reborn in Okafor or Towns despite the fact that this draft is deep far into the twenties. We should know better. We've watched perpetual losing teams run this horse race year after year as if the number itself dictated success in the anti-success.

The fact of the matter is that the Knicks get to pick fourth - only three teams pick sooner. Two big men and a guard will be picked before the Knicks. Fans projected one of the big men to be the second coming of Ewing. The fact that our pick isn't a big man is so out of the box in terms of expectations that some Knicks fans, fueled by the haters, went on a Chicken Little tirade against Dolan, Jackson, Fisher, Thomas, and on and on and on.

Here's what will actually happen. The Knicks will get a young guard who will blow our minds. Russell or Mudiay are both going to be great or even better. The Knicks will find a center elsewhere. Next year we make the playoffs. The core team is in place and very good - don't buy the argument that they're not. The Knicks will be deeper, healthier, and far more intelligent in the coming year than this past one.

And this summer will be fun as we watch Jackson and company assemble a winning team. Of this I have no doubt.

fwk00 wrote:One of the fascinating psychological aspects of being a Knicks fan is how easily we are manipulated by the media and the team pundits, former rivals, and contemporary haters. ESPN, TNT, Isola, and a parade of other media clones bask in the glory of a losing Knicks season, revel in the Knicks getting the fourth pick of the draft, and so on. Young Knicks fans are imprinted with a losers mentality forged by the press and the social media drumbeat of recriminations. The litany of recognized NBA greats who are never quite good enough is legion. Isiah Thomas, Larry Brown, Phil Jackson, Mike D'Antoni, the list is long.

And Barkley's early season meme that the Knicks lacked talent went viral. Today JR Smith, Shumpert, Prigioni thrive. Former Knicks both complete and harden playoff rosters. The players who were left to finish the season are equally as talented yet Knicks fans are ashamed of them because the meme is so ubiquitous.

And so, going into the draft Knicks fans created an expectation modeled on the only previous positive experience they had ever had - Ewing reborn in Okafor or Towns despite the fact that this draft is deep far into the twenties. We should know better. We've watched perpetual losing teams run this horse race year after year as if the number itself dictated success in the anti-success.

The fact of the matter is that the Knicks get to pick fourth - only three teams pick sooner. Two big men and a guard will be picked before the Knicks. Fans projected one of the big men to be the second coming of Ewing. The fact that our pick isn't a big man is so out of the box in terms of expectations that some Knicks fans, fueled by the haters, went on a Chicken Little tirade against Dolan, Jackson, Fisher, Thomas, and on and on and on.

Here's what will actually happen. The Knicks will get a young guard who will blow our minds. Russell or Mudiay are both going to be great or even better. The Knicks will find a center elsewhere. Next year we make the playoffs. The core team is in place and very good - don't buy the argument that they're not. The Knicks will be deeper, healthier, and far more intelligent in the coming year than this past one.

And this summer will be fun as we watch Jackson and company assemble a winning team. Of this I have no doubt.

Oh man you work for the Knicks. Ok fwk(does that sound like I think it sounds)--you tell Dolan Thomas Jackson Fischer that Knick fans are mad because we won two ABSOLUTE meaningless games which cost us a power pivot for the next 15 years. I think that "they" can understand the extreme disappointment of giving away the pole position to the draft and then watching that position yield pick #1. The media isn't telling anything to Knick fans that they don't already know. I would suggest telling Dolan to watch the numerous draft videos that showed the 'REAL TIME" Knick fans angst. And why wouldn't they? Its just another blunder along the the last 15 years of incompetence. Don't blame the media Dolan--blame yourself. And fwk-tell your boss to get real.

The core team is in place--can you tell me what that is--thanks:)

fwk00 wrote:One of the fascinating psychological aspects of being a Knicks fan is how easily we are manipulated by the media and the team pundits, former rivals, and contemporary haters. ESPN, TNT, Isola, and a parade of other media clones bask in the glory of a losing Knicks season, revel in the Knicks getting the fourth pick of the draft, and so on. Young Knicks fans are imprinted with a losers mentality forged by the press and the social media drumbeat of recriminations. The litany of recognized NBA greats who are never quite good enough is legion. Isiah Thomas, Larry Brown, Phil Jackson, Mike D'Antoni, the list is long.

And Barkley's early season meme that the Knicks lacked talent went viral. Today JR Smith, Shumpert, Prigioni thrive. Former Knicks both complete and harden playoff rosters. The players who were left to finish the season are equally as talented yet Knicks fans are ashamed of them because the meme is so ubiquitous.

And so, going into the draft Knicks fans created an expectation modeled on the only previous positive experience they had ever had - Ewing reborn in Okafor or Towns despite the fact that this draft is deep far into the twenties. We should know better. We've watched perpetual losing teams run this horse race year after year as if the number itself dictated success in the anti-success.

