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So When Do We Start to Consider Trading Jose Calderon?
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NardDogNation
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11/13/2014  1:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/13/2014  1:19 PM
As I said when we first acquired him, Jose is a "cherry on top" kind of player: you don't build a winner with him, you add him to a winner e.g. Trevor Ariza with the Lakers, Boris Diaw the Spurs, Chris Andersen/Shane Battier with the Heat, James Posey with the Celtics, etc. I think with each passing day that this point becomes more salient given Calderon's injury history, age and limitations in his game. He doesn't have any utility on a rebuilding/retooling team, which is why the Pistons let him walk for nothing to Dallas. This, however, does not change the fact that Jose is still a pretty good player that other ready-made contenders could use in their rotation. After he regains his health, it would be in the best interest of the team to trade him and recoup longer term assets that we can use to become a contender. Here are a few teams we should look to trade him to:

1.) The Miami Heat- they lack a true floor general and are still very much in win-now mode. If Wade goes down, they'd be left with no one that could handle the ball or get the team into its offense. I'd be interested in a deal that brings me back Norris Cole and Shabazz Napier, along with whatever fillers necessary to make the deal work.

2.) The Houston Rockets- they have an unconventional system that doesn't require a traditional guard but Calderon is versatile enough and talented enough to be an immediate upgrade on that team. Heading into the playoffs, I'd be hesitant to trust a rookie-ish PG like Isiah Cannan and Patrick Beverly; especially after how exposed the Rockets were at PG when they played the Blazers in the first round. I'd do Jose Calderon for Jason Terry and a protected first round pick.

3.) The Oklahoma City Thunder- they are set at PG but let's face it, Reggie Jackson isn't going to stick around there long-term and Russell Westbrook does not consistently get guys shots. The Thunder don't have much dead weight on their roster though, so a trade would be hard to finagle. I could see a Calderon for Reggie Jackson being the framework for a deal but the contracts would be hard to balance and we'd definitely need to include additional assets as well.

4.) The Sacramento Kings- they are no contenders but are dumb enough to think that they can get there in spite of the front office's ineptitude. It seems like their only interest is in saving their jobs and say "yes" to any dumb edicts that Randeive issues. With them off to a hot start, I could see them being even more emboldened to make a dumb trade, which we should be more than happy to oblige. I'd be willing to do Jose Calderon and a contract for Ramon Sessions, Derrick Williams and a poorly protected 2015 1st round pick. When they fall back down to Earth and miss the playoffs, we'd be sitting pretty with $7 million in freed up cap room and an additional lottery pick.

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Knicks1969
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11/13/2014  1:36 PM
Too early to consider trading him. He is a smart guy who can easily adapt to any system. Keep him around to coach others how to properly run the triangle. Phil had the right idea when he brought Lamar to the team to be the triangle coach on the court, but unfortunately it did not work.
Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
NardDogNation
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11/13/2014  2:08 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:Too early to consider trading him. He is a smart guy who can easily adapt to any system. Keep him around to coach others how to properly run the triangle. Phil had the right idea when he brought Lamar to the team to be the triangle coach on the court, but unfortunately it did not work.

Calderon hasn't played a regular season game in the triangle. Now all of a sudden he's capable of teaching people how to play in it? And is his contribution worth more than the potential of a top tier pick in the 2015 draft? I think there is far more value in the pick than him, so I'd move him ASAP before he fixes our offense and makes us mediocre enough to not ensure a top 5 pick.

F500ONE
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11/13/2014  2:13 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/13/2014  2:24 PM
I find it bizarre Calderon won't practice

I find it bizarre Bargnani's return seems to be tied to Calderon


Starting to question the spirit and will to play from these two

EnySpree
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11/13/2014  2:17 PM
We Can't consider any trades until this dude comes back.... it's too early to be talking about trading this guy. He probably will fix alot of our offensive problems. He's already actively coaching his teammates from the bench so the guy is invaluable going forward. Just gotta get him healthy to see if his contributions is worth keeping apart of the big puzzle
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NardDogNation
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11/13/2014  2:28 PM
EnySpree wrote:We Can't consider any trades until this dude comes back.... it's too early to be talking about trading this guy. He probably will fix alot of our offensive problems. He's already actively coaching his teammates from the bench so the guy is invaluable going forward. Just gotta get him healthy to see if his contributions is worth keeping apart of the big puzzle

What's more imperative to you, a lottery pick or Jose Calderon?

