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Article I came across. Interesting Excerpt
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Solace
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6/4/2014  12:32 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/4/2014  12:33 AM
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/17796962/report-dantoni-wanted-to-trade-carmelo-anthony-for-deron-williams

About 2 years old. I don't agree with some of the stuff he's saying about Carmelo, but the last paragraph was spot on (though a "great" defensive coach is debatable).

NBA.com's David Aldridge reports that what lead to Mike D'Antoni's departure from New York was a disagreement with owner James Dolan involving a trade. D'Antoni wanted to move Carmelo Anthony, who struggled inside D'Antoni's system, for the Nets' Deron Williams. That trade would have given the Nets the star they wanted last year when he forced his way out of Denver in a contract year to New York. The Nets tried furiously to convince Anthony to force a trade to New Jersey instead, but were rebuffed, at which point they acquired Williams. From NBA.com:

'Antoni, the source said, had been advocating that the Knicks attempt to trade Anthony to the New Jersey Nets for guard Deron Williams, a deal D'Antoni believed would be beneficial for both franchises. But Dolan categorically declined that request, and the “conflicting visions” between the owner and head coach about Anthony meant there was no way forward.

D'Antoni had hoped the Knicks' inspired and winning play with Lin as the centerpiece — while Anthony and Stoudemire were injured — would convince Dolan the Knicks could win without Anthony. Bringing Williams from the Nets would also have eases the burden on Lin, D'Antoni believed, allowing Lin to settle into a three-guard rotation.

viaNBA.com | Hang Time Blog.

It makes sense why Dolan would kill this deal and then essentially force D'Antoni out. Pairing one of the top five point guards in the league with the best point guard and pick and roll coach in the league and a devastating power forward (when healthy) along with the best alley-oop center in the league who defends would never work. It's much better to focus on an isolation-heavy wing who struggles with passing the ball along with Stoudemire. Wait, no it doesn't. That doesn't make sense at all.

D'Antoni was expected to make this work. To magically force a player who ball-stops and struggles with working without the ball into a player who thrived in such a situation. Else he was to completely change his system. But why are you paying a guy to do something that is diametrically against what he has been successful with. Essentially, the Knicks set him up to fail and when he didn't succeed, the relationship ended.

Deron Williams could have been incredible in New York. It's the kind of franchise everyone wants to play for, despite its ownership. He could have conceivably reinvigorated Stoudemire, involved Chandler, played defense, and helped Lin adjust. But instead, the Knicks have Melo and a bunch of guys brought in to do other things.

Maybe the Nets would have said no. But given the perceived value of Anthony (for bizarre reason), and their desperation to cement a star in Brooklyn for a long time facing Deron Williams' prospective free agency, there's a good chance they would have gone for it.

Mike Woodson will probably be successful, because he lends himself more to Melo's play and is a great defensive coach. But don't be confused, eventually this will end, and it will end badly. Because in New York, coaches aren't expected to be coaches, as much as Kindergarten teachers.

Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
AUTOADVERT
nixluva
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6/4/2014  4:00 AM
Sad to see how it all ended up, but in the end it forced Dolan to finally accept he's a BBall Novice and should back away from the phone and bring in Phil. Let's hope that we don't see anymore of the crap we had to endure with Zeke, Larry Brown, Walsh, MDA, Grunwald, Woodson etc. Some good old smart BB decisions and harmony would be nice. Would be nice to be solid from top to bottom. Can u imagine being solid like the Spurs for a decade?
Nalod
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6/4/2014  7:02 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/4/2014  7:13 AM
A healthy Deron and a healthy Amare would have been quite the tandam.

But that would never come to be. Dolan hires Donnie who hires a systems guy in MDA and Dolan wanted a star who does not fit that system.

