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The A-Rod Ban
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Bonn1997
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1/14/2014  9:32 AM
I thought this was a relevant enough topic that it could go in this forum but mods can move it if they want. I think this is a great article.
It will be interesting to see what happens. My thoughts are that there's no point in bringing A-Rod back for his 21st season at age 40, and they should just waive him. He won't accept a buyout, and the $61 mil are a sunk cost. You can pay him $61 mil to stay away from the team or to be a distraction on the team for the next 3 years.
All involved parties look bad, though. This article doesn't paint a good picture of anyone.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/yankees/post/_/id/68398/a-rod-six-unanswered-questions?ex_cid=espnapi_public
A-Rod: Six Unanswered Questions

1. Why 162 games?

This is the key question yet to be answered. The Joint Drug Agreement collectively bargained among the league and its players specifically stipulates a 50-game suspension for a first-time drug offender, a 100-game suspension for a second offense, and a lifetime ban for a third. Technically, Alex Rodriguez is a first-time offender under the current JDA, and Major League Baseball doesn't even have a positive drug test on him. So why is he being hit with a suspension more than twice as long as Ryan Braun's, a known two-time offender, and more than three times as long as stipulated in its own JDA? This question was never asked of Manfred or Selig and probably can only be answered by releasing Horowitz's decision, or if it is introduced into evidence as part of A-Rod's attempt to obtain an injunction in federal court. In any event, we shouldn't have to guess about why the sentence is so stiff.

2. If MLB's anti-drug program is so tough, why are there no positive tests against A-Rod or any of the other 13 players suspended in the Biogenesis scandal?

The obvious answer, of course, is the drug program is not nearly as tough as MLB says it is. Clearly, without the Miami New Times story, A-Rod, Braun and the other 12 players who accepted 50-game suspensions probably would not have been caught. Selig and/or Manfred should have been asked to explain that discrepancy.

3. If Anthony Bosch is so truthful, how does MLB feel about his assertions that passing its drug tests is easy, and that "everyone" in the game is doing illegal PEDs?

This is a tough one for MLB to rationalize away, which is probably why neither Selig nor Manfred was asked about it. Are they saying he's selectively truthful, and that he lied when he said the test is easy to beat? If so, he's an unreliable witness whose word should not be taken as gospel on anything. And if he's as truthful as MLB says he is, then MLB still has a very, very serious drug problem and no clue how to stop it.

4. How could MLB not know that the documents it bought from someone calling himself "Bobby" were stolen?

Of course they knew, it would appear. At first they were negotiating with Porter Fischer, the disgruntled Biogenesis employee who originally leaked the documents to the New Times. And then, suddenly, Fischer dropped out and was replaced by the sketchy "Bobby," whom Manfred asserted MLB bought the documents from, for cash, with virtually no questions asked. I could be wrong, but it certainly seems as if they did not want to know the answers. Especially because it is known that before the purchase, an MLB investigator called the Boca Raton police department inquiring about a robbery involving items taken from the trunk of Fischer's car. It may not be germane to the issue of whether A-Rod did or did not use PEDs supplied by Bosch, but it could shed some meaningful light on MLB's methods in conducting its investigation.

5. Why is it evidence of A-Rod's guilt that he allegedly paid Bosch $12,000 a month in cash, but there are no repercussions for MLB paying "Bobby" -- actually an ex-con named Gary Jones -- $125,000 in $10,000 bricks of $100 bills in a parking lot?

Again, this goes more to MLB's methods than Alex Rodriguez's guilt or innocence, but the question should have been asked. Why is one an instance of criminal behavior and the other an acceptable means of obtaining evidence?

6. Why was Selig so willing to answer questions on camera from Scott Pelley, but not under oath from Joe Tacopina?

An admittedly obvious question, the answer being that Selig could be sure Pelley would not ask any of the preceding five questions -- and Tacopina, of course, would have asked them, and more. While there may be a precedent in the history of MLBPA appeals for Selig's failure to testify, it remains among the most unsatisfying aspects of the entire affair. We should have heard from Selig and from A-Rod under oath on the stand, not before TV cameras or radio microphones in front of friendly interviewers.

