nixluva wrote:This team is flawed and we all know it. It was flawed last year and the decade before that. Still there are just some things that are going on right now that are symptoms of this teams problems even last year, but now they're even more glaring. The late game strategy of this team since Melo has been here has gotten worse. Now it's devolved into a series of attempts to force looks to Melo even tho there is clear evidence that this is the wrong thing to do. Doesn't matter how well any other player is doing the team resorts to this Melo Ball and it slowly grinds to a halt, giving teams a chance to steal the game.

the final five minutes did them in. Green tied the game at 81-81 and, after a 3-point play by Anthony, who shot 9 for 24, the Celtics ripped off 7 unanswered points.

The Knicks came up empty on five straight possessions, with Anthony missing three times, Bargnani once and Prigioni once.

This is how so many games end and it's not OK to just blame the players. At some point the head coach needs to CALL THE PLAY that needs to be made. In this game the play that needed to be called was to go inside to STAT. This is the very thing Woody wanted to hang his hat on. Post play!!! Woody had STAT work with Hakeem so they could feature more post ups. He wanted to feature more post play last year before guys got hurt. Now this year when we finally get STAT going what happens? They don't do the very thing Woody said he wanted to the team to focus on to close out a game.

If Woody wanted a post up for STAT on any one of those last 5 possessions, they could've gotten it. How hard is it to call for a post up with Prigs feeding the post and everyone cleared out? Don't try and make it sound like it was just not possible for Woody to COACH HIS DAMN TEAM!!! You can't blame this on the roster as if we had scrubs on the floor. We had STAT, Melo, JR, Bargs and Prigs thing is that Woody didn't call for the ball to go into STAT on successive plays. STAT hit that elbow jumper and never saw the ball again!!!

7:15	Amar'e Stoudemire makes 18-foot jumper - Score          81-78
6:30	Carmelo Anthony misses 12-foot jumper	                81-78	 
6:28	Andrea Bargnani offensive rebound	                81-78	 
6:26	Carmelo Anthony misses 23-foot three point jumper 	81-78
5:16	J.R. Smith misses 26-foot three point jumper 	        81-78
4:41	Andrea Bargnani misses 13-foot two point shot	        81-79
4:07	Carmelo Anthony makes driving layup	                83-81	
4:07	Carmelo Anthony makes free throw 1 of 1	                84-81
3:25	Andrea Bargnani misses 17-foot step back jumpshot	84-83
3:05	Amar'e Stoudemire defensive rebound	                84-83	
2:47	Carmelo Anthony misses 10-foot jumper	                84-83
2:14	Carmelo Anthony misses 21-foot jumper	                84-86
1:45	Amar'e Stoudemire defensive rebound	84-86	 
1:28	Pablo Prigioni misses 27-foot three point jumper 	84-86
0:59	Jeff Green blocks Carmelo Anthony 's 4-foot jumper	84-88
0:30	Andrea Bargnani makes 17-foot jumper (Prigioni assists)	86-88
0:09	Amar'e Stoudemire defensive rebound	                86-90	
0:03	Carmelo Anthony misses 25-foot three point jumper 	86-90

Yes the team has issues, but we've lost games due to the same stupid ISO Melo to close out a game. How many times do we have to bang our heads against the wall before we try something else? Sure we didn't have JR shooting or Prigs but what is the point of making STAT play all those minutes and NEVER use him?

What happens if the team gets healthy and makes a trade to bring in players and they start to play better? Do we finally see a change or just the same dumb approach that teams are waiting for and have figured out by now?

But according to some, this is how it really goes.