The moves that ensured were value destructive leaving us with fewer assets to accomplish any type of plan. The trade for Dice, Marbury, Eddy and Melo while all different for many reasons well debated but the resulting wins-loss tells a similar tale.

holfresh
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6/4/2014  7:13 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/4/2014  7:25 AM
I caught this article when it first came out...I think the mistake people make in coming here is trying to recreate their successes they had at previous stops...Layden tried to bring in his guys from Utah..Isiah had his Chicago connection..MDA wanted to redo PHX which could have put us back a decade, Donnie had his guys from Indy...Riley did it best when he adjusted to the roster and the town...Pop changed his playing style about 3 times to adjust to needs of the roster and it's players...The narrow view/approach to things aren't generally successful...
blkexec
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6/4/2014  8:22 AM
holfresh wrote:I caught this article when it first came out...I think the mistake people make in coming here is trying to recreate their successes they had at previous stops...Layden tried to bring in his guys from Utah..Isiah had his Chicago connection..MDA wanted to redo PHX which could have put us back a decade, Donnie had his guys from Indy...Riley did it best when he adjusted to the roster and the town...Pop changed his playing style about 3 times to adjust to needs of the roster and it's players...The narrow view/approach to things aren't generally successful...

I'm not sure how this impacts our current situation.....but it sounds good.....lol

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
knicks1248
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6/4/2014  8:52 AM
Deron would have had been and MVP under MDA
ES
Nalod
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6/4/2014  8:59 AM
holfresh wrote:I caught this article when it first came out...I think the mistake people make in coming here is trying to recreate their successes they had at previous stops...Layden tried to bring in his guys from Utah..Isiah had his Chicago connection..MDA wanted to redo PHX which could have put us back a decade, Donnie had his guys from Indy...Riley did it best when he adjusted to the roster and the town...Pop changed his playing style about 3 times to adjust to needs of the roster and it's players...The narrow view/approach to things aren't generally successful...

And MDA did adjust in PHX as well as here. Pop has of course but there is a core fundamental to his system that remains. He had the roster and the roster was made with the system as its guideline.

Old story.

PHil will do the same.

BigDaddyG
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6/4/2014  9:07 AM
knicks1248 wrote:Deron would have had been and MVP under MDA

Looking at Williams' injury and performance history, I'd have to say we dodged a bullet. Utah Deron Williams is another story. But it's been a while since I've seen that guy.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
dk7th
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6/4/2014  9:08 AM
holfresh wrote:I caught this article when it first came out...I think the mistake people make in coming here is trying to recreate their successes they had at previous stops...Layden tried to bring in his guys from Utah..Isiah had his Chicago connection..MDA wanted to redo PHX which could have put us back a decade, Donnie had his guys from Indy...Riley did it best when he adjusted to the roster and the town...Pop changed his playing style about 3 times to adjust to needs of the roster and it's players...The narrow view/approach to things aren't generally successful...

popovich has players who play the right way and with whom he has a healthy working relationship. when that is your starting point you can adjust and adapt according to the stage of the career the players in question are in-- developing, prime, post-prime veteran.

but the way the knicks do it-- acquiring players who don't play the right way such as carmelo anthony-- then asking a coach to adapt is the height of folly. what the lin episode demonstrated was crystal clear. have a solid system and players who can execute and you have a team not a joke.

what is especially salient is that dolan overruled d'antoni and forced d'antoni out-- the same dolan who just two years later admits that he does not know what he is doing.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
jrodmc
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6/4/2014  11:43 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Deron would have had been and MVP under MDA

Looking at Williams' injury and performance history, I'd have to say we dodged a bullet. Utah Deron Williams is another story. But it's been a while since I've seen that guy.

+1, and we've been watching for years now.

MDA was going to cure Deron's ankles AND magically keep riding Stat into the ground? It didn't play in Brooklyn for Deron but it was going to play out in MSG? Seriously?

GustavBahler
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6/4/2014  12:23 PM
jrodmc wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Deron would have had been and MVP under MDA

Looking at Williams' injury and performance history, I'd have to say we dodged a bullet. Utah Deron Williams is another story. But it's been a while since I've seen that guy.

+1, and we've been watching for years now.