AUTOADVERT
fishmike
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1/14/2014  9:52 AM
what a **** show. The richest guy in the sport is dirty. Everyone knows it. MLB and Bud not only want him gone, but they want him humiliated. Reality is ARod is bad for the sport. So what you have is a lot of rich guys having a huge public fight, not over ARod's guilt, but over the enforcement of the rules and the scumbaggery that ensued following the opening of this can of worms.

I have no love for ARod. Yes he's being targeted, blamed, attacked, etc etc.
I do hope this continues to ruin Selig's legacy as well as he's the guy who presided over one of the black marks of the sport. He sat back and watched MLB rocket to the moon while two jacked up juice heads (Sosa/Mac) captivated the community with that great home run race. He not only did nothing, but he promoted two guys who were so clearly juiced as the face of the greatness of the sport. Now he's pissed because PEDs have taken a dump on MLB so he's going after ARod. Boohoohoo poor bud. He's as much to blame as anyone. Far more than ARod. ARod just played the game. Bud is the king, and his kingdom is phucked up.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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1/14/2014  9:56 AM
Yeah, we actually agree!
Undoubtedly, A-Rod is being targeted and the punishment is arbitrary and excessive. But when you're the most hated player on a hated team (and A-Rod certainly did a lot to earn that hate over the years), that happens. Even if you're on the Yankees but you're a nice, modest guy, people will treat you better.
But Selig is the bigger jerk, like you said.
Vmart
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1/14/2014  9:57 AM
Nothing but a witch hunt. I'm not saying that A-rod is innocent but he deserved what every other player got. 60 games even half a season. But MLB has gone to such lengths that they are paying drug dealers for evidence which I find more and more disgusting even more disgusting than what A-Rod has done. MLB turned their backs in PEDs and steroids in the 90s to reap the benefits and then they now go after players. Aren't they just as guilty for what has happened in baseball. Aren't they the ones who glorified players. Aren't they the ones who pay the big money to players who were on suspected and known steroid users. I think this is Bull**** what they are doing.
Bonn1997
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1/14/2014  9:59 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/14/2014  10:01 AM
Vmart wrote:Nothing but a witch hunt. I'm not saying that A-rod is innocent but he deserved what every other player got. 60 games even half a season. But MLB has gone to such lengths that they are paying drug dealers for evidence which I find more and more disgusting even more disgusting than what A-Rod has done. MLB turned their backs in PEDs and steroids in the 90s to reap the benefits and then they now go after players. Aren't they just as guilty for what has happened in baseball. Aren't they the ones who glorified players. Aren't they the ones who pay the big money to players who were on suspected and known steroid users. I think this is Bull**** what they are doing.

Everything MLB has done on this issue has been bull****. It's not random - A-Rod has brought on a lot of hostility, though. But it is bull****. If he used steroids 3 times, you can't logically count that as 3 failed drug tests. In reality, after a first failed drug test and 50 game suspension, the player is at least afforded the opportunity to weigh the pros and cons of continuing use and risking a 2nd suspension. You can't just skip those failed tests and smaller suspensions - at least not if you want the process to appear credible.
Nalod
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1/14/2014  10:01 AM
A mess!!!!

Torre goes in the HOF on the backs of roid users.
Selig's tenure of revenue increases on the backs of Roid users.
We got guys who got caught omitted from HOF, guys not getting votes being suspected, and guys going in who never were. Whose to say Maddox never touched it? Glavine never touched it? Frank Thomas?
Has Clemmons or bonds ever tested positive? We ever think Nolan Ryan touched this stuff? Guy pitched until he was 46 and 5 years later had a heart attack and double bypass. Im not saying Roids contributes to heart attacks, but few world class athletes get this so close after retirement and as one who understands the power of oxeginated blood (can't spell it) its raises my question.

