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saw the expansion list should be easy pickings
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BRIGGS
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6/14/2004  1:12 PM
C-Bochardt and i would take jerome james if settle throws in their 11 pick
PF-Brian Skinner
SF Q Woods Jason Kapono
SG Gerald Wallace
PG Troy Bell Keyon Dooling

that would be my 8 picks
RIP Crushalot😞
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tkf
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6/14/2004  1:20 PM
yea, Dooling and woods in the backcourt would be a nice start..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
TMS
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6/14/2004  1:43 PM
we already were talking about this on another thread:
http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=4898

but anyway, here's the team i would take if i were the Bobcats:

C - Michael Olowakandi / Brian Skinner / Jahidi White
PF - Antoine Walker / Marcus Fizer
SF - Gerald Wallace / Jumaine Jones
SG - Kerry Kittles / Qyntel Woods
PG - Ben Gordon (#4 lottery pick) / Chucky Atkins / Keyon Dooling

young, athletic, a few experienced vets who can guide the younger guys, guys who can score, rebound, defend, run the floor, block shots, be physical...i think this is a well rounded team & no one has an outrageous longterm contract, so you can trade guys like Kittles & Walker at the trade deadline for young players if you're not in contention...& they're good enough to win games for you so that fans don't quickly lose interest in the franchise soon after the initial charm of having a new franchise wears off...afterall, if you don't win, they won't bother coming.
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s3231
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6/14/2004  1:49 PM
Posted by TMS:

we already were talking about this on another thread:
http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=4898

but anyway, here's the team i would take if i were the Bobcats:

C - Michael Olowakandi / Brian Skinner / Jahidi White
PF - Antoine Walker / Marcus Fizer
SF - Gerald Wallace / Jumaine Jones
SG - Kerry Kittles / Qyntel Woods
PG - Ben Gordon (#4 lottery pick) / Chucky Atkins / Keyon Dooling

young, athletic, a few experienced vets who can guide the younger guys, guys who can score, rebound, defend, run the floor, block shots, be physical...i think this is a well rounded team & no one has an outrageous longterm contract, so you can trade guys like Kittles & Walker at the trade deadline for young players if you're not in contention...& they're good enough to win games for you so that fans don't quickly lose interest in the franchise soon after the initial charm of having a new franchise wears off...afterall, if you don't win, they won't bother coming.










Thats a pretty good team. However, did Minnesota really leave Olowakandi unprotected?
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
TMS
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6/14/2004  2:07 PM
according to Hoopsworld, they believe so...but again, no one knows for sure since the teams aren't allowed to reveal or discuss who they are leaving unprotected.
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fishmike
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6/14/2004  3:30 PM
isnt that way to much money? Dont they need to be under $25mm for year one? Or is it $30... They can (and probably will) draft someone like Walker and trade him for another to a team like the Jazz or Hawks that have nobody.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
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6/14/2004  3:42 PM
i had thought that too, but i keep reading that they are allowed to take just about anyone in the expansion draft w/o regard to the cap since they won't have to worry about it for the 1st 2 years...my understanding could be wrong on this, so don't quote me.
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Chico
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6/14/2004  4:37 PM
that doesn't make any sense at all. The whole point of a cap is to act as a cap, not a guideline that doesn't matter.

While I agree pretty much with your list based on talent, TMS, I'm pretty sure they can't go above a 25 million dollar or so cap. that means after kittles and walker they can split a few hundred thousand on thirteen players. kittles, walker and others will only be taken to be traded/redirected.

25 million divided by 15 players means an average of about 1.6 mill each. since they will have the exceptions to work with (the first and second rounders will balance out with a guaranteed minimum of 3 mill and 600,000 between them) and it might be a tad above 25 million, say they can spend an average of 2 million each.

now go back and reconfigure. briggs list looks about on point...
TMS
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6/14/2004  4:45 PM
read this...this is what i read that made me think that my roster was possible:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_8594.shtml
THE EXPANSION DRAFT