Carmelo Anthony misses 12-foot jumper 81-78
6:28 Andrea Bargnani offensive rebound 81-78
6:26 Carmelo Anthony misses 23-foot three point jumper 81-78 / woodys fault
5:16 J.R. Smith misses 26-foot three point jumper 81-78
4:41 Andrea Bargnani misses 13-foot two point shot 81-79
4:07 Carmelo Anthony makes driving layup 83-81/ carmelo is great
4:07 Carmelo Anthony makes free throw 1 of 1 84-81
3:25 Andrea Bargnani misses 17-foot step back jumpshot 84-83
3:05 Amar'e Stoudemire defensive rebound 84-83
2:47 Carmelo Anthony misses 10-foot jumper 84-83 / woodys fault
2:14 Carmelo Anthony misses 21-foot jumper 84-86 / woodys fault again..
1:45 Amar'e Stoudemire defensive rebound 84-86
1:28 Pablo Prigioni misses 27-foot three point jumper 84-86
0:59 Jeff Green blocks Carmelo Anthony 's 4-foot jumper 84-88
0:30 Andrea Bargnani makes 17-foot jumper (Prigioni assists) 86-88
0:09 Amar'e Stoudemire defensive rebound 86-90
0:03 Carmelo Anthony misses 25-foot three point jumper 86-90

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:This team is flawed and we all know it. It was flawed last year and the decade before that. Still there are just some things that are going on right now that are symptoms of this teams problems even last year, but now they're even more glaring. The late game strategy of this team since Melo has been here has gotten worse. Now it's devolved into a series of attempts to force looks to Melo even tho there is clear evidence that this is the wrong thing to do. Doesn't matter how well any other player is doing the team resorts to this Melo Ball and it slowly grinds to a halt, giving teams a chance to steal the game.

the final five minutes did them in. Green tied the game at 81-81 and, after a 3-point play by Anthony, who shot 9 for 24, the Celtics ripped off 7 unanswered points.

The Knicks came up empty on five straight possessions, with Anthony missing three times, Bargnani once and Prigioni once.

This is how so many games end and it's not OK to just blame the players. At some point the head coach needs to CALL THE PLAY that needs to be made. In this game the play that needed to be called was to go inside to STAT. This is the very thing Woody wanted to hang his hat on. Post play!!! Woody had STAT work with Hakeem so they could feature more post ups. He wanted to feature more post play last year before guys got hurt. Now this year when we finally get STAT going what happens? They don't do the very thing Woody said he wanted to the team to focus on to close out a game.

If Woody wanted a post up for STAT on any one of those last 5 possessions, they could've gotten it. How hard is it to call for a post up with Prigs feeding the post and everyone cleared out? Don't try and make it sound like it was just not possible for Woody to COACH HIS DAMN TEAM!!! You can't blame this on the roster as if we had scrubs on the floor. We had STAT, Melo, JR, Bargs and Prigs thing is that Woody didn't call for the ball to go into STAT on successive plays. STAT hit that elbow jumper and never saw the ball again!!!

7:15	Amar'e Stoudemire makes 18-foot jumper - Score          81-78
6:30	Carmelo Anthony misses 12-foot jumper	                81-78	 
6:28	Andrea Bargnani offensive rebound	                81-78	 
6:26	Carmelo Anthony misses 23-foot three point jumper 	81-78
5:16	J.R. Smith misses 26-foot three point jumper 	        81-78
4:41	Andrea Bargnani misses 13-foot two point shot	        81-79
4:07	Carmelo Anthony makes driving layup	                83-81	
4:07	Carmelo Anthony makes free throw 1 of 1	                84-81
3:25	Andrea Bargnani misses 17-foot step back jumpshot	84-83
3:05	Amar'e Stoudemire defensive rebound	                84-83	
2:47	Carmelo Anthony misses 10-foot jumper	                84-83
2:14	Carmelo Anthony misses 21-foot jumper	                84-86
1:45	Amar'e Stoudemire defensive rebound	84-86	 
1:28	Pablo Prigioni misses 27-foot three point jumper 	84-86
0:59	Jeff Green blocks Carmelo Anthony 's 4-foot jumper	84-88
0:30	Andrea Bargnani makes 17-foot jumper (Prigioni assists)	86-88
0:09	Amar'e Stoudemire defensive rebound	                86-90	
0:03	Carmelo Anthony misses 25-foot three point jumper 	86-90

Yes the team has issues, but we've lost games due to the same stupid ISO Melo to close out a game. How many times do we have to bang our heads against the wall before we try something else? Sure we didn't have JR shooting or Prigs but what is the point of making STAT play all those minutes and NEVER use him?