MDA was going to cure Deron's ankles AND magically keep riding Stat into the ground? It didn't play in Brooklyn for Deron but it was going to play out in MSG? Seriously?

Yup Deron's ankles would have exploded if he had been traded to NY under MDA, and I see a player who makes Melo look like Tim Duncan. At least Melo made an effort to change his game, and did to some degree, Deron looks like the same player he was in Utah.

Nalod
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6/4/2014  12:58 PM
Melo has proven himself durable. Utah Deron was a good trade. Net Ankle Deron would have been problematic. Obvoiusly those ankles don't get seen as a problemm as they do now.

I hate when players go down by injury. I hope Deron makes a strong comeback. Same for Derek Rose.

They might be competitors but they are fun to watch when healthy!

holfresh
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6/4/2014  1:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/4/2014  1:47 PM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:I caught this article when it first came out...I think the mistake people make in coming here is trying to recreate their successes they had at previous stops...Layden tried to bring in his guys from Utah..Isiah had his Chicago connection..MDA wanted to redo PHX which could have put us back a decade, Donnie had his guys from Indy...Riley did it best when he adjusted to the roster and the town...Pop changed his playing style about 3 times to adjust to needs of the roster and it's players...The narrow view/approach to things aren't generally successful...

popovich has players who play the right way and with whom he has a healthy working relationship. when that is your starting point you can adjust and adapt according to the stage of the career the players in question are in-- developing, prime, post-prime veteran.

but the way the knicks do it-- acquiring players who don't play the right way such as carmelo anthony-- then asking a coach to adapt is the height of folly. what the lin episode demonstrated was crystal clear. have a solid system and players who can execute and you have a team not a joke.

what is especially salient is that dolan overruled d'antoni and forced d'antoni out-- the same dolan who just two years later admits that he does not know what he is doing.

Life in general is about adapting and adjusting to new challenges..Pop is a great coach who has his players playing the right way and not the other way around...He has adjusted his style over the years..Duncan's game has changed over the years and they are still one of the top teams..If that isn't a lesson in itself I don't know what is...Hey coaches don't have to adapt or change, let's see how long those types last...

meloshouldgo
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6/4/2014  8:29 PM
holfresh wrote:I caught this article when it first came out...I think the mistake people make in coming here is trying to recreate their successes they had at previous stops...Layden tried to bring in his guys from Utah..Isiah had his Chicago connection..MDA wanted to redo PHX which could have put us back a decade, Donnie had his guys from Indy...Riley did it best when he adjusted to the roster and the town...Pop changed his playing style about 3 times to adjust to needs of the roster and it's players...The narrow view/approach to things aren't generally successful...

Seems to be the exact opposite of what should be done. If you are suggesting that we should accept a randomly put together set of mismatched overpaid players and make the best of it then Mike Woodson and first round exits are probably high accomplishment for you. If on he other hand you are interested in seeing a roster being put together per a plan and then a coach that coaches to that plan then you can dare to think of championships.No one who came here before was allowed to put together anything according to their vision - these hings take time and they all got fired or they left anyway before they had enough time to do it because our meddlesome owner is chasing quick profits with start player acquisitions. I honestly hope Phil Jackson is allowed to propagate and implement a team according to basic vision or plan rather than "trying to make the best of the roster". The spurs are absolutely the prime example of building to a plan.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
dk7th
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6/4/2014  10:17 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
holfresh wrote:I caught this article when it first came out...I think the mistake people make in coming here is trying to recreate their successes they had at previous stops...Layden tried to bring in his guys from Utah..Isiah had his Chicago connection..MDA wanted to redo PHX which could have put us back a decade, Donnie had his guys from Indy...Riley did it best when he adjusted to the roster and the town...Pop changed his playing style about 3 times to adjust to needs of the roster and it's players...The narrow view/approach to things aren't generally successful...

