gunsnewing wrote:I don't know about this. Melo can't keep up with 3's how is he going to guard 2's when they can just go around him. Just because they are 2's doesn't mean all they do is stand behind the 3pt line

Melo can simply guard the opposing players 3 point shooter--almost every team has 1. Go through NBA rosters--not many have breakdown 2's Guys like Wes Matthews Middleton Green Butler--he can guard those guys--in fact he can guard them better than he can guard a 6-11 260 pd PF. Go around the league and tell me he cant guard the 2 position. Klay Thompson Kyle Korver etc.. and when we cant we move him around to the best position to match up with.

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I kind of looked around this league and there are few good break down guards from the 2 position. I think there is a possibility we can move Melo to a hybrid 2 position where he guards a lot of 3 point shooters and takes significant wear off his body.

I like what Milwaukee hs done with Krhis Middleton who is the same height as Melo. Middleton is not a breakdown guard not is he uber athletic.

Melo can take responsibilities of moving the ball up the court and increase his ball moving/assists skills. I think if he can get down to 225 he can be a great 2 guard who is hard to match up with. He can shoot the 3 ball very well--he could post smaller guys and has the vision at 6-8 to pass to the open man.
There just is not a very of break down 2's in this league anymore--adn I think Melos size and movement are more than good enough to guard most of any NBA 2 1-1 in team setting. In fact I think it would be much easier for him and the team if he guarded guys like Middleton or Danny green--those types whop sit on the 3 point line for much of the game instead of going against 6-9-7-1 250pd players in the post where he can break down again.

If you want Melo to guard 3 point shooters, why not leave him at PF, where most of the league runs out Stretch 4 capable floor spacing PFs anyway?

You are asking an aging player, coming back from injury, to go around chasing wings, when his defensive IQ/effort/reputation is already suspect. Melo has never shown a propensity to move well off the ball, a requirement for an effective 2 guard, and he's never shown the ability to make players around him better and be a saavy passer/facilitator. Nor has he shown he can maintain a 225 weight class in his recent playing history.

It's one thing to ask a veteran player to make one major change from his career trends/norm, it's another thing to ask for 4 or 5 and then try to rely on them to fit the needs of the team.

Melo is a lethal one vs one isolation gunner. That's it. He's been in the league over a decade. It's not like will suddenly be something else overnight. He clearly creates mismatch problems for other teams as a power forward. Why tinker with that? Why tinker with something you can rely on, instead of hoping for 5-6 unlikely things to occur to shoehorn in your desire to move Melo around so you can fit a Kanter or a Mo Williams or a Greg Monroe on the roster.

Briggs, your lineup concoctions, mixing in Melo, Kanter, Mo Williams, Rodney Stuckey, resigning Bargs, it all just adds up to a lousy defense. You can't win games if you get torched by 50 every night. When you construct a lineup where Mo Williams is your best perimeter defender, you will be carpetbombed by other teams as games turn into a three hour layup drill.

We need a high quality PF?C--Kanter--check

We need a 6th man most teams have them Stuckey or Williams would be more than fine--my preference is Stuckey

If Alex S is committed to lifting weights and putting on 15 pounds--I woukd commit to him the starting PG job and a three year contract. Doesnt mean he'll stay there but he might.
Resign Bargs---well I said Id consider it after his 37 game audition for a limited 1 year contract. Price would have to be low and other plasn would have to have gone foul to follow up here.

Id say the only players in the frontcourt who have absolutely earned spots back are Aldrich and Admundson(but they are secondary players).

This is a team absolutely filled with holes. First order of business is to sign/Draft ATLEAST two quality frontcourt players

If I had a base of Kanter Alrdich Okafor and Admundson--I feel we could be competitive to say the least with any frontocurt--we might have the best frontcourt in the east or darn close to it.

That allows me to move Anthony back to a hybrid 2-3 and right now I have him flanked by Galloway Shaveyd--hopefully Stuckey

So this is where we are at now

C-Aldrich
F Kanter
F Anthony
G
G Shveyd

C Okafor
PF Admundson

G Stuckey
PG Galloway

So at this point I have 8 deep. My real need is athletic wing defenders in both the starting unit and back up unit. From here Id need to see what is available. My defense is MUCH better go two big and putting melo on one of the wing guards--most teams do not have two athletic wing guards. I have rim protection rebounding high quality offensive post play and lane clogging in both units . Both Shevyd and Stuckey provide penetration skills on each
unit and our guards and interchangeable. I can move Anthony around and give him more responsibilities to move the ball and for him to take a high % of 3 point shots--something I think he could excel at.

Knicks1969 wrote:Carmelo can be a pretty good defender when he wants. The problem is that he has been counting on so much for offense, he is usually holding back to conserve energy. We need to shore up our PG/SG positionS with good two-way guardS and find a way to also add good defensive bigs.

Defense has been no -existent in NY for way too long

How about we pass on the best big man defender, draft an offensive big....Then add another offensive big like Kanter. Thats the strategies I'm hearing from the pro OK4 camp. Phil Jackson, your up.....The franchise rest on your draft and free agent decisions.....This is the best position we've been in for a very long time, to finally turn this thing around!

blkexec wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Carmelo can be a pretty good defender when he wants. The problem is that he has been counting on so much for offense, he is usually holding back to conserve energy. We need to shore up our PG/SG positionS with good two-way guardS and find a way to also add good defensive bigs.