EnySpree
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11/13/2014  2:36 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
EnySpree wrote:We Can't consider any trades until this dude comes back.... it's too early to be talking about trading this guy. He probably will fix alot of our offensive problems. He's already actively coaching his teammates from the bench so the guy is invaluable going forward. Just gotta get him healthy to see if his contributions is worth keeping apart of the big puzzle

What's more imperative to you, a lottery pick or Jose Calderon?

Who are you drafting? Give me players 5 you are targeting in the draft. If you are banking on that then take up basket weaving because then you are talking about waiting 4-5 years down the line.

I'm committed to the Knicks. I don't care about draft picks or Calderón. Right now I want to see Calderón on the court. I have no interest to talk about a draft pick. Maybe in 3 months.

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NYKBocker
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11/13/2014  2:40 PM
I wouldn't. His outside shooting is too important right now. Maybe at the trade deadline if we continue to suck.
NardDogNation
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11/13/2014  2:40 PM
F500ONE wrote:I find it bizarre Calderon won't practice

I find it bizarre Bargnani's return seems to be tied to Calderon


Starting to question the spirit and will to play from these two

Andrea Bargnani is a certifiable bum who is just going through the motions. As Jalen Rose would say, he's a "keep getting dem checks guy". Nothing wrong with that but I just don't want it on my team when we desperately need talent. He'll never see a multi-year deal again and I highly doubt he'll be in the league next season.

Calderon is none of that. He has a sense of pride about his game that is admirable. Case and point, he could not even guard a chair but when you watch him, he's fundamentally sound and always hustling. Calderon's problem is that every now and again his body betrays him. It ain't uncommon for him to miss 20% or so of a season so none of what is happening is a surprise to me. When he's healthy though, he's a good player to have but I don't see his purpose on a team that clearly needs to be re-built.

NardDogNation
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11/13/2014  2:50 PM
EnySpree wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
EnySpree wrote:We Can't consider any trades until this dude comes back.... it's too early to be talking about trading this guy. He probably will fix alot of our offensive problems. He's already actively coaching his teammates from the bench so the guy is invaluable going forward. Just gotta get him healthy to see if his contributions is worth keeping apart of the big puzzle

What's more imperative to you, a lottery pick or Jose Calderon?

Who are you drafting? Give me players 5 you are targeting in the draft. If you are banking on that then take up basket weaving because then you are talking about waiting 4-5 years down the line.

I'm committed to the Knicks. I don't care about draft picks or Calderón. Right now I want to see Calderón on the court. I have no interest to talk about a draft pick. Maybe in 3 months.

Did it take 4-5 years for Kawhi Leonard to become Finals MVP? Did it take 4-5 seasons for Damien Lillard to become an all-star? Did it take Paul George 4-5 seasons for him to become a supposed superstar? The reality is that most contenders have a player that was recently drafted who is balling out of control. We need to follow suit. No, the guy might not be an immediate impact player but we'd likely get better production out of him than we would a veteran filling the same role. The only difference is that the rookie has a chance to get exponentially better, locked into the same deal.

As for the top 5 players, they are not at all different than what I'm see on nbadraft.net

H1AND1
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11/13/2014  2:55 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
EnySpree wrote:We Can't consider any trades until this dude comes back.... it's too early to be talking about trading this guy. He probably will fix alot of our offensive problems. He's already actively coaching his teammates from the bench so the guy is invaluable going forward. Just gotta get him healthy to see if his contributions is worth keeping apart of the big puzzle

What's more imperative to you, a lottery pick or Jose Calderon?