Seems to be the exact opposite of what should be done. If you are suggesting that we should accept a randomly put together set of mismatched overpaid players and make the best of it then Mike Woodson and first round exits are probably high accomplishment for you. If on he other hand you are interested in seeing a roster being put together per a plan and then a coach that coaches to that plan then you can dare to think of championships.No one who came here before was allowed to put together anything according to their vision - these hings take time and they all got fired or they left anyway before they had enough time to do it because our meddlesome owner is chasing quick profits with start player acquisitions. I honestly hope Phil Jackson is allowed to propagate and implement a team according to basic vision or plan rather than "trying to make the best of the roster". The spurs are absolutely the prime example of building to a plan.

don't bother with this line of thinking with him as he won't listen or address it in a sensible and rational way.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
holfresh
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6/4/2014  11:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/4/2014  11:46 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
holfresh wrote:I caught this article when it first came out...I think the mistake people make in coming here is trying to recreate their successes they had at previous stops...Layden tried to bring in his guys from Utah..Isiah had his Chicago connection..MDA wanted to redo PHX which could have put us back a decade, Donnie had his guys from Indy...Riley did it best when he adjusted to the roster and the town...Pop changed his playing style about 3 times to adjust to needs of the roster and it's players...The narrow view/approach to things aren't generally successful...

Seems to be the exact opposite of what should be done. If you are suggesting that we should accept a randomly put together set of mismatched overpaid players and make the best of it then Mike Woodson and first round exits are probably high accomplishment for you. If on he other hand you are interested in seeing a roster being put together per a plan and then a coach that coaches to that plan then you can dare to think of championships.No one who came here before was allowed to put together anything according to their vision - these hings take time and they all got fired or they left anyway before they had enough time to do it because our meddlesome owner is chasing quick profits with start player acquisitions. I honestly hope Phil Jackson is allowed to propagate and implement a team according to basic vision or plan rather than "trying to make the best of the roster". The spurs are absolutely the prime example of building to a plan.

So I literally site Pat Riley and Popovich as examples of making adjustments and somehow you interpret my meaning as the job Woodson did although I never mention his name...

meloshouldgo
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6/5/2014  6:32 AM
holfresh wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
holfresh wrote:I caught this article when it first came out...I think the mistake people make in coming here is trying to recreate their successes they had at previous stops...Layden tried to bring in his guys from Utah..Isiah had his Chicago connection..MDA wanted to redo PHX which could have put us back a decade, Donnie had his guys from Indy...Riley did it best when he adjusted to the roster and the town...Pop changed his playing style about 3 times to adjust to needs of the roster and it's players...The narrow view/approach to things aren't generally successful...

Seems to be the exact opposite of what should be done. If you are suggesting that we should accept a randomly put together set of mismatched overpaid players and make the best of it then Mike Woodson and first round exits are probably high accomplishment for you. If on he other hand you are interested in seeing a roster being put together per a plan and then a coach that coaches to that plan then you can dare to think of championships.No one who came here before was allowed to put together anything according to their vision - these hings take time and they all got fired or they left anyway before they had enough time to do it because our meddlesome owner is chasing quick profits with start player acquisitions. I honestly hope Phil Jackson is allowed to propagate and implement a team according to basic vision or plan rather than "trying to make the best of the roster". The spurs are absolutely the prime example of building to a plan.

So I literally site Pat Riley and Popovich as examples of making adjustments and somehow you interpret my meaning as the job Woodson did although I never mention his name...

I didn't say you meant Woodson. I said you should accept what he did as high accomplishment based on your line of thinking.Maybe you do, I don't know.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Nalod
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6/5/2014  7:04 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/5/2014  7:04 AM
Riley made some nice moves with the knicks and got to the finals. He didn't adjust to Starks bricks. His Alonzo Mourning lead Heat team finished in first place for years and he didn't adjust ENOUGH to advance to the finals with that group.

Lets be real, Riley was a great coach and motivator and heads above MDA or Woodson. But in fairness, look at the rosters. In fairness look at the fact they did make adjustments, but it was never enough the talent was not their.

