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Calderon has little game sans the three point shot
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BRIGGS
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12/5/2014  8:35 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/5/2014  8:36 AM
It's either feast or famine at this point. He cant get to the rim he wont take a pull up 2 he cant guard. It's either his 3 pt shot is on or off. We are missing out on a second potential max free agent for this? At this point Jose Calderon's level of play=back up.
RIP Crushalot😞
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fishmike
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12/5/2014  8:40 AM
BRIGGS wrote:It's either feast or famine at this point. He cant get to the rim he wont take a pull up 2 he cant guard. It's either his 3 pt shot is on or off. We are missing out on a second potential max free agent for this? At this point Jose Calderon's level of play=back up.
we was outclassed last night by one of the bright young emerging stars in the league. He's good, he's not great and when the guy your guarding is great thats gonna make you look a lot worse.

He does a lot. He's a nice stop gap floor general As for the offseason lets wait and see. If they passed on Larkin's $1.6mm option they have a plan. It might be crap but there is something there. Lets see it unfold.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
GoNyGoNyGo
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12/5/2014  8:43 AM
I think Calderon is deferring to Melo and he needs to stop that and lead this team because it does not have a leader on the floor. Although STAT is looking like one and if he can stay healthy...who knows.
Splat
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12/5/2014  8:50 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/5/2014  8:50 AM
If Calderon is not instrumental in getting the team to play cohesively, then his shooting is not going to make up for the compensatory damages of having a leaderless club.

He hasn't played much yet, so to be fair he should be given some leeway, but I suspect the storyline that he could be the teacher who leads the flock may have been a bit fanciful.

I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
VCoug
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12/5/2014  8:53 AM
I don't know what you're expecting. He's a solid assist guy, not spectacular, and an elite 3-point shooter. He's not a top-10, maybe top-15, PG in the league. He's a great role player on a good team but if a team is relying on him, like we are, that team's not going to be very good.
Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
newyorknewyork
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12/5/2014  9:24 AM
There are many teams around the league that can use his shooting ability.
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BRIGGS
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12/5/2014  9:31 AM
VCoug wrote:I don't know what you're expecting. He's a solid assist guy, not spectacular, and an elite 3-point shooter. He's not a top-10, maybe top-15, PG in the league. He's a great role player on a good team but if a team is relying on him, like we are, that team's not going to be very good.

In terms of salary allocation and giving up a max free agent slot--paying him an avg of 7.6 MILLION for the next two years--I need to expect more. I cant pay a 2mm $ player 7.5mm$. So the plan was to give up partial FA for a PG who has no chance at finishing at the rim who can't guard a huge role for the next two and a half years? I like his ability to hit the three--he seems to be an intense guy but I don't see this as a material player or lead guard for a team that wants to win big in anyway. Basically on a really good team--hes the back up PG--right? If I look at good teams

Chicago--Derek Rose
Toronto-Lowry
Milwaukee Knight
Cleveland-Irving
Atlanta-Teague
Washington-Wall
Portland-Lillard
San Antoni-Parker
La Clippers_Paul
Phoenix Dragic
Memphis-Conley
Golden State-Curry
OKC--lets put them in there because their record is skewed and they have avg 60 wins the last 3 Westbrook
Only Houston and Dallas of the teams who are "good" dont have PG who are elite level players. If you want to do analytics on this--lets keep the math easy. More than 90% of the teams with a winning record have elite level PG's and we are playing with a 34 year old back up player talent who is quite limited in game.

While we can say triangle--math says PG is a very very important position in the NBA

RIP Crushalot😞
gunsnewing
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12/5/2014  9:37 AM
I don't know what it is about euro ball that makes guys like calderon & Prigioni allergic to driving
F500ONE
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12/5/2014  9:50 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/5/2014  12:09 PM
Calderon is a good guy and probably wonderful teammate to have

But nevertheless he was always oversold on this forum


The fact Phil added more salary to the 2015 cap and we

Have him for another 2 more yrs is kind of concerning

VCoug
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12/5/2014  10:09 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
VCoug wrote:I don't know what you're expecting. He's a solid assist guy, not spectacular, and an elite 3-point shooter. He's not a top-10, maybe top-15, PG in the league. He's a great role player on a good team but if a team is relying on him, like we are, that team's not going to be very good.