Who are you drafting? Give me players 5 you are targeting in the draft. If you are banking on that then take up basket weaving because then you are talking about waiting 4-5 years down the line.

I'm committed to the Knicks. I don't care about draft picks or Calderón. Right now I want to see Calderón on the court. I have no interest to talk about a draft pick. Maybe in 3 months.

Did it take 4-5 years for Kawhi Leonard to become Finals MVP? Did it take 4-5 seasons for Damien Lillard to become an all-star? Did it take Paul George 4-5 seasons for him to become a supposed superstar? The reality is that most contenders have a player that was recently drafted who is balling out of control. We need to follow suit. No, the guy might not be an immediate impact player but we'd likely get better production out of him than we would a veteran filling the same role. The only difference is that the rookie has a chance to get exponentially better, locked into the same deal.

As for the top 5 players, they are not at all different than what I'm see on nbadraft.net

You are 100% correct.

I never get the argument that wanting high draft picks means years and years of futility. This, coming from Knicks fans who have suffered through just that because it's not like the Knicks free agent signings and trade acquisitions over the past say, decade or so have so successful and/or put us into contention. Time for a new approach perhaps.

BRIGGS
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11/13/2014  3:01 PM
EnySpree wrote:We Can't consider any trades until this dude comes back.... it's too early to be talking about trading this guy. He probably will fix alot of our offensive problems. He's already actively coaching his teammates from the bench so the guy is invaluable going forward. Just gotta get him healthy to see if his contributions is worth keeping apart of the big puzzle

This is fair. It does sck to think we have to consider the draft 8-9 games in. We usually sck and have no pick so this is a first in a long time.

That being said we have to see the team with Bargs at C and Calderon at PG to be fair. I'm not confidant that we will have sustained health especially from our FC but it would be very reasonable to see the team whole.

RIP Crushalot😞
EnySpree
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11/13/2014  3:04 PM
H1AND1 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
EnySpree wrote:We Can't consider any trades until this dude comes back.... it's too early to be talking about trading this guy. He probably will fix alot of our offensive problems. He's already actively coaching his teammates from the bench so the guy is invaluable going forward. Just gotta get him healthy to see if his contributions is worth keeping apart of the big puzzle

What's more imperative to you, a lottery pick or Jose Calderon?

Who are you drafting? Give me players 5 you are targeting in the draft. If you are banking on that then take up basket weaving because then you are talking about waiting 4-5 years down the line.

I'm committed to the Knicks. I don't care about draft picks or Calderón. Right now I want to see Calderón on the court. I have no interest to talk about a draft pick. Maybe in 3 months.

Did it take 4-5 years for Kawhi Leonard to become Finals MVP? Did it take 4-5 seasons for Damien Lillard to become an all-star? Did it take Paul George 4-5 seasons for him to become a supposed superstar? The reality is that most contenders have a player that was recently drafted who is balling out of control. We need to follow suit. No, the guy might not be an immediate impact player but we'd likely get better production out of him than we would a veteran filling the same role. The only difference is that the rookie has a chance to get exponentially better, locked into the same deal.

As for the top 5 players, they are not at all different than what I'm see on nbadraft.net

You are 100% correct.

I never get the argument that wanting high draft picks means years and years of futility. This, coming from Knicks fans who have suffered through just that because it's not like the Knicks free agent signings and trade acquisitions over the past say, decade or so have so successful and/or put us into contention. Time for a new approach perhaps.

With 73 games left you want to talk draft picks?

Leonard is on the spurs with their big 3 still intact. Lillard team matured just in time when he came along. Paul George also came on to a Indiana team coming together at the right time.

Can we talk about the cavs and how great they have been since Lebron left? How about Kevin love and his championship years in Minnesota.

You can flip it how you like to make your points make sense.

Bottom line is, it's only game 9. 73 games left. In January February we can talk about trading calderon.