The fact of the matter is that the Knicks get to pick fourth - only three teams pick sooner. Two big men and a guard will be picked before the Knicks. Fans projected one of the big men to be the second coming of Ewing. The fact that our pick isn't a big man is so out of the box in terms of expectations that some Knicks fans, fueled by the haters, went on a Chicken Little tirade against Dolan, Jackson, Fisher, Thomas, and on and on and on.

Here's what will actually happen. The Knicks will get a young guard who will blow our minds. Russell or Mudiay are both going to be great or even better. The Knicks will find a center elsewhere. Next year we make the playoffs. The core team is in place and very good - don't buy the argument that they're not. The Knicks will be deeper, healthier, and far more intelligent in the coming year than this past one.

And this summer will be fun as we watch Jackson and company assemble a winning team. Of this I have no doubt.

fifteen-plus years into the dolan era and you predict/expect a turnaround, yet it is more likely that the inertia of failure is quite strong, right? moreover dolan still owns the team. nice fluffy piece of writing but some knicks fans don't need the media to interpret for us what we already have witnessed with our own eyes over this now-vast period of sports-time, or have a collective psyche dissected. and if it is dissected, it is more stokholm syndrome or battered wife syndrome.

the fish rots from the head down and the knicks are guilty until proven innocent.

fwk00 wrote:One of the fascinating psychological aspects of being a Knicks fan is how easily we are manipulated by the media and the team pundits, former rivals, and contemporary haters. ESPN, TNT, Isola, and a parade of other media clones bask in the glory of a losing Knicks season, revel in the Knicks getting the fourth pick of the draft, and so on. Young Knicks fans are imprinted with a losers mentality forged by the press and the social media drumbeat of recriminations. The litany of recognized NBA greats who are never quite good enough is legion. Isiah Thomas, Larry Brown, Phil Jackson, Mike D'Antoni, the list is long.

And Barkley's early season meme that the Knicks lacked talent went viral. Today JR Smith, Shumpert, Prigioni thrive. Former Knicks both complete and harden playoff rosters. The players who were left to finish the season are equally as talented yet Knicks fans are ashamed of them because the meme is so ubiquitous.

And so, going into the draft Knicks fans created an expectation modeled on the only previous positive experience they had ever had - Ewing reborn in Okafor or Towns despite the fact that this draft is deep far into the twenties. We should know better. We've watched perpetual losing teams run this horse race year after year as if the number itself dictated success in the anti-success.

The fact of the matter is that the Knicks get to pick fourth - only three teams pick sooner. Two big men and a guard will be picked before the Knicks. Fans projected one of the big men to be the second coming of Ewing. The fact that our pick isn't a big man is so out of the box in terms of expectations that some Knicks fans, fueled by the haters, went on a Chicken Little tirade against Dolan, Jackson, Fisher, Thomas, and on and on and on.

Here's what will actually happen. The Knicks will get a young guard who will blow our minds. Russell or Mudiay are both going to be great or even better. The Knicks will find a center elsewhere. Next year we make the playoffs. The core team is in place and very good - don't buy the argument that they're not. The Knicks will be deeper, healthier, and far more intelligent in the coming year than this past one.

And this summer will be fun as we watch Jackson and company assemble a winning team. Of this I have no doubt.

As for drafting 1st or 2nd, vs 4th- the issue is control, and fear of the unknown, a psychological aspect that applies to all of us. Nothing is sure in these drafts, and there is no immutable law created by the BB gods which says the better your draft position, the better the player you get, but even if we understand this to be true, the idea that we can control our immediate destiny, without having to depend on the choices of too many other teams, makes us feel better.

No words can erase or ameliorate the anxiety and unease we now face when choosing at #4, until the guy we choose turns out to be better than we ever thought he could be.

So it goes.

smackeddog wrote:Honestly, I try and look on the bright side, but taking a step back- we're kind of screwed. Falling out of the top 2 in the lottery was an absolute disaster. Look at free agency- who are you signing to complement our draft pick that honestly makes us a playoff team? We're further hindered by the cap exploding next year, because it's taken all restricted free agents off the market. The remaining ones all got injured. we only have $27mil, to fill PG, SG, PF and C (minus whatever position we draft) and fill out the bench. There are no good PG free agents either. And we have no pick next year- its going to be really really tough- I don't blame Phil for this, but realistically his hands are tied.

somebody's no-trade clause factors in there somewhere.

