Example

C-Chandler
F Artest
F Anthony
G Shumpert
G Felton

C Bargs
F Martin/or Amare
G Hardaway
G Udirih
G Prigioni

shelf JR Smith for now
Tyler
Diogu
Murry

I think this is better for two reasons. We start the game off with a good defensive lineup--quicker faster--more balanced. Second unit also has nice balance with three guards

for speed and spacing one tough big(either Amare or Kenyon and Bargs--who especially with Kenyon should be able to get closer to the basket)

What do you guys think>

that's been my preferred lineup since they signed Artest. I'd like to set the tone with defense, bring some offensive firepower off the bench.

Did anyone notice last night Artest harassing the one of the guards in the back court and it's affect on Shump? The two seem to go extra hard when their on the floor together (Prigs too) and I think it'll hopefully rub off on some others.

But simply put, Briggs is 100% correct in saying how it'll set the tone and that should be enough to make the switch.

sealy wrote:Absolutely agree.

Did anyone notice last night Artest harassing the one of the guards in the back court and it's affect on Shump? The two seem to go extra hard when their on the floor together (Prigs too) and I think it'll hopefully rub off on some others.

But simply put, Briggs is 100% correct in saying how it'll set the tone and that should be enough to make the switch.

Speaking of Prigioni, man is that guy a good little defender or what? I don't recall seeing a better harasser on in-bound plays and on plays when his man first gets the ball. GREAT hands and instincts on those kind of plays. Not only that, he's a good ballhawk defender shadowing his man the entire length of the floor too. Gave Ridnour all he could handle last night...Looks to be in GREAT shape as well and I like the way he's getting into the paint at will -- more so than last year it seems. If he can continue that, I'd like to see him go all the way and FINISH off some of that penetration. Very pleased with Pablo so far...Meant to say it on the game thread last night.

playa2 wrote:Who's gonna rebound with the second unit ?

Matter of fact who's gonna defend the pg's in the 2nd unit ?

We have two bigs and three smalls. You have size and speed. On top of it that has to be one of the best offensive second units in all of basketball--throughout the game you mix and match--its really not one or the other. But the first unit is putting our best foot forward to start the game--it makes a lot of sense. The second unit will have a talent edge on almost any team.

ChuckBuck wrote:I like it. I don't think Woody has any choice, Bargs in the starting lineup could cause us to be behind many games to start.

I hated that D'Antoni era, when we trailed every 1st quarter, only to fight back at the end and come short.

Let Bargs feast on 2nd units and Kmart or whoever is the PF(Diogu?) cover up the dirty work. Let Hardaway and Beno do their things off the bench, until JR is back.

Shumpert needs to get off to a fast start this season for this to work though. If not, expect the 2 PG lineup to come back(Prigs/Felt) which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

that bench would arguably be the worst defense unit ever assembled..

knicks1248 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:I like it. I don't think Woody has any choice, Bargs in the starting lineup could cause us to be behind many games to start.

I hated that D'Antoni era, when we trailed every 1st quarter, only to fight back at the end and come short.

Let Bargs feast on 2nd units and Kmart or whoever is the PF(Diogu?) cover up the dirty work. Let Hardaway and Beno do their things off the bench, until JR is back.

Shumpert needs to get off to a fast start this season for this to work though. If not, expect the 2 PG lineup to come back(Prigs/Felt) which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

that bench would arguably be the worst defense unit ever assembled..

Prigs and Kmart are that bad defensively?

Mind you this is the 2nd unit of teams.

BRIGGS wrote:

playa2 wrote:Who's gonna rebound with the second unit ?

Matter of fact who's gonna defend the pg's in the 2nd unit ?

We have two bigs and three smalls. You have size and speed. On top of it that has to be one of the best offensive second units in all of basketball--throughout the game you mix and match--its really not one or the other. But the first unit is putting our best foot forward to start the game--it makes a lot of sense. The second unit will have a talent edge on almost any team.

You mean we have one defensive big, he will have to recover Barganni's man most of the time with help defense which leaves his own man open.

IMHO that 2nd unit needs help defensively in the paint.

So what you are saying is Woody is going to go away from the tradition he learned from Red Holzman of letting rookies (Hardaway-Murry) learn from the bench in their rookie season ? I don't know if Woody can stomach that. They play if some injuries occur no doubt about that.

nixluva wrote:Sometimes things aren't what they seem.

      MIN FGM-A  3PM-A 	FTM-A 	OREB 	DREB 	REB 	AST 	STL 	BLK 	TO 	PF 	+/- 	PTS
MWP   22  3-12	  0-4	3-6	1	1	2	0	1	1	0	2	+9	9
Bargs 25  5-9	  1-2	2-2	0	1	1	0	0	1	2	2	-25	13
Melo  36  8-23	  2-3	4-7	4	5	9	7	1	0	4	4	-10	22

You look at the +/- and it looks like Bargs was just horrid, but if you think about his position and who he was guarding the Bucks points were coming from Butler (24), Ridnour (18), Mayo (22) and Neal (15) mostly on jumpers but also at the FT line. The problem wasn't Bargs being in the 1st unit. The Bucks Guards and SF's were killing the Knicks. They shot 52.2% and 62.5% from 3pt range!!! Meanwhile the Knicks were 39.8% and 31.3% from 3!!! The Bucks are a tough team for the Knicks big starting unit cuz they're playing small. The trick tho is that rather than having Melo take a ton of shots against small teams, they should've gone to Bargs in the post more often. Bargs only had 9 shots and against a small team he should be in the post a ton.

The Big lineup will only work if they get more efficient scoring from Melo and better defense on the perimeter. When MWP was in the game with Shump and they all picked up their effort level that made a difference defensively on the perimeter. The key to me is getting great defensive effort out of Felton, Shump and Melo on the perimeter if that's the starting unit.

I can understand wanting to have MWP guard the SF and let Melo guard the PF in order to hide Melo defensively. That's basically what people are asking for when talking about MWP in place of Bargs. Still the Bucks killed us at PG, SG and SF with no PF, so Melo will still be in trouble along with our PG who also gets killed. We can't let teams shoot 52% and 62% from 3 and ever expect to win.

Yeah, Luke outplayed Beno and it would've been uglier if Luke was a real penetrator. If Lowry was made few more layups and floaters, he would have put big numbers as well. Even Buyks had little rouble getting in the lane in our last game against Toronto. Stopping guard penetration is big weakness that has carried over from last year. Now, instead of Kidd we have Beno. We need to keep Shump and Prigs with Beno in the lineup to avoid mismatches with quick point guards.

nixluva wrote:I can understand wanting to have MWP guard the SF and let Melo guard the PF in order to hide Melo defensively. That's basically what people are asking for when talking about MWP in place of Bargs. Still the Bucks killed us at PG, SG and SF with no PF, so Melo will still be in trouble along with our PG who also gets killed. We can't let teams shoot 52% and 62% from 3 and ever expect to win.

thats the bottom line from me. Bargs and Melo arent good on defense. I dont like the idea of starting two BAD defensive players. Instead, add Artest to play the wing, hide melo at the 4 and brings AB in on the 2nd unit to play against weaker players

this was my concern with bargnani...it wasnt his skill set...it was his effort. its not even a numbers thing with bargs. you can tell my WATCHING him that hes lethargic on the defensive end