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EnySpree
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11/13/2014  3:09 PM
And who are you targeting in the draft? If we're talking just to get a chance at a nobody then what is the urgency? Let's trade away good players now to get a chance at who?

So you are following a prayer to God that he will send us an elite player In the lottery? What if we get tyres Thomas or Yinka dare? Do we then stay 50 threads talking about how stupid the Knicks were for drafting that player?

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H1AND1
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11/13/2014  3:11 PM
EnySpree wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
EnySpree wrote:We Can't consider any trades until this dude comes back.... it's too early to be talking about trading this guy. He probably will fix alot of our offensive problems. He's already actively coaching his teammates from the bench so the guy is invaluable going forward. Just gotta get him healthy to see if his contributions is worth keeping apart of the big puzzle

What's more imperative to you, a lottery pick or Jose Calderon?

Who are you drafting? Give me players 5 you are targeting in the draft. If you are banking on that then take up basket weaving because then you are talking about waiting 4-5 years down the line.

I'm committed to the Knicks. I don't care about draft picks or Calderón. Right now I want to see Calderón on the court. I have no interest to talk about a draft pick. Maybe in 3 months.

Did it take 4-5 years for Kawhi Leonard to become Finals MVP? Did it take 4-5 seasons for Damien Lillard to become an all-star? Did it take Paul George 4-5 seasons for him to become a supposed superstar? The reality is that most contenders have a player that was recently drafted who is balling out of control. We need to follow suit. No, the guy might not be an immediate impact player but we'd likely get better production out of him than we would a veteran filling the same role. The only difference is that the rookie has a chance to get exponentially better, locked into the same deal.

As for the top 5 players, they are not at all different than what I'm see on nbadraft.net

You are 100% correct.

I never get the argument that wanting high draft picks means years and years of futility. This, coming from Knicks fans who have suffered through just that because it's not like the Knicks free agent signings and trade acquisitions over the past say, decade or so have so successful and/or put us into contention. Time for a new approach perhaps.

With 73 games left you want to talk draft picks?

Leonard is on the spurs with their big 3 still intact. Lillard team matured just in time when he came along. Paul George also came on to a Indiana team coming together at the right time.

Can we talk about the cavs and how great they have been since Lebron left? How about Kevin love and his championship years in Minnesota.

You can flip it how you like to make your points make sense.

Bottom line is, it's only game 9. 73 games left. In January February we can talk about trading calderon.

Yes, because it's already pretty clear this team is not very good. Even if they rally and become a decent team I dont think they beat anyone in the playoffs. So yeah, Id rather have a high draft pick than be just outside the 8th seed and/or getting shellacked in the first round.

Believe me if the team had a legit shot or was 1 player away from making noise Id be singing a different tune. This team just doesnt have the talent. Not 1 player in the top 100 outside Melo and Calderon who'd start on a contender. Hell, most of these guy's arent even rotation players on contenders. That's the reality.

H1AND1
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11/13/2014  3:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/13/2014  3:13 PM
EnySpree wrote:And who are you targeting in the draft? If we're talking just to get a chance at a nobody then what is the urgency? Let's trade away good players now to get a chance at who?

So you are following a prayer to God that he will send us an elite player In the lottery? What if we get tyres Thomas or Yinka dare? Do we then stay 50 threads talking about how stupid the Knicks were for drafting that player?

Those are the breaks. Just like signing Amare for 100 mil and he plays one season dooming us to failure.

And honestly I havent looked at this draft class yet (not like im en expert or a scout). But there is always a chance to draft a nice young player who might turn out to be a star. This can only help as we build over the next couple years when we have cap room and will be rid of guys like Bargs and Amare. All im saying.

EnySpree
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11/13/2014  3:20 PM
H1AND1 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:And who are you targeting in the draft? If we're talking just to get a chance at a nobody then what is the urgency? Let's trade away good players now to get a chance at who?