In terms of salary allocation and giving up a max free agent slot--paying him an avg of 7.6 MILLION for the next two years--I need to expect more. I cant pay a 2mm $ player 7.5mm$. So the plan was to give up partial FA for a PG who has no chance at finishing at the rim who can't guard a huge role for the next two and a half years? I like his ability to hit the three--he seems to be an intense guy but I don't see this as a material player or lead guard for a team that wants to win big in anyway. Basically on a really good team--hes the back up PG--right? If I look at good teams

Chicago--Derek Rose
Toronto-Lowry
Milwaukee Knight
Cleveland-Irving
Atlanta-Teague
Washington-Wall
Portland-Lillard
San Antoni-Parker
La Clippers_Paul
Phoenix Dragic
Memphis-Conley
Golden State-Curry
OKC--lets put them in there because their record is skewed and they have avg 60 wins the last 3 Westbrook
Only Houston and Dallas of the teams who are "good" dont have PG who are elite level players. If you want to do analytics on this--lets keep the math easy. More than 90% of the teams with a winning record have elite level PG's and we are playing with a 34 year old back up player talent who is quite limited in game.

While we can say triangle--math says PG is a very very important position in the NBA

Like I said, he's a role player not a star. If he's your 4th or 5th starter your fine but if you're relying on him help carry your team, like we are, you're probably ****ed.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
Splat
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12/5/2014  10:29 AM
Nixluva was making a big deal about how Calderon's return would turn the team around. Mabye now that may not be the case, he's run out of causes for optimism, because he hasn't been around for a week.
I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell!
gunsnewing
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12/5/2014  10:31 AM
Being locked in to calderon for 2yrs isnt the end of the world. We need a top 3 pick and good FA. Calderon becomes the 3rd or 4th option.

Now it would be nice if we had kept Larkin to make up for Calderon's lack of quickness and defensive intensity

fishmike
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12/5/2014  10:43 AM
Splat wrote:Nixluva was making a big deal about how Calderon's return would turn the team around. Mabye now that may not be the case, he's run out of causes for optimism, because he hasn't been around for a week.
to be fair they have played much better. They havent won but all these games have been pretty tight.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
StarksEwing1
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12/5/2014  10:47 AM
Splat wrote:Nixluva was making a big deal about how Calderon's return would turn the team around. Mabye now that may not be the case, he's run out of causes for optimism, because he hasn't been around for a week.
optimism is fine as long as you are realistic. Im always pretty optimistic but i knew this year was gonna be rough
BRIGGS
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12/5/2014  12:26 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/5/2014  12:29 PM
gunsnewing wrote:Being locked in to calderon for 2yrs isnt the end of the world. We need a top 3 pick and good FA. Calderon becomes the 3rd or 4th option.

Now it would be nice if we had kept Larkin to make up for Calderon's lack of quickness and defensive intensity

If we can get ok4 a lot of problems would be solved. If we did get Ok4 I would try almost anything to add either of Kaminsky Stein or Johnson later in the round if they fell past 18 or so short of giving up Melo(unfortunately thats why losing the high 2 hurts) Even with both guys I would DEFINITELY try to sign Amare back for 2 years 1 guaranteed for 4-5 each. Keep Acy and Aldrich at cheap. Id even be willing to go 1 year rentals with my cap space for picks. I think we can improve next year--but no chance of winning big so cap space can be used on as need basis. If no FA is there then use it to bring back assets(like bringing Mcgee a yougin and a pick. I think we can set up for BIG 2016 if we play cards right and have some luck.

RIP Crushalot😞
gunsnewing
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12/5/2014  12:37 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Being locked in to calderon for 2yrs isnt the end of the world. We need a top 3 pick and good FA. Calderon becomes the 3rd or 4th option.