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Honestly, I try and look on the bright side, but taking a step back- we're kind of screwed. Falling out of the top 2 in the lottery was an absolute disaster. Look at free agency- who are you signing to complement our draft pick that honestly makes us a playoff team? We're further hindered by the cap exploding next year, because it's taken all restricted free agents off the market. The remaining ones all got injured. we only have $27mil, to fill PG, SG, PF and C (minus whatever position we draft) and fill out the bench. There are no good PG free agents either. And we have no pick next year- its going to be really really tough- I don't blame Phil for this, but realistically his hands are tied.

somebody's no-trade clause factors in there somewhere.

Not really- without Melo, very few FAs would want to come here- at least his presence gives us a shot at some of them that otherwise wouldn't consider us. The problem is, i don't think you can build a contender in the time scale Melo needs/wants, so I'd see if the Lakers would take him. Failing that, I think when the reality of the situation hits him, he'd be more open to accepting a trade to a contender

fwk00 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Honestly, I try and look on the bright side, but taking a step back- we're kind of screwed. Falling out of the top 2 in the lottery was an absolute disaster. Look at free agency- who are you signing to complement our draft pick that honestly makes us a playoff team? We're further hindered by the cap exploding next year, because it's taken all restricted free agents off the market. The remaining ones all got injured. we only have $27mil, to fill PG, SG, PF and C (minus whatever position we draft) and fill out the bench. There are no good PG free agents either. And we have no pick next year- its going to be really really tough- I don't blame Phil for this, but realistically his hands are tied.

Falling out of the top three was disappointing to be sure but we are not screwed.

The Knicks lost a lot of games last year and for that reason its easy to go along with the crowd who say that they stink. last year was a learning experience and a time to build ground up. A foundation is in place. Traditionally, the Knicks grasp at every big name that becomes available regardless of consequence or reasonable expectation.

We go into next year with a rich bench and numerous candidate rotation players. few people want to hear this and fewer believe it but we have some damned good players.

We do not need "everything". We have Melo as one forward. The back court slots are filled to the brim assuming we hold onto the lottery pick. That leaves starting opportunities at the SF and Center positions - the bench in both cases is also filled with solid role players.

All of the players we have have upside and time to grow.

Personally I move Timmy to Miami for #10 and pick up a big man in that lottery geography.

Sign the best 3 & D swingman we can get - Middleton, Carroll, Butler - plenty of FAs.

The doom and gloom is manufactured. this is a rising team that will win like SA and Atlanta win.

You might be able to get Miamis pick at 40 for Tim Hardaway--just like the rest of that post--getting him at 10 is just slightly over rating a player taken at 24.

smackeddog wrote:Honestly, I try and look on the bright side, but taking a step back- we're kind of screwed. Falling out of the top 2 in the lottery was an absolute disaster. Look at free agency- who are you signing to complement our draft pick that honestly makes us a playoff team? We're further hindered by the cap exploding next year, because it's taken all restricted free agents off the market. The remaining ones all got injured. we only have $27mil, to fill PG, SG, PF and C (minus whatever position we draft) and fill out the bench. There are no good PG free agents either. And we have no pick next year- its going to be really really tough- I don't blame Phil for this, but realistically his hands are tied.

Not getting a franchise caliber big man was a huge set back..I could have sees selling Melo and a new Big to FA, but thats out the window..I really don't have confidence in Phil to pull off anything dramatic...I think we will overpay for a guy like Monroe and we will be around 30 wins for the next couple of years..I think Phil has an opt out at the end of his second year..We are screwed...

smackeddog wrote:

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Honestly, I try and look on the bright side, but taking a step back- we're kind of screwed. Falling out of the top 2 in the lottery was an absolute disaster. Look at free agency- who are you signing to complement our draft pick that honestly makes us a playoff team? We're further hindered by the cap exploding next year, because it's taken all restricted free agents off the market. The remaining ones all got injured. we only have $27mil, to fill PG, SG, PF and C (minus whatever position we draft) and fill out the bench. There are no good PG free agents either. And we have no pick next year- its going to be really really tough- I don't blame Phil for this, but realistically his hands are tied.

somebody's no-trade clause factors in there somewhere.

Not really- without Melo, very few FAs would want to come here- at least his presence gives us a shot at some of them that otherwise wouldn't consider us. The problem is, i don't think you can build a contender in the time scale Melo needs/wants, so I'd see if the Lakers would take him. Failing that, I think when the reality of the situation hits him, he'd be more open to accepting a trade to a contender

you can't predict that-- i could just as easily say that with melo here it will put free agents off from wanting to come here since to many he is very difficult to play with. maybe if he was not here there would be free agents who would like to be the foundation of a different kind of team, more along the lines of a winner.... in case you missed it, melo has been a loser most of his career. free agents are liable to look at that history, look at msg with mills, dolan, etc and say look elsewhere.