My point is baseball let this dirty secret exist for its own convienence and now is protecting its image with who gets in the HOF which to me is hypocritical!

I think its time to Let Pete Rose in, and in time you going to have to let Clemmons and Bonds in. Sosa and Mcguire were one trick ponies who excelled for a brief period of time where Bonds was a HOF player before his rise in his late 30's as well as Clemmons.

SupremeCommander
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1/14/2014  10:05 AM
this guy's personality is like Barry Bonds' on HGH
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
GustavBahler
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1/14/2014  10:19 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/14/2014  10:31 AM
He is the reason that I have been tuning out the Yankees over the last few seasons, just can't watch him since he admitted juicing. Pettite was different because I don't believe he had been juicing all along and I'm convinced Arod has, maybe since high school.

I've told this story before but an agent who is a friend of the family who represented a Yankee great told us when Arod first was signed that they would regret ever making him a Yankeee, and he was right. No one at the time knew about steroids, but he knew something.

Highest paid, biggest choke artist in Yankee history, who disgraced the uniform. He admitted that he took steroids so I'm not buying into the fact that he was passing tests. He was more concerned with his own glory than the team's. If he delivered when it mattered most I don't believe anyone would really care, but he rarely did. He's the Lance Armstrong of baseball except for the performing in the clutch part. Good riddance.

gunsnewing
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1/14/2014  10:21 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/14/2014  10:23 AM
Arod screwed up taking roids once he went to Texas. He was a slick fielding, quick footed, strong armed Shortstop. Would have been in the conversation as all time best SS. And that's a short list

Instead he chose to bulk up on roids and the ret is history

If you we going to juice at least do it like Bonds. 43 and put up cartoon like numbers

But Arod was never built the same

SupremeCommander
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1/14/2014  10:57 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/14/2014  10:57 AM
gunsnewing wrote:Arod screwed up taking roids once he went to Texas. He was a slick fielding, quick footed, strong armed Shortstop. Would have been in the conversation as all time best SS. And that's a short list

Instead he chose to bulk up on roids and the ret is history

If you we going to juice at least do it like Bonds. 43 and put up cartoon like numbers

But Arod was never built the same

Why would anyone assume that Arod juiced *after* he went to Texas? The guy is full of crap and I'm going to assuming juiced to get that first fat contract too

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
knicks1248
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1/14/2014  11:05 AM
Half the MLB uses roids, this whole story is bogus to the core.
ES
foosballnick
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1/14/2014  11:27 AM
Not an ARod Fan and he tends to be his own worst enemy.....but oh the Hypocrisy of Major League Baseball.

As far as his future career in Pinstripes is concerned. Don't want him on the team as he will continue to be a distraction and have greatly diminished productivity and value. That being said his remaining contract will carry a luxury tax implication for the Yankees. I would expect them to attempt to jettison his contract through legal means first (which will most likely fail) and then try to trade him to a team like the Marlins for a bag of rocks and eat a bunch of his contract in return.

gunsnewing
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1/14/2014  11:27 AM
That's true he was hitting over 40 HR's in Seattle. Would not surprise me
Nalod
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1/14/2014  12:02 PM
The Hypocrisy by baseball and fans is a joke. Big money players always get crap if they don't live up to the contracts. Blame the Yankees for paying not once but twice. One day the Yankees were going to get stuck with a bad situation. Next up is CC if his arm dies.

Nobody put a gun to the Yanks head to get him, and resign him when he opted out.

Its funny how teams never endorsed the use but paid these guys fully knowing they were enhancing their performance.

Lets add Scott Brocious, a journeyman who became Mike Schmidt, Chili Davis who played long after being washed up, Strawberry who got boosts of productivity, Paul O'neil who continued 5 more years than expected and we all saw his rage on the field! Giambi? Tino's frequent resurections?

