Jimmy Butler out 3-6 weeks on top of Derrik Rose!!! Thats a lot of talent to miss.
Is Thibs just breaking his guys? Noah usually wears out at seasons end. Butlers sprain could happen anytime.

Cleveland will be cautious with its team.

OKC has westbrook and Durant out and could miss playoffs. Pelicans doing very well without Davis.
Crazy the last 2 spots in the east could be any of 6 teams!!!

Naturally any team is subject to fraility losing its top player but seems more than ever the "star" system is even stronger now.

When Larry Browns Pistons won we might have seen a view of what used to be. Given how few star players there are now could a new era of balance be the next big thing. Miami won 2 of four finals and their lack of depth hurt them in the two losses. SAS damn near beat them in their 3rd try!
Lets be real for a moment, as good as Stephen Curry is, he is just a 6 foot 180 lb shoot first PG. GS is well balanced with a very good bench and to me this is what is carrying them.
ATL is also non star laden.
SAS last year won without any dominant star. Tony Parker was their best player. Their pedigree is their bigger than any one player.

Since all things go the way of Melo, Yes I can see a player of his caliber not as Kobe, Jordan or Lebron but of Sean Eliott, Robert Horry, Glen Rice, Jamall Wilks, Bobby Dandradge......Sharp shooting 3's who complimented and opened things up for the others.

Until then watch the training table, that might tell the tale of the tape!

Allanfan20 wrote:The fact that the season is 82 games with almost no recovery time doesn't help either.

But it's always been 82 games and never been a problem. Why is it a problem now?

Knixkik wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:The fact that the season is 82 games with almost no recovery time doesn't help either.

But it's always been 82 games and never been a problem. Why is it a problem now?

Good point. Dominique Wilkins was on the radio a few days ago talking about how the travel has improved, the training has improved, the facilities all around have improved, yet everyone's clamoring now for shorter seasons, "player breaks" during the season and adding days without more games to the season. All while the pool of NBA-caliber players to chose from have expanded globally.

Pop has started what I think, is a very dangerous precedent that unfortunately for the game, has provided results.

LeQ takes two weeks off and comes back stronger than ever.

We are now following a sport where tanking, flopping and now fake IR stints are the results of pragmatic business practices.

In my very humble opinion, I think it's going to end up killing the game.

Allanfan20 wrote:Again, I believe it's because of overtraining. I'm sure there is a good chance I am wrong but that's my humble theory.

I actually agree. If I ran a baseball or NBA team I wouldnt want anything more than light training in the offseason. Stay healthy, loose, in shape but dont train heavily.

After I tore up my knee around 24 it took me a year to get back. No more football but I played amateur hardball for almost 15 years after that. My first 4 years or so I would train like a madman in the winter to get ready for the long season. Problem was by Aug my knees would really show wear and tear. I didnt miss games, but played sore and hurt alot, tons of ice, swelling and PT to stay on the field. Then right before I turned 30 I tried something different. Nothing. No offseason running. No lifting for legs. Nada besides taking hikes with my dogs in the woods and strength training for the upper body. My thought was to cut down on wear and tear and it changed my life. I lasted longer. I would get in shape running wind sprints for 3 weeks before the season started. It would still take me a few weeks after to get my legs but come Aug/Sept when guys were really banged up I was still pretty fresh, at 30+. Changed my whole philosophy on training.

Maybe not everyone is the same, and some of these NBA guys put on a LOT of weight when they dont train so everyone is different, but I 100% think there is something to the overtraining.

fishmike wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:Again, I believe it's because of overtraining. I'm sure there is a good chance I am wrong but that's my humble theory.

I actually agree. If I ran a baseball or NBA team I wouldnt want anything more than light training in the offseason. Stay healthy, loose, in shape but dont train heavily.

After I tore up my knee around 24 it took me a year to get back. No more football but I played amateur hardball for almost 15 years after that. My first 4 years or so I would train like a madman in the winter to get ready for the long season. Problem was by Aug my knees would really show wear and tear. I didnt miss games, but played sore and hurt alot, tons of ice, swelling and PT to stay on the field. Then right before I turned 30 I tried something different. Nothing. No offseason running. No lifting for legs. Nada besides taking hikes with my dogs in the woods and strength training for the upper body. My thought was to cut down on wear and tear and it changed my life. I lasted longer. I would get in shape running wind sprints for 3 weeks before the season started. It would still take me a few weeks after to get my legs but come Aug/Sept when guys were really banged up I was still pretty fresh, at 30+. Changed my whole philosophy on training.