Depending on how the NBA Finals shake out, the Charlotte Bobcats will hold their expansion draft on either June 22nd or June 23rd. This Expansion draft allows for The Cats to populate their initial roster with existing players left “unprotected” by teams. There are some interesting side notes to this process that make Charlotte worth watching. The Bobcats will have a limited salary cap in their first two seasons, but in the Expansion draft, they will be permitted to populate their roster without regards to the cap, meaning the Cats could take all of the high priced players teams left exposed. While no official list has been released detailing who the Cats could draft, it’s believed teams left most of their unfavorable contracts exposed, should the Cats select a high priced player, the team that loses the player will get a coveted “traded player exception” for the value of the contract they lose. Since the Cats will have no cap flexibility for two years anyway, any contract with two years or less becomes a serious consideration especially players like Jerry Stackhouse and Antoine Walker having been left unprotected. The Cats have said from Day 1 they hope to field a young energetic team that can compete, but with the ability to far exceed their league imposed salary cap limitations in the Expansion draft; the Cats could field a serious team. Here are some of the details of the Expansion Draft you should consider: The Bobcats will select a minimum of 14 players who are under contract or restricted free agents for the 2004-05 season. The Cats may select no more than one player from each team. The Cats can only select players that are left unprotected by a team. NBA teams may protect a maximum of eight players on its roster who are under contract or are restricted free agents at the conclusion of the 2003-04 season. Teams will designate the players on its roster who are eligible for selection by the Bobcats. Teams were required to designate at least one player on its roster to be eligible for selection by the Bobcats, even if the team does not have eight players under contract or as restricted free agents for the 2004-05 season. Any player under contract selected by the Bobcats will immediately be placed on the Bobcats roster. Any eligible restricted free agent selected by the Bobcats shall immediately become an unrestricted free agent. Teams will be permitted to enter into pre-Expansion Draft trades in which Charlotte agrees to select or not select certain unprotected players. Teams can offer cash compensation up to $3 million to influence a trade. Charlotte will be permitted to select players in the Expansion Draft without regard to the Salary Cap. After the Cats have made their selection, they will have to fit any remaining player transaction under the Salary Cap. The Cats will have a Salary Cap in its first season equal to 66% of the Salary Cap established for 2004-2005. The Cats will have a Salary Cap in its second season equal to75% of the Salary Cap established for 2005-2006. Charlotte will be permitted to sign any restricted free agent it selects in the Expansion Draft using the same “Bird,” “Early Bird” or “Non-Bird” Exception that the player’s prior team would have had. Contracts terminated by The Cats prior to the start of the 2004-05 season for lack of skill will be excluded from Charlotte’s Team Salary. A team with a Team Salary above the Salary Cap will receive a Trade Exception to replace a player (other than a restricted free agent) selected from its unprotected list. Teams will not be permitted to reacquire a player that it loses in the Expansion Draft prior to the expiration of one year from the date of the Expansion Draft, unless the player is waived and not claimed by any other team.

[Edited by - TMS on 06/14/2004 16:46:06]
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Chico
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6/14/2004  4:52 PM
Wow. Looks like you're right. I initially took the phrasing to mean they didn't have to abide by the cap while selecting, but that they'd have to trade away the excess salaries to teams with cap space before the season started and the roster was written in stone.

Here's another question: they're required to select a minimum of 14 players (and can actually choose up to 29) With their two picks thats a roster of 16 players (not counting free agent signings or anyother picks they grab to take crappy players) since an nba roster max is 15, who pays the players who get cut? it seems right off the bat, they're going to have to cut someone and still pay them. whats up with that?
Chico
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6/14/2004  4:54 PM
The team as TMS has chosen could've made the playoffs in the east this year (and swept a Thomas-less, Houston-less Knicks)
TMS
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6/14/2004  4:58 PM
i wish i could clarify more for you but i know just as much as you do now after reading this article in regards to this whole expansion trade scenario.
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BRIGGS
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6/14/2004  5:32 PM
here's where you are wrong. although charlotte can add any amount they want during the picks, they WONT. it's NOT good business to be over the cap year 1 and the roster you filled is well over 50$ not including roster spots 13-15.

I can see one or two deals of medium range where they give a team good sdalary relief for a pick

i.e jerome james and 5.5mm for pick 12
then mostly stock up on guys that cost very little who have had no playing time sprkinled in with some vets. you are NOT winning off the bat--your best bet is a combination of being bad in order to secure a top 3 pick again--same thing charlotte did when they got zo and larry johnson and letting these guys get solid PT in hopes that 1-2-3 of them really come off great.

what does kerry kittles and antoine walker represent other than 25mm$ in cap alone?

You have a high draft pick -- perhaps you aqcuire another solid one
you keep the salaries down with mostly all players who havent gotten PT--during the season perhaps take one salary dump to add a draft pick to next years draft and thats it.

getting guys like kandiman walker and kittles wont happen IMHO. to much money no upside to the franchise
RIP Crushalot😞
TMS
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6/14/2004  5:52 PM
lol. i didn't know i could be wrong in a survey asking posters what THEY would do if they were the Bobcats.
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BRIGGS
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6/14/2004  6:00 PM
why would you field a team over the cap that has no chance of winning anyway? its bad business. their cap will be under 25MM for many reasons. Kittles and walker alone are worth more than 25MM and you would be taking valuable PT away from the guys you want to breakout guys like fizer wallace etc.... what is your reasoning behind such a hefty payroll?

