Amare and Shumpert were coming off injuries, barely played and were ineffective when they did. They weren't really even a part of that team.

As a result, this is a very different team than that one. I'm not saying this one is better or worse, this is *NOT AT ALL* "basically the same team." The fact that 2012 saw 54 wins has zero correlation to what the coming season will bring.

GustavBahler wrote:I agree. We need to prove to FAs that we're moving in the right direction, 54 wins shouldn't be the be all end all for next season.

Its a different team now from that one. So we really can't use that team as a example of what is to come.

nixluva wrote:It's a fair point. I will no longer bring up the 54 win team and I don't wanna hear about last years team either! We've got new coaching and new players who are likely to be in the rotation.

Jose, Samuel, Jason, Quincy, Cleanthony, Larkin and Travis will have varying degrees of impact in the rotation. Some very little and others a big impact. On top of that the style of play is going to be totally different from either of the last 2 seasons. It's a completely new day in many ways. That said, much of the key players are still here with prominent roles.

biggest difference-maker was kidd. kidd WAS the system. you lose him to retirement and the wheels fall off the bus. pablo performed well when kidd broke down, justifying that he should have gotten more steady minutes spelling kidd much earlier in the season.

you lose kidd you lose cohesion and continuity and leadership. he made the team better. now instead of kidd we rely on the triangle to accomplish the same thing.

And the thirty seven win team from last year sort of proved that.

I don't want to downplay HOF (& drunk!) Jason Kidd, but lets be honest - all of those players mentioned above were bit role players. The core group is still here - Melo.

I'd like to think that Phil has already tweaked the roster to be closer to the 54 win team vs. last years.

And Fisher is going to bring the leadership that was missing last year, which Kidd & any of the other players (KT, Rasheed) brought.

The 54 win team wasn't planned and wasn't versatile nor sustainable. They ended up playing the way they did due to injury. This team is going in with a plan and Phil has been tweaking the roster a bit to be a better fit for the Triangle. This should be a playoff team.

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:It's a fair point. I will no longer bring up the 54 win team and I don't wanna hear about last years team either! We've got new coaching and new players who are likely to be in the rotation.

Jose, Samuel, Jason, Quincy, Cleanthony, Larkin and Travis will have varying degrees of impact in the rotation. Some very little and others a big impact. On top of that the style of play is going to be totally different from either of the last 2 seasons. It's a completely new day in many ways. That said, much of the key players are still here with prominent roles.

biggest difference-maker was kidd. kidd WAS the system. you lose him to retirement and the wheels fall off the bus. pablo performed well when kidd broke down, justifying that he should have gotten more steady minutes spelling kidd much earlier in the season.

you lose kidd you lose cohesion and continuity and leadership. he made the team better. now instead of kidd we rely on the triangle to accomplish the same thing.

He was pretty much our MVP first half of the season

Melo, JR, THJ, Jose, STAT and Bargs are my likely biggest contributors this season. I think they can produce enough to help this team win the Atlantic and win about 50 games. I feel that way based on the skills of those players and the system and direction of Phil, Fish and staff. I feel good about this staff working with these players and getting them to play as a team and learn what it takes to win.

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:It's a fair point. I will no longer bring up the 54 win team and I don't wanna hear about last years team either! We've got new coaching and new players who are likely to be in the rotation.

Jose, Samuel, Jason, Quincy, Cleanthony, Larkin and Travis will have varying degrees of impact in the rotation. Some very little and others a big impact. On top of that the style of play is going to be totally different from either of the last 2 seasons. It's a completely new day in many ways. That said, much of the key players are still here with prominent roles.

biggest difference-maker was kidd. kidd WAS the system. you lose him to retirement and the wheels fall off the bus. pablo performed well when kidd broke down, justifying that he should have gotten more steady minutes spelling kidd much earlier in the season.

you lose kidd you lose cohesion and continuity and leadership. he made the team better. now instead of kidd we rely on the triangle to accomplish the same thing.

babyKnicks wrote:Fisher more than covers for Kidd. Amare and shump as you mention are improved. We didn't have thjr who's : point shooting more than replaced coop.

This team also has an actual offensive scheme.

Kmart was ok. His stats don't show much. That dalembart doesn't replace. And our point guard is much better with Calderone as well.

I'd say all in all the 54 wins are more comparable than to last year.

You all are crazy to think that Rasheed Wallace provided more leadership than Derek fisher will. Or Kidd's 3 point shooting are not replaced by thjr.

Also, jr smith had a horrible start to the year. He finished the season in 6th man form and the Knicks record at the end while trying to make the playoffs and narrowly kissing showed signs of the 54 win team.

We are closer to the 54 win team than last years disaster.