Now it would be nice if we had kept Larkin to make up for Calderon's lack of quickness and defensive intensity

If we can get ok4 a lot of problems would be solved. If we did get Ok4 I would try almost anything to add either of Kaminsky Stein or Johnson later in the round if they fell past 18 or so short of giving up Melo(unfortunately thats why losing the high 2 hurts) Even with both guys I would DEFINITELY try to sign Amare back for 2 years 1 guaranteed for 4-5 each. Keep Acy and Aldrich at cheap. Id even be willing to go 1 year rentals with my cap space for picks. I think we can improve next year--but no chance of winning big so cap space can be used on as need basis. If no FA is there then use it to bring back assets(like bringing Mcgee a yougin and a pick. I think we can set up for BIG 2016 if we play cards right and have some luck.

yea the only thing is with Calderon. He is not going to be able to break down defenses with penetration getting guys like OK4 easy points in the paint

I really don't know man. Phil might've F'd up

djsunyc
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12/5/2014  12:38 PM
jose can play pick and roll. he is castrated in the triangle. combine that with no defense basically makes him a spot up shooter.
gunsnewing
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12/5/2014  12:40 PM
djsunyc wrote:jose can play pick and roll. he is castrated in the triangle. combine that with no defense basically makes him a spot up shooter.

yea Knicks are in a major conundrum

Finestrg
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12/5/2014  1:49 PM
I don't care what he's doing now, I didn't respect or want Chandler anymore. Dude was a malcontent, a crybaby, a limited player that never added to his game, he was sick all the time and just plain old overrated. You can't pick and chose when you wanna play hard -- for the money we were paying him, you play hard all the time!! And this guy didn't...Didn't provide nearly enough leadership, leadership this team desperately needed out of him. Unloading Chandler--that part of the trade I agreed with and had no problem with at all. Still in his prime more or less, a sizable expiring contract (in itself, a HUGE asset we had) and still presumably had decent value around the league -- at least to Mark Cuban he did...However, I had a big problem taking back Calderon's salary. After the trade, like everyone else I was in 'OK, what's done is done' mode and chose to focus on the positives: the young players, the picks, etc...I even thought Calderon could maybe give us something close to Steve Nash (poor man's Nash of course)--but sadly, that doesn't look like the case. Not only can't he penetrate the ball, he's a poor defender and the biggest surprise to me--he doesn't take great care of the ball for someone with his level of experience. How many brutal cross-court, low % passes have we seen out of this guy? How many times do we see him just inexplicably cough up the ball? That's the part of Jose's game that's most alarming to me--you'd expect an older vet PG of his caliber to at least take good care of the ball, right? He makes what, 7X the amount Pablo makes and is a few years younger yet truth be told, Pablo's probably the better overall player.

I said at the time that this would've been a great trade to make IF we could've swapped out Calderon for someone else, maybe a Brandan Wright and/or other filler. I didn't even care about holding tight on Felton -- yeah, he just went through the trouble off the court and his value had hit rock bottom but the bottom line is he was less years and less per year than Calderon. When you wish to rebuild quickly through FA and are contemplating dealing off a sizable expiring contract, future cap space is paramount and must be considered above all else, even over what Jose Calderon could give us (which doesn't look to be much as it turns out )...I think if Phil would've declined and been more patient, we could've gotten a more favorable deal outta Cuban in time. Cuban wanted Chandler--dude regretted trading him the first time and really wanted him back. And he works well there with Dirk and co. They knew that the first time around. They won it all with him. The proof was in the pudding...I just don't see how, in the position we were in of trying to maintain optimum cap flexibility for the summer of 2015 and 2016, you take a big expiring asset like Chandler and instead of taking back nothing but a fellow expiring contract(s), young players and/or picks, you take back a large long-term deal like Calderon's. How does that happen? Didn't he realize Calderon wasn't putting us over any hump, that his contract sucked and that he put our rebuilding plans in jeopardy or at least hampered them a great deal??? Just my opinion but I feel Cuban would've caved and we could've gotten a more favorable deal. I mean you explain it to Cuban -- "sorry Cubes, we're semi-rebuilding on the fly here and can't take back any long-term commitments for Chandler. I understand you want Tyson back. Still interested in a trade--let us know if you come up with any counter proposals." I betcha he would've. That dude's passionate and gets what he wants. We should've exploited that. Instead, this deal comes off like Phil got played..

mreinman
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12/5/2014  2:43 PM
Splat wrote:Nixluva was making a big deal about how Calderon's return would turn the team around. Mabye now that may not be the case, he's run out of causes for optimism, because he hasn't been around for a week.

bargs still in pocket

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Calderon has little game sans the three point shot

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