RIP Crushalot😞
TMS
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6/14/2004  6:17 PM
C - Michael Olowakandi / Brian Skinner / Jahidi White
PF - Antoine Walker / Marcus Fizer
SF - Gerald Wallace / Jumaine Jones
SG - Kerry Kittles / Qyntel Woods
PG - Ben Gordon (#4 lottery pick) / Chucky Atkins / Keyon Dooling

that team would kill the team you put together...i don't see how you assume they wouldn't win.
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simrud
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6/14/2004  8:59 PM
This is not NBA Live 2004.

Olowokandi just came of a season in which he regressed so far, that at this point, I'm not sure he can even play in the NBA, let alone start. Even at his best, he will never be better then 12 10 and 2. At his money it simply a waste for a team that does not have the roster to complement and hide a soft C like him. Besides, how do you think his confidence will fare after he realizes he was basically dumped to an expansion team?

Walker would have to be your first option on the team. Thats horrible. He is a 3rd option at best. He is also a bad leader. In Boston Pearce lead. He is alos a huge contract. His only value for the Cats is the fact that he is an expiring deal.

Kittles earns relatively alot, and does very little. He was the startin shooting guard on a team taht could not throw it in the ocean against anybody bu the KNICKS. He is old, banged up, and just plain sucks.

Gerard Wallace has done nothing. Absolutley nothing in the NBA to warrant a startin job. He is a Miles withou any sense of organized bball. He is a great pickup to develop, but he wil NEVER be part of a winnin team's startin five NEXT YEAR.

Ben Gordon is not even a PG. He is an Iverson like dominate the ball combo guard. He is a rook. You want him to share the ball with Walker. You want him to run a team w/out shooters. That's just settin him up for failure.

Jones and Fizer should be out of the NBA and will be pretty soon. Both suck bigtime, one has had multiple surgeries, another once made up on the worst forward tandems in the NBA history in a pathetic Cavs team along with an ancient Tyrone Hill
.

Woods is Geralrd Wallace #2. Way to deversify your projects lol.

Dooling alos does not belon gin the NBA. You can pick up better 3rd string pg's in the CBA and overseas.

Chucky and Skinner are nice role players. But they will have no rolles to play.

White? He guy has no position. Just a really fat dude at 6 9 who refuses to loose wate and get in shape. As of now he is a walkin faul machine.

The only team this team will compete for is the 1st pick. And they will be paying more then the sallary cap. No way they do it.

Stop the nonsense, you can't field a competetive team from an expansion draft. The talent pool int he diluted NBA is not even close to being that good.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
TMS
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6/14/2004  9:49 PM
maybe you should put together a team of your own if you think you could do better? i'd love to see what the experts think.
Olowokandi just came of a season in which he regressed so far, that at this point, I'm not sure he can even play in the NBA, let alone start. Even at his best, he will never be better then 12 10 and 2. At his money it simply a waste for a team that does not have the roster to complement and hide a soft C like him. Besides, how do you think his confidence will fare after he realizes he was basically dumped to an expansion team?

that's pretty funny...those numbers you just quoted are better than the numbers Kurt Thomas put up this season...& they both make the same amount of money...i guess you consider $5 million a year to be an exorbitant amount of money for a 7' C who you yourself said could produce those types of numbers?
Walker would have to be your first option on the team. Thats horrible. He is a 3rd option at best. He is also a bad leader. In Boston Pearce lead. He is alos a huge contract. His only value for the Cats is the fact that he is an expiring deal.

he's not the best candidate, but out of the available choices i'd say you can't do much better...or didn't you look at the list of unprotected players in that link?
Kittles earns relatively alot, and does very little. He was the startin shooting guard on a team taht could not throw it in the ocean against anybody bu the KNICKS. He is old, banged up, and just plain sucks.

Kittles is 30...that's not exactly "old" in the NBA dude...& he's the best available SG out of that list...maybe you should actually read the article in the link before you criticize someone else's post on the topic?

but excuse me...i didn't mean to challenge your expert knowledge on this topic on this OPINION based survey...next time i'll ask you first before i post on the topic.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
simrud
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6/14/2004  10:22 PM
Bro, i'm just sayin that you can't build a competetive team with an expansion draft. It wasnt meant to peronally offend you at all. Its just silly to think that an exapnsion team will go over cap and build a competitor out of other teams garabage. That's all it meant.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
BRIGGS
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6/14/2004  10:23 PM
i spent half the money you did causing me to not only save 25mm in salaries but becoming eligible for a fat LT rebate-- i accomplish getting another very high pick or two because i WANT to lose the most games possible, i have a whole year to evaluate a multitude of young players and go into year 2 of a 3 year building process in great shape. By the way I wouldnt pick Ben Gordon #4, I would take Josh Smith and if I can get that 12 pick from Seattle I'd use it on Kosta Perovic and wait on him overseas.

the goal for an expansion team is to build the best possible team in a 3 year period while keeping costs at a minimum--like any business just starting out. I only spend when im ramping up--which is not year 1.
RIP Crushalot😞
saw the expansion list should be easy pickings

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