Maybe not everyone is the same, and some of these NBA guys put on a LOT of weight when they dont train so everyone is different, but I 100% think there is something to the overtraining.

It is basic science/exercise physiology. You need to train within' your fitness level while just trying to push it, then you need to give yourself the proper recovery time. Without that recovery time, you might as well have not worked out. This is why I am very anti cross-fit/insanity/p-90x. People who say "no pain no gain" are f'ing dumbasses. If you're hurting then you stop. If your body is sore, rest your body until you aren't sore. As soon as you wake up without soreness is when uou work those muscles again because that's when they are at their increased fitness levels.

In pro sports, there is no time for that and too much money involved to top it off... To go along with the pressure. Pro athletes are made to be broken.

blkexec wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Seems to happen more and more. What is the difference between today and the 90s? Why do guys get hurt more today?you would think training would be better today and we would see less injuries, not so many more.

The internet, social media, etc....is part of the reason why you didn't hear about these same injuries.

No, guys just got hurt less. Or played thru injuries more. Look at all of the 90s stars. None of them ever missed games. I mentioned Stockton and Malone in particular. Literally played 82 games every season and played big minutes. You don't see guys who play 38-40 mpg now who play 82 games every season like these 2 guys and many more.

blkexec wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Seems to happen more and more. What is the difference between today and the 90s? Why do guys get hurt more today?you would think training would be better today and we would see less injuries, not so many more.

The internet, social media, etc....is part of the reason why you didn't hear about these same injuries.

Players are getting bigger and faster....There's a lot more performance enhancement stuff out there.

Players are putting too much trust in new technology or wine baths and forget about the old school basics.

Players are making more money so they are under more stress than before.

After tearing my achilles, I read a study that said stress is also part of the reasons why ligaments tear. And as money increases, so does your stress levels.

Also, because so much money is on the line....Players are over training as well....Which was already stated.

Great points!!!

Add to it the fact we have more players and more players with extreme talent who get hurt in college or highschool are now instead of being done and never making it to the NBA, are able to continue and THEN get hurt or be fragile. Kind of natural selection. Back in the day a high % of babies died in their first year. Those that survived were naturally more fit for survival and fight infection as well. Now we have sicker people becuase they lived long enough to be unhealthy adults. Just an example.

Guys playing into thier 30's at high levels where before they were barely able to play. Look at Willis and Clyde. They broke down young. Pete Maravich today could have contined his career with surgery as many players. Cazzie Russell never reached his potential. Ralph Sampson was never built to play center, he was a stretch 4 or a three like Durant. Kid had handle and a great shot. Instead they played him at the C against big's and he got bad knees trying to push his way. I think if Durant came up in that time they would have done the same thing and I doubt he would have even made it to the NBA because he was so skinny.

Bill Russell retired at 32, yet WIlt player to about 37 and Jabbar to 42 if I recall. These guys, Like Jordan were just genetic wonders!!!

We are also employing and value the athlete than the fundamentally sound players. If a guy does not have the vertical or the wingspan he might not be carried on a team to be developed. Guys like Bill Bradley and Debussure were not fast or athletically gifted by todays standards but the grit a good outside shot (fundamentals) carried them to HOF careers.

Are there any statistics that prove any of this? I think we tend to romance the past that "guys never missed games, they played with one arm and no toes if they had to!!!"

I think there are a lot of reasons and it all adds up.

Question is it really different now or then 20 years ago or do we just know everything because of media access?

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Seems to happen more and more. What is the difference between today and the 90s? Why do guys get hurt more today?you would think training would be better today and we would see less injuries, not so many more.

The internet, social media, etc....is part of the reason why you didn't hear about these same injuries.

Players are getting bigger and faster....There's a lot more performance enhancement stuff out there.

Players are putting too much trust in new technology or wine baths and forget about the old school basics.

Players are making more money so they are under more stress than before.

After tearing my achilles, I read a study that said stress is also part of the reasons why ligaments tear. And as money increases, so does your stress levels.

Also, because so much money is on the line....Players are over training as well....Which was already stated.

Question is it really different now or then 20 years ago or do we just know everything because of media access?

Just look at players from the 80s and 90s who played 82 games most seasons. Guys aren't healthy enough to play 82 games anymore. They are complaining the seasons are too long and not enough rest, when nothing has changed. Media access has nothing to do with it. Guys play less games and get injured more now.