Splat wrote:The real issue is how the clubs normalize salaries under the higher cap. Do they now pay a bigger max to the top players and still pay roughly the same to the rest of the squad or will there be salary drift upwards among all players?

The ideal outcome is max players outside of Lebron and Durant types do not get more and then you can afford two, even three maxes and still have salary left to build a good team.

We won't know the outcome of that trend until it happens in real time the season after next, but Phil is planning for it. My guess is Shump stays if he plays up to his abilities and if he is then considered the starting # 2 for the next 4 years it is probably $6-8M per.

Timmy would potentially supplant Shump only if he develops his defense and passing. Otherwise, he has the makings of being a top 6th man, a better version of 6th man JR.

And in that case, they both may have a future with the club.

I get that this is hypothetical and there are a lot of moving parts. I guess focus on the big picture. We have seen a lot of inconsistant play from shump, but most here would agree he's got a useful skill set, especially if healthy.

newyorknewyork wrote:Last yr I told a co-worker Knicks fan that Shump is gonna be a good basketball player. But its going ng to be when he is like 29 and no longer on the Knicks. After yrs of seasoning.

Really? I think the wait may be over and this is that time. I don't think it is five years away. If he is not ready this year, I don't think he will likely ever be. This situation is probably ideal right now and I see Fish and Phil as smart enough to make it possible for him to thrive.

nixluva wrote:People seem to keep forgetting that we have Phil in charge now. He's not going to be making stupid non basketball moves. Shump is a winning player in this system and being taught by guys that know what they're doing. The longer Shump is in this nurturing environment the better he's going to be. Talent in the hands of knowledgeable teachers will be maximized. We've NEVER seen Shump at his best yet. Maybe we'll finally get to see that this year.

He could continue to get better over the years in the right environment, but I think we'll see a real leap forward in his confidence, impact and production this year. Some guys simply must have the right culture to thrive in. Melo can go be stud scorer on a team of chipmunks, but Shump needs a system, a coach, respect and accountability to blossom.

It can be a chicken or egg thing with a guy like Shump. He got moody and felt alienated. Maybe his teammates got fed up with his attitude. They would freeze him out of plays (happened a boatload).

Shump needed to reboot his mindset and not wait for his teammates to love him back. He had to just become completely professional, practice the spiritual act of expressing gratitude like he said last night, and get back on the horse and earn everybody's respect.

I think it will be worth the wait. Not everybody gets along in the beginning and Shump needed to grow out of the teenage mindset and take his place on the stage. If Melo was not supportive, he will be if Shump is unwavering in his commitment and produces. Its almost better that way. Then they can bond over pride of achievement and not just because they are simpatico personalities. Winning heals a whole lot.

Splat wrote:I doubt anyone is ready to annoint Shump a sure thing for the long-term. This is his year to show he belongs. Prior to this he was poorly used by Woodson, so we will learn a great deal more about him this year than before. And he blew out his knee after having a really good rookie year. Maturity and healing have been big factors and both of those may be on the plus side of the column now. Its up to him. Some just see the possibility is really good if he clicks now.

I wouldn't blame it all on Woodson, his attitude sucked. He was acting like a big baby last season and he admitted it. I think it effected the team as well.

Bonn1997 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

fishmike wrote:My plan all along was a pump and dump. Get him playing well and send him to anyone for an expiring contract and a first rounder, even if its like pick 30.

Thoughts?

If Shumpert rebuilds his trade value this year, he will still only be a short term rental at the trade deadline, and that lingering question of "Is This A Future Core Guy?" will simply pass onto the new team in any deal. The most the Knicks are likely to get is a 2nd round pick.

The key issue here IMHO is that Melo and Calderon are the only true roster locks for the next three seasons ( I just don't see the Knicks finding a way to dump Calderon's contract) Whomever the Knicks have playing the other wing position ( If Melo stays at SF) needs to be a plus defender. The Knick have zero hope to win if they have Melo ( lousy defender), Calderon( aging lousy defender) and then add another wing who can't defend.

Complicating this is there is no one else on the roster who is young and being groomed that can offer plus defense on the wing. Whether it's Shump or someone else, the Knicks need a SG who can be an elite defender.

I don't think the Knicks extend a QO to Shump, I think he leaves. ( Sometimes it's just better for a player to move on)

Oh, I think if he's playing as well as Fish is suggesting, you could get a pick around 25.
If he's playing like his career #s, you probably won't get more than a pick around 55 though.

I rather have Shumpert, Sammy, Acy & Jason

Then
Marc Gasol & JR Smith