So you are following a prayer to God that he will send us an elite player In the lottery? What if we get tyres Thomas or Yinka dare? Do we then stay 50 threads talking about how stupid the Knicks were for drafting that player?

Those are the breaks. Just like signing Amare for 100 mil and he plays one season dooming us to failure.

And honestly I havent looked at this draft class yet (not like im en expert or a scout). But there is always a chance to draft a nice young player who might turn out to be a star. This can only help as we build over the next couple years when we have cap room and will be rid of guys like Bargs and Amare. All im saying.

If you haven't even looked at the draft class then what are you debating? Instead of wasting time in here why don't you go to your place of worship and get the praying. You're wasting precious prayer time in here. Just dig a hole and stay there until your prayers are answered. Then you can say you were right

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Knixkik
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11/13/2014  3:29 PM
EnySpree wrote:And who are you targeting in the draft? If we're talking just to get a chance at a nobody then what is the urgency? Let's trade away good players now to get a chance at who?

So you are following a prayer to God that he will send us an elite player In the lottery? What if we get tyres Thomas or Yinka dare? Do we then stay 50 threads talking about how stupid the Knicks were for drafting that player?

The draft will always be more appealing to many people as it is the unknown, and the unknown is exciting. Just look at how many wanted to trade Melo for draft picks, when the likelihood you will ever turn those picks into that type of value is so low i won't even guess the probability. But its more fun so its what people want. That being said, we might as well play this out and keep Jose for the longterm, as clearly he is a fit for this team for the next few years. No need to "tank" or whatever. Wherever we land, we land. Some of the best and most talked-about young players in the league (Thompson, Leonard, Vucevic, Faried) were all drafted mid-first round. We have our own draft pick, so wherever it lands there should be a good player, we will just have to find him.

EnySpree
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11/13/2014  3:37 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
EnySpree wrote:We Can't consider any trades until this dude comes back.... it's too early to be talking about trading this guy. He probably will fix alot of our offensive problems. He's already actively coaching his teammates from the bench so the guy is invaluable going forward. Just gotta get him healthy to see if his contributions is worth keeping apart of the big puzzle

This is fair. It does sck to think we have to consider the draft 8-9 games in. We usually sck and have no pick so this is a first in a long time.

That being said we have to see the team with Bargs at C and Calderon at PG to be fair. I'm not confidant that we will have sustained health especially from our FC but it would be very reasonable to see the team whole.

It's a bigger picture than just praying for a savior.

Guys are auditioning for next season. I personally think calderon will be a good piece for what we're trying to do. I think Bargnani will surprise us too.

The draft is important but one can't simply say let's trade everyone and tank to get nobody.

The Knicks have Melo....we're probably going to keep quiet a few of the players on this roster. We'll have cap space to get some guys to fill in for the guys we ship.

So I'm not worried about anything. I truly believe Phil will make the necessary changes when the time is right. He said so himself.

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EnySpree
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11/13/2014  3:39 PM
Knixkik wrote:
EnySpree wrote:And who are you targeting in the draft? If we're talking just to get a chance at a nobody then what is the urgency? Let's trade away good players now to get a chance at who?

So you are following a prayer to God that he will send us an elite player In the lottery? What if we get tyres Thomas or Yinka dare? Do we then stay 50 threads talking about how stupid the Knicks were for drafting that player?

The draft will always be more appealing to many people as it is the unknown, and the unknown is exciting. Just look at how many wanted to trade Melo for draft picks, when the likelihood you will ever turn those picks into that type of value is so low i won't even guess the probability. But its more fun so its what people want. That being said, we might as well play this out and keep Jose for the longterm, as clearly he is a fit for this team for the next few years. No need to "tank" or whatever. Wherever we land, we land. Some of the best and most talked-about young players in the league (Thompson, Leonard, Vucevic, Faried) were all drafted mid-first round. We have our own draft pick, so wherever it lands there should be a good player, we will just have to find him.

That's how I feel about it.

73 games left in this season man....

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So When Do We Start to Consider Trading Jose Calderon?

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