Here is a really good article I found. It does not knock the system but explains why teams don't implement it.

http://www.quora.com/Why-dont-more-NBA-teams-run-the-triangle-offense-considering-how-many-titles-have-been-won-using-it

I would feel much better about Phils chances if he was willing to run a traditional / highly efficient offense like SA and Atlanta.

Now tweaking the Triangle shouldn't be hard either but remember our players are so limited that they aren't even using every aspect of the Triangle. It's like the difference between the Knicks running SSOL and PHX running it. TOTALLY different results.

nixluva wrote:He was in the Finals just 5 years ago running this offense. I doubt he'd change it when he's just about to build a new roster that has players who should be able to thrive in a system like the Triangle. I was watching Duke and they ran Triangle with Okafor in the post. Towns has the game for Triangle and D Russell could surely thrive in it. With the right talent there's no reason not to run it.

Now tweaking the Triangle shouldn't be hard either but remember our players are so limited that they aren't even using every aspect of the Triangle. It's like the difference between the Knicks running SSOL and PHX running it. TOTALLY different results.

maybe because PHX had Nash and Phil had 4 of the top 30 players of all time running it.

You need a really smart superstar at guard (or 2). We don't have that.

And, it seems that the main issue with the triangle is that even if you have the smart mega stars, it takes a couple of years to learn once you have the roster in place. So, are we thinking that we will be ready in Melo's 4th year when he will probably be broken down?

It just seems like the learning curve is too big and takes too long as with the traditional top systems.

I did look at the last ring that the lakers won and they did shoot a below average % of threes but they also did not shoot that many long 2's (which was good to see).

Maybe they can tweak it to be a more friendly and efficient triangle that suits the personnel.

I hope that they sign Dragic and Mathews and draft Towns.

I also have a feeling that Phil will desperately try to trade Melo for anything that he can get.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:He was in the Finals just 5 years ago running this offense. I doubt he'd change it when he's just about to build a new roster that has players who should be able to thrive in a system like the Triangle. I was watching Duke and they ran Triangle with Okafor in the post. Towns has the game for Triangle and D Russell could surely thrive in it. With the right talent there's no reason not to run it.

Now tweaking the Triangle shouldn't be hard either but remember our players are so limited that they aren't even using every aspect of the Triangle. It's like the difference between the Knicks running SSOL and PHX running it. TOTALLY different results.

maybe because PHX had Nash and Phil had 4 of the top 30 players of all time running it.

You need a really smart superstar at guard (or 2). We don't have that.

And, it seems that the main issue with the triangle is that even if you have the smart mega stars, it takes a couple of years to learn once you have the roster in place. So, are we thinking that we will be ready in Melo's 4th year when he will probably be broken down?

It just seems like the learning curve is too big and takes too long as with the traditional top systems.

I did look at the last ring that the lakers won and they did shoot a below average % of threes but they also did not shoot that many long 2's (which was good to see).

Maybe they can tweak it to be a more friendly and efficient triangle that suits the personnel.

I hope that they sign Dragic and Mathews and draft Towns.

I also have a feeling that Phil will desperately try to trade Melo for anything that he can get.

I think you're looking at team development the wrong way. It's not that the Triangle somehow stunts the growth process. Isn't the most important part that Phil's team's became title contenders and won titles? Why are you concerned with the process taking some time? It's the end result that matters most.

Let's just see Phil bring in better talent 1st. Then we can go from there and see how the growth process develops. With only 4 players under contract its clear this is going to be some massive turnover. IMO the better the talent and fit of that talent the faster they'll one together.

I did not say that the triangle stunts growth. I said that it takes too long to learn.

Nalod wrote:Nash went from All star to 2 time MVP when PHX got him and MDA implemented that.

We tend to look backwards and say "Gee, Phil had Jordan and Kobe!"
Neither was at that level until they got with Phil.

It might take two years to implement. cuz its hard.

Some might want to ditch it because its hard. Might not succeed. All true.
Makes me a bigger fan and root for it. Shyts hard, shuts complicated. Shyt making out lackluster guys look bad.
PHuch it, I say go for it. This becomes knick basketball not just under phil, but the underlying culture! Long past Phil is gone, let him perpetuate a culture. Larry gave SAS Pop. Maybe Phil is not the one, or Phish, but maybe its the next guys.
Maybe it becomes "The Knick way!!!"

Maybe it takes a while. WTF, the other way didn't work.

Phil will draft a big that can pass. That much I read into that article.

Good post!!!! Thanks for the link!

So I'm all for culture change and lets say they put together a team that has a core that will be here for a while. You think that Melo is the star that will learn how to do this right? I don't see it. I predict a divorce and another reboot (which is fine too).

But anyone who thinks that we will be competing in the next few years better lower their expectations.

I hope phil sticks it out for the full five years and hopefully ends up coaching this team (fat chance).

I thought that I remember you saying back in the MDA days that Jackson was lucky that he had the best players on the planet. I thought I remember you saying you not wanting to give him credit. When did that change? Now that he is here?

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:Phil got good results when Jordan left in 93-94 he won 57 games n had Pippen n Kukoc.
In LA after Shaq he did well with Pau n Bynum. There are different examples of how Phil can get it done.

Pau was one of the top few players in the league.

1994 was probably his best coaching job of his career. Kukoc sucked. Kerr was pretty good. They also had an excellent Horace Grant. That was a damn good team.

Still not superstars as some would insist. Pau could play but he wasn't the dominant force that Shaq was. Remember all the "Pau is soft" memes? Let's not hype Pau beyond who he really was.

you saying that out of memory or did you double check his numbers?

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:Phil got good results when Jordan left in 93-94 he won 57 games n had Pippen n Kukoc.
In LA after Shaq he did well with Pau n Bynum. There are different examples of how Phil can get it done.

Pau was one of the top few players in the league.

1994 was probably his best coaching job of his career. Kukoc sucked. Kerr was pretty good. They also had an excellent Horace Grant. That was a damn good team.

Still not superstars as some would insist. Pau could play but he wasn't the dominant force that Shaq was. Remember all the "Pau is soft" memes? Let's not hype Pau beyond who he really was.

you saying that out of memory or did you double check his numbers?

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:Nixluva,

I thought that I remember you saying back in the MDA days that Jackson was lucky that he had the best players on the planet. I thought I remember you saying you not wanting to give him credit. When did that change? Now that he is here?

I did say that and he did have unbelievable talent with Jordan n Pippen, Kobe n Shaq! MDA never had that level of talent. Few coaches have. Still he managed the egos long enough to win which wasn't easy and wasn't permanent. His teams eventually succumbed to the egos.

You seem to have changed your tune.

Yeah ten rings is amazing but I still have more respect for Riley cuz he built up different teams and won with them. I mean Jax not only had MJ/Pippen but then Kobe/Shaq how hard is it to lose with that kind of talent? You have to actually mess things up to lose with those guys.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=35063&page=1