What happens if the team gets healthy and makes a trade to bring in players and they start to play better? Do we finally see a change or just the same dumb approach that teams are waiting for and have figured out by now?

But according to some, this is how it really goes.

Carmelo Anthony misses 12-foot jumper 81-78
6:28 Andrea Bargnani offensive rebound 81-78
6:26 Carmelo Anthony misses 23-foot three point jumper 81-78 / woodys fault
5:16 J.R. Smith misses 26-foot three point jumper 81-78
4:41 Andrea Bargnani misses 13-foot two point shot 81-79
4:07 Carmelo Anthony makes driving layup 83-81/ carmelo is great
4:07 Carmelo Anthony makes free throw 1 of 1 84-81
3:25 Andrea Bargnani misses 17-foot step back jumpshot 84-83
3:05 Amar'e Stoudemire defensive rebound 84-83
2:47 Carmelo Anthony misses 10-foot jumper 84-83 / woodys fault
2:14 Carmelo Anthony misses 21-foot jumper 84-86 / woodys fault again..
1:45 Amar'e Stoudemire defensive rebound 84-86
1:28 Pablo Prigioni misses 27-foot three point jumper 84-86
0:59 Jeff Green blocks Carmelo Anthony 's 4-foot jumper 84-88
0:30 Andrea Bargnani makes 17-foot jumper (Prigioni assists) 86-88
0:09 Amar'e Stoudemire defensive rebound 86-90
0:03 Carmelo Anthony misses 25-foot three point jumper 86-90

Yes it is a coaches fault when you have a player that is the most efficient player on the floor and you don't make a point of getting him the ball in prime position. The way STAT is playing is exactly the way Woody had envisioned and yet we see no real sense of how to mix that into the plan when closing games. Instead this team over and over again has collapsed at the end of games with poor execution. Poor recognition of advantages on the floor and what is a good shot or not. It's not all Woody's fault, but a LOT of it is his fault if you just look at what is happening. Melo is logging heavy minutes and taking tons of shots and in a game where you actually have STAT playing and looking like he's got his game going, you don't get any shots for him to close the game. What exactly is Woodson doing on the sideline if not directing his team to do what will help them win games? Who else can you blame for this failure? It's literally Woodson's job to call the plays and direct the team to wins.

nixluva wrote:Someone posted this on Knickerblogger and it just underscores what i've been saying about the play calling.

"Carmelo Anthony, as it so happens, is the best pick-and-roll scorer in the NBA. That’s right, according to Synergy, no one scores more than Melo’s 1.12 PPP on these sets. In the series with Boston, Melo has taken nine shots out of pick-and-rolls and scored eight times. And whereas he’s coughed the ball up nine times in post ups or isolations, he’s yet to turn it over as a pick-and-roll ball handler."

In the final few minutes, spread the floor and execute nothing but Melo/Amare PnRs until Celts show they could stop it. How hard is that to figure out? I bet Melo/Amare’s PnRs are even more efficient than Melo’s league leading average last season cited above.

Like I posted above they actually did which lead to the 12 ft missed jumper and on another occasion I think the ball was swung which lead to a bargs miss. I believe they ran it back to back then went into the high horn set with Prigs handling the ball. I think going to AMar'e in the post would have been the best option. It would have given Anthony possessions to rest a little and then camp for the off board.

They could've gone with Melo and STAT 2 man game or just a post up with STAT. It would force a different response from the defense and could open up other scoring options. Woody could have the team practice posting STAT and cutting if they send help. The more you practice that kind of action the better the team would get at working as a team from that play. With the team in such a poor state you have to play smart to win and this team just hasn't played smart. You see no leadership coming from the coaching staff.