Defense has been no -existent in NY for way too long

How about we pass on the best big man defender, draft an offensive big....Then add another offensive big like Kanter. Thats the strategies I'm hearing from the pro OK4 camp. Phil Jackson, your up.....The franchise rest on your draft and free agent decisions.....This is the best position we've been in for a very long time, to finally turn this thing around!

and then sign Amare for the MLE!

yellowboy90 wrote:Why not move Bargs to the 2

Why not move Bargs 2 Antarctica? Or, somewhere far away from the Knicks?

BRIGGS wrote:

blkexec wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I don't know about this. Melo can't keep up with 3's how is he going to guard 2's when they can just go around him. Just because they are 2's doesn't mean all they do is stand behind the 3pt line

Add OK4 to the mix, and you now have multiple positions of players that can take any of them 1 on 1 to the cup. Good think we drafted a rim protector....oh wait! Or Maybe we can find a rim protector in free agency?.....mmmmmm nope!

We have cheap rim protection right here in Admundson and Aldrich who can fit in just fine under the SA Style of play. We cant fix all wholes in on year. We also need to know where will we be drafting and whst available to us via trade.

Much more so than defense--the NY Knicks cannot compete with upper tier NBA teams because we have a material lack of firepower. You need to score 110 points in the nBA. How do we correct this--start with high quality pivot plays for 48 minutes--thats will provide everyone else with more space to do their thing.

Just watch Kentucky right now--look at their 3 point shooters--over and over wide open. They put so much pressure in the pivot that their guards have ither wide open Js or alleys to drive.

This is the same principal as the Spurs in many ways--create space by putting force in the pivot and spacing with 3 point shooters. That gives your penetrators lanes(i.e Ginobli)

Briggs.....We both agree on how to build up the offense and the need to score more points. Where we disagree is when and how do we build up the offense vs when and how do we build up the defense. Also were we disagree is how defense creates offense....and changes the games momentum. It's a double edge sword, and you are looking at fixing one edge. I'm looking at fixing both. Oh....we definitely disagree with using Admundson and Aldrich as our main rim protectors. How has that worked out so far? It's almost like an insult to all basketball players to even say these guys will play any major minutes on a championship team, which is the goal correct?

It's very difficult to build a team of 1 deminsional players....Half with offensive talent.....Half with defensive talent. This isn't the NFL. The key to every championship team is the high ratio of two way players in the starting lineup and off the bench. Whoever has the most, turns out to be a very good team.

BRIGGS wrote:

blkexec wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

blkexec wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I don't know about this. Melo can't keep up with 3's how is he going to guard 2's when they can just go around him. Just because they are 2's doesn't mean all they do is stand behind the 3pt line

Add OK4 to the mix, and you now have multiple positions of players that can take any of them 1 on 1 to the cup. Good think we drafted a rim protector....oh wait! Or Maybe we can find a rim protector in free agency?.....mmmmmm nope!

We have cheap rim protection right here in Admundson and Aldrich who can fit in just fine under the SA Style of play. We cant fix all wholes in on year. We also need to know where will we be drafting and whst available to us via trade.

Much more so than defense--the NY Knicks cannot compete with upper tier NBA teams because we have a material lack of firepower. You need to score 110 points in the nBA. How do we correct this--start with high quality pivot plays for 48 minutes--thats will provide everyone else with more space to do their thing.

Just watch Kentucky right now--look at their 3 point shooters--over and over wide open. They put so much pressure in the pivot that their guards have ither wide open Js or alleys to drive.

This is the same principal as the Spurs in many ways--create space by putting force in the pivot and spacing with 3 point shooters. That gives your penetrators lanes(i.e Ginobli)

Briggs.....We both agree on how to build up the offense and the need to score more points. Where we disagree is when and how do we build up the offense vs when and how do we build up the defense. Also were we disagree is how defense creates offense....and changes the games momentum. It's a double edge sword, and you are looking at fixing one edge. I'm looking at fixing both. Oh....we definitely disagree with using Admundson and Aldrich as our main rim protectors. How has that worked out so far? It's almost like an insult to all basketball players to even say these guys will play any major minutes on a championship team, which is the goal correct?

It's very difficult to build a team of 1 deminsional players....Half with offensive talent.....Half with defensive talent. This isn't the NFL. The key to every championship team is the high ratio of two way players in the starting lineup and off the bench. Whoever has the most, turns out to be a very good team.

One step at a time. Priority number 1---> we need to find a way to improve our pivot play--its an extraordinary need. The NY Knicks have multiple problems that will not all be solved in on year. We need to score more points--thats a given. Im in 100% agreement with a balanced attack that has a priority defender on each unit in combination with solid PG defense and land clogging/rim protection.

I also want us to stock senior guards from the 2nd round and undrafted to bring to the SL.

So depending on who we pick will determine the direction we go in building this team. It will also give us fans some insight into Phil's foundation of a championship team. Does he go with a solid post player, or a high potential 2 way player? You already know my guess....But this is all fun debate, with no personal attacks. It just makes me hungry to see where we pick, because thats when the real debates will begin.

I think Phil is a multi purpose type of guy. He like big guards because they can do so many things on the court. I'm the same way. But I can also see us building a solid team with any of the top players in the draft. And I think this is the draft and free agency period where we can actually fill multiple holes. Usually I agree, one thing at a time. This year is the only exception for me, due to our combination of a high draft pick, cap room and a GM willing to take chances on undrafted rookies.