Historically by age 35 players were usually cooked. The winning was fun. The music stopped and a hard cap with Arod is a reality. Its not easy anymore!

fishmike
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1/14/2014  12:17 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, we actually agree!
Undoubtedly, A-Rod is being targeted and the punishment is arbitrary and excessive. But when you're the most hated player on a hated team (and A-Rod certainly did a lot to earn that hate over the years), that happens. Even if you're on the Yankees but you're a nice, modest guy, people will treat you better.
But Selig is the bigger jerk, like you said.
why are you shocked we agree? there are no advanced stats on this situation so you have to use your eyes, brain and even a little heart. Did you hear the pop? (Thats your head coming out of your ass) now go watch last nights game and tell me what you REALLY see.

cheers dude

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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1/14/2014  12:47 PM
Actually, I did watch the game until I fell asleep! I'm not a stat phobe though. When I watch, it's informed by stats. The naked eye would never notice that Melo has a few more forced shots out of every hundred than more efficient stars that he is capable of emulating (Dirk, Love, etc.), but you can monitor this very closely if you look for when it is occurring.
Some day, at least try balancing the eyeball test and stats. You may find them to be a useful part of the picture someday.
Nalod
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1/14/2014  2:00 PM
Bound to happen that a A-Roid thread get to Melo!!!!

Didn't we love Arod when Yanks last won series? Didn't we get him so Boston would not? Wasn't he suppose to break all the records and fill the stadium while he passed Mays, Aaron and Bonds? Isn't that what the finaicial justification was?

Basically was not not suspected that he would "keep up" and cheat?

Why are the Yankees getting a free pass? We blast the knicks for Amare but not the yanks for Arod at a quarter billion dollars?

We love a comeback story. if he can play in Japan or south america let him play and if he can get healthy we bring him back. Everyone loves a comeback story. Maybe he won't be the same player but with some humility, humor and hard work he can ressurect himself.

Personally I don't care if he does make it back but he is getting paid one way or the other.

The pushback against his suspension is predictable and I don't blame Arod for fighting. Baseball has taken an unorthodox approach to a new problem and while I have not studied the issues, they are in unchartered water witout presidence so anything is possible. Basically they are using Bosches testimony and when a scumbag is ratting on another scumbag its just not solid. Who knows.

jrodmc
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1/14/2014  2:34 PM
Any chance of this also becoming a Linsanity thread?

Yankees have chips. In almost every decade; none of this forty years wandering the wilderness and getting close but not entering the promised land that is so easily whined and moaned about in here. Yankees are the last bastion of unquestioned homerism. George bought whatever looked shiny and bright and might get another parade kicked off. Starphucqing has been the unquestioned norm since day 1.

Listen to a Knicks radio broadcast, and then listen to John Sterling. There's nothing like it, and no comparison. Homerism at it's finest and most annoying. It is to weep at all you other poor franchises.

The Yankees are historical. Fans and the team are hated, like Bush winning two elections in a row. The intelligentsia and the enlightened hate money that's not their own. And all that that implies. The Marlins win a world series and then fade into obscurity.

The Yanks get passes on Arod because they get passes on Rocket Roger, The Big Loonit, AJay Burlesque and thousands of others...

Arod's people were actually threatening someone's life? Hundreds of millions obviously result in some strange things.

smackeddog
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1/14/2014  5:33 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:I thought this was a relevant enough topic that it could go in this forum but mods can move it if they want. I think this is a great article.
It will be interesting to see what happens. My thoughts are that there's no point in bringing A-Rod back for his 21st season at age 40, and they should just waive him. He won't accept a buyout, and the $61 mil are a sunk cost. You can pay him $61 mil to stay away from the team or to be a distraction on the team for the next 3 years.
All involved parties look bad, though. This article doesn't paint a good picture of anyone.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/yankees/post/_/id/68398/a-rod-six-unanswered-questions?ex_cid=espnapi_public
A-Rod: Six Unanswered Questions