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Too bad, Woodson and Melo do not get that stat.

One of the stupidest plays I saw was when someone jacked a shot at the end of the 24. THe shot missed and somehow STAT got the rebound, he gave it to Melo and with about 20 seconds left on the clock he launched another shot, off balance from 3 point land!

You can't fix STUPID.

YUP. Thing is that the C's had no real size and still we didn't pound them inside!!! How do you call yourself an NBA Coach and can't see that advantage?

Melo 9-24
Bargs 9-22
Shump 1-8
Prigs 1-6
STAT 7-9

What is wrong with this picture? Why would STAT be the one that didn't get another shot or play called for him with 7 minutes left in the game? NOT ONE MORE SCORING POSSESSION!

Knicks22 wrote:nixluva
totally agree with your assessment, though my read is that this coach - watching Melo tune out MDA for having the gall (!) to instill a system, tell players what to do, etc - decided healthier for him to basically sit back and capitulate to the free lance/ISO ball.

pity the coach isn't coaching, but, increasingly wonder if Naismith, Auerbach or Jackson could get these group to follow instructions.

I think every group of players wants to win. NO ONE wants to lose. It shouldn't be that hard for Woody to make a few calls for STAT to get the ball when he's hot and everyone else is bricking it up.

The real difference between MDA and Melo and now is that Melo was actually resisting and not giving effort. Melo wasn't just breaking plays, but when MDA finally got a PG to base the offense around Melo pouted. Now There is no Jeremy Lin for Woody to go to and so the only option he has is to tell Prigs to get the ball to STAT when he's hot.

When STAT isn't playing, Woody has to call for the spread offense with Melo in the post and everyone else behind the 3pt line. That set was the base offense last year and it's very hard to deal with without doubling Melo who can swing the ball and that is what they did when they were winning. Then you can mix in other sets to keep the defense guessing. We don't have that kind of technical approach to the game right now.

SwishAndDish13 wrote:ESPN called this out in the Chicago game, but the Iso sets aren't even fair to Melo. There isn't even a kickout option. If he passes out it will likely be a turnover so the low percentage shot is actually the smart play. When he has a favorable match up the should absolutely iso but not every play. Also, while it is easy to point the finger the players seem to be signing up for this. During the Chicago game ESPN showed a clip of Melo begging somebody to get open when questioned on a shot "what am I supposed to do."

nixluva wrote:

Knicks22 wrote:nixluva
totally agree with your assessment, though my read is that this coach - watching Melo tune out MDA for having the gall (!) to instill a system, tell players what to do, etc - decided healthier for him to basically sit back and capitulate to the free lance/ISO ball.

pity the coach isn't coaching, but, increasingly wonder if Naismith, Auerbach or Jackson could get these group to follow instructions.

I think every group of players wants to win. NO ONE wants to lose. It shouldn't be that hard for Woody to make a few calls for STAT to get the ball when he's hot and everyone else is bricking it up.

The real difference between MDA and Melo and now is that Melo was actually resisting and not giving effort. Melo wasn't just breaking plays, but when MDA finally got a PG to base the offense around Melo pouted. Now There is no Jeremy Lin for Woody to go to and so the only option he has is to tell Prigs to get the ball to STAT when he's hot.

When STAT isn't playing, Woody has to call for the spread offense with Melo in the post and everyone else behind the 3pt line. That set was the base offense last year and it's very hard to deal with without doubling Melo who can swing the ball and that is what they did when they were winning. Then you can mix in other sets to keep the defense guessing. We don't have that kind of technical approach to the game right now.

Stop with Lin. It's played out. Him and Novak took advantage of players dogging it midway through the lockout year. They made millions off it. Good for them. Neither has done much since. It was fun to watch but if people legitimately want to content on here and not have a team that is just fun to root for we need to stop pretending that a PG who is borderline top 30 would be the solution. We invested about 80% of the cap in front court players and didn't round out the team. That is why we suck. Not because we are not paying 10 mil for a PG outside the top 30.