In no realm of reality is the knicks roster ever to be compared to the Spurs or woodson to Popovitch. While i can appreciate the attempt at making a point the correlation is just weak.

holfresh
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6/5/2014  10:04 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
holfresh wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
holfresh wrote:I caught this article when it first came out...I think the mistake people make in coming here is trying to recreate their successes they had at previous stops...Layden tried to bring in his guys from Utah..Isiah had his Chicago connection..MDA wanted to redo PHX which could have put us back a decade, Donnie had his guys from Indy...Riley did it best when he adjusted to the roster and the town...Pop changed his playing style about 3 times to adjust to needs of the roster and it's players...The narrow view/approach to things aren't generally successful...

Seems to be the exact opposite of what should be done. If you are suggesting that we should accept a randomly put together set of mismatched overpaid players and make the best of it then Mike Woodson and first round exits are probably high accomplishment for you. If on he other hand you are interested in seeing a roster being put together per a plan and then a coach that coaches to that plan then you can dare to think of championships.No one who came here before was allowed to put together anything according to their vision - these hings take time and they all got fired or they left anyway before they had enough time to do it because our meddlesome owner is chasing quick profits with start player acquisitions. I honestly hope Phil Jackson is allowed to propagate and implement a team according to basic vision or plan rather than "trying to make the best of the roster". The spurs are absolutely the prime example of building to a plan.

So I literally site Pat Riley and Popovich as examples of making adjustments and somehow you interpret my meaning as the job Woodson did although I never mention his name...

I didn't say you meant Woodson. I said you should accept what he did as high accomplishment based on your line of thinking.Maybe you do, I don't know.

Well if that's the prism you wish to view this matter then I'll say this...I'll take Woodson accomplishments of getting to the first and second rounds over the team MDA's assembled and not getting to the playoffs..How about you??

jrodmc
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6/5/2014  12:47 PM
holfresh wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
holfresh wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
holfresh wrote:I caught this article when it first came out...I think the mistake people make in coming here is trying to recreate their successes they had at previous stops...Layden tried to bring in his guys from Utah..Isiah had his Chicago connection..MDA wanted to redo PHX which could have put us back a decade, Donnie had his guys from Indy...Riley did it best when he adjusted to the roster and the town...Pop changed his playing style about 3 times to adjust to needs of the roster and it's players...The narrow view/approach to things aren't generally successful...

Seems to be the exact opposite of what should be done. If you are suggesting that we should accept a randomly put together set of mismatched overpaid players and make the best of it then Mike Woodson and first round exits are probably high accomplishment for you. If on he other hand you are interested in seeing a roster being put together per a plan and then a coach that coaches to that plan then you can dare to think of championships.No one who came here before was allowed to put together anything according to their vision - these hings take time and they all got fired or they left anyway before they had enough time to do it because our meddlesome owner is chasing quick profits with start player acquisitions. I honestly hope Phil Jackson is allowed to propagate and implement a team according to basic vision or plan rather than "trying to make the best of the roster". The spurs are absolutely the prime example of building to a plan.

So I literally site Pat Riley and Popovich as examples of making adjustments and somehow you interpret my meaning as the job Woodson did although I never mention his name...

I didn't say you meant Woodson. I said you should accept what he did as high accomplishment based on your line of thinking.Maybe you do, I don't know.

Well if that's the prism you wish to view this matter then I'll say this...I'll take Woodson accomplishments of getting to the first and second rounds over the team MDA's assembled and not getting to the playoffs..How about you??

Of course not getting to the playoffs is better in the long run, because then you get better draft picks, and then you can build a better team with a better plan, then you don't make the playoffs and you get better draft picks...until you draft Tim Duncan or Dwayne Wade.

As long as you don't have Melo, it all works out towards a chip. Like it did in Boston. And Dallas.

You gotta have a plan, man.

And you need to be in a nice friendly, quiet NBA market. That will endure years and years of rebuilding.

PJax has 5. Clock's just started.

Article I came across. Interesting Excerpt

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