1. Why 162 games?

This is the key question yet to be answered. The Joint Drug Agreement collectively bargained among the league and its players specifically stipulates a 50-game suspension for a first-time drug offender, a 100-game suspension for a second offense, and a lifetime ban for a third. Technically, Alex Rodriguez is a first-time offender under the current JDA, and Major League Baseball doesn't even have a positive drug test on him. So why is he being hit with a suspension more than twice as long as Ryan Braun's, a known two-time offender, and more than three times as long as stipulated in its own JDA? This question was never asked of Manfred or Selig and probably can only be answered by releasing Horowitz's decision, or if it is introduced into evidence as part of A-Rod's attempt to obtain an injunction in federal court. In any event, we shouldn't have to guess about why the sentence is so stiff.

2. If MLB's anti-drug program is so tough, why are there no positive tests against A-Rod or any of the other 13 players suspended in the Biogenesis scandal?

The obvious answer, of course, is the drug program is not nearly as tough as MLB says it is. Clearly, without the Miami New Times story, A-Rod, Braun and the other 12 players who accepted 50-game suspensions probably would not have been caught. Selig and/or Manfred should have been asked to explain that discrepancy.

3. If Anthony Bosch is so truthful, how does MLB feel about his assertions that passing its drug tests is easy, and that "everyone" in the game is doing illegal PEDs?

This is a tough one for MLB to rationalize away, which is probably why neither Selig nor Manfred was asked about it. Are they saying he's selectively truthful, and that he lied when he said the test is easy to beat? If so, he's an unreliable witness whose word should not be taken as gospel on anything. And if he's as truthful as MLB says he is, then MLB still has a very, very serious drug problem and no clue how to stop it.

4. How could MLB not know that the documents it bought from someone calling himself "Bobby" were stolen?

Of course they knew, it would appear. At first they were negotiating with Porter Fischer, the disgruntled Biogenesis employee who originally leaked the documents to the New Times. And then, suddenly, Fischer dropped out and was replaced by the sketchy "Bobby," whom Manfred asserted MLB bought the documents from, for cash, with virtually no questions asked. I could be wrong, but it certainly seems as if they did not want to know the answers. Especially because it is known that before the purchase, an MLB investigator called the Boca Raton police department inquiring about a robbery involving items taken from the trunk of Fischer's car. It may not be germane to the issue of whether A-Rod did or did not use PEDs supplied by Bosch, but it could shed some meaningful light on MLB's methods in conducting its investigation.

5. Why is it evidence of A-Rod's guilt that he allegedly paid Bosch $12,000 a month in cash, but there are no repercussions for MLB paying "Bobby" -- actually an ex-con named Gary Jones -- $125,000 in $10,000 bricks of $100 bills in a parking lot?

Again, this goes more to MLB's methods than Alex Rodriguez's guilt or innocence, but the question should have been asked. Why is one an instance of criminal behavior and the other an acceptable means of obtaining evidence?

6. Why was Selig so willing to answer questions on camera from Scott Pelley, but not under oath from Joe Tacopina?

An admittedly obvious question, the answer being that Selig could be sure Pelley would not ask any of the preceding five questions -- and Tacopina, of course, would have asked them, and more. While there may be a precedent in the history of MLBPA appeals for Selig's failure to testify, it remains among the most unsatisfying aspects of the entire affair. We should have heard from Selig and from A-Rod under oath on the stand, not before TV cameras or radio microphones in front of friendly interviewers.

Hmm, this looks like a case for Playa2!

H1AND1
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1/14/2014  10:37 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/14/2014  10:40 PM
smackeddog wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:I thought this was a relevant enough topic that it could go in this forum but mods can move it if they want. I think this is a great article.
It will be interesting to see what happens. My thoughts are that there's no point in bringing A-Rod back for his 21st season at age 40, and they should just waive him. He won't accept a buyout, and the $61 mil are a sunk cost. You can pay him $61 mil to stay away from the team or to be a distraction on the team for the next 3 years.
All involved parties look bad, though. This article doesn't paint a good picture of anyone.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/yankees/post/_/id/68398/a-rod-six-unanswered-questions?ex_cid=espnapi_public
A-Rod: Six Unanswered Questions

1. Why 162 games?

This is the key question yet to be answered. The Joint Drug Agreement collectively bargained among the league and its players specifically stipulates a 50-game suspension for a first-time drug offender, a 100-game suspension for a second offense, and a lifetime ban for a third. Technically, Alex Rodriguez is a first-time offender under the current JDA, and Major League Baseball doesn't even have a positive drug test on him. So why is he being hit with a suspension more than twice as long as Ryan Braun's, a known two-time offender, and more than three times as long as stipulated in its own JDA? This question was never asked of Manfred or Selig and probably can only be answered by releasing Horowitz's decision, or if it is introduced into evidence as part of A-Rod's attempt to obtain an injunction in federal court. In any event, we shouldn't have to guess about why the sentence is so stiff.

2. If MLB's anti-drug program is so tough, why are there no positive tests against A-Rod or any of the other 13 players suspended in the Biogenesis scandal?

The obvious answer, of course, is the drug program is not nearly as tough as MLB says it is. Clearly, without the Miami New Times story, A-Rod, Braun and the other 12 players who accepted 50-game suspensions probably would not have been caught. Selig and/or Manfred should have been asked to explain that discrepancy.

3. If Anthony Bosch is so truthful, how does MLB feel about his assertions that passing its drug tests is easy, and that "everyone" in the game is doing illegal PEDs?

This is a tough one for MLB to rationalize away, which is probably why neither Selig nor Manfred was asked about it. Are they saying he's selectively truthful, and that he lied when he said the test is easy to beat? If so, he's an unreliable witness whose word should not be taken as gospel on anything. And if he's as truthful as MLB says he is, then MLB still has a very, very serious drug problem and no clue how to stop it.

4. How could MLB not know that the documents it bought from someone calling himself "Bobby" were stolen?

Of course they knew, it would appear. At first they were negotiating with Porter Fischer, the disgruntled Biogenesis employee who originally leaked the documents to the New Times. And then, suddenly, Fischer dropped out and was replaced by the sketchy "Bobby," whom Manfred asserted MLB bought the documents from, for cash, with virtually no questions asked. I could be wrong, but it certainly seems as if they did not want to know the answers. Especially because it is known that before the purchase, an MLB investigator called the Boca Raton police department inquiring about a robbery involving items taken from the trunk of Fischer's car. It may not be germane to the issue of whether A-Rod did or did not use PEDs supplied by Bosch, but it could shed some meaningful light on MLB's methods in conducting its investigation.

5. Why is it evidence of A-Rod's guilt that he allegedly paid Bosch $12,000 a month in cash, but there are no repercussions for MLB paying "Bobby" -- actually an ex-con named Gary Jones -- $125,000 in $10,000 bricks of $100 bills in a parking lot?

Again, this goes more to MLB's methods than Alex Rodriguez's guilt or innocence, but the question should have been asked. Why is one an instance of criminal behavior and the other an acceptable means of obtaining evidence?

6. Why was Selig so willing to answer questions on camera from Scott Pelley, but not under oath from Joe Tacopina?

An admittedly obvious question, the answer being that Selig could be sure Pelley would not ask any of the preceding five questions -- and Tacopina, of course, would have asked them, and more. While there may be a precedent in the history of MLBPA appeals for Selig's failure to testify, it remains among the most unsatisfying aspects of the entire affair. We should have heard from Selig and from A-Rod under oath on the stand, not before TV cameras or radio microphones in front of friendly interviewers.

Hmm, this looks like a case for Playa2!

Ya know I was in the BX the other day and I swear I thought I saw Isaiah walking south on Jerome Ave near the stadium. I thought, "Nahhh" couldn't be so I didn't even check for telltale cloven hooves. BUT, what if?!? Questions abound!

The A-Rod Ban

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