and i don't fault them for using it, every player will use, or be enhanced, in the future,

the problem we have as a society now is how to transition from performance drug use being against the rules to making it transparent and accepted,

the bag of cats that comes with something being against the rules is that a lot of people have to lie to make it happen,

it's these lies that we have to untangle first before we can move on, and these negotiations are a part of that process,

mira:

everyone has their natural level and their enhanced level, craig ehlo on hgh will never drop buckets like lebron,

so if we just get everyone to the green line, it doesn't really matter, and the overall quality of the product on the hardwoods improves:

EnySpree wrote:Makes you wonder about these players. Lebron has been a freak since he was in high school and he looked like he was 30 years old back then, receding hairline and all.

yeah. The very fact that they are fighting this leads me to think more than a few players are juicing.

smackeddog wrote:Why would they agree to it? They have nothing to gain at all from it. Some of you need to go back to negotiation school! Why agree to stuff that has no benefit and can only get you in trouble?

Dagger wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Dagger wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:they don't want it because there are many people on it maybe?

and i don't fault them for using it, every player will use, or be enhanced, in the future,

the problem we have as a society now is how to transition from performance drug use being against the rules to making it transparent and accepted,

the bag of cats that comes with something being against the rules is that a lot of people have to lie to make it happen,

it's these lies that we have to untangle first before we can move on, and these negotiations are a part of that process,

mira:

everyone has their natural level and their enhanced level, craig ehlo on hgh will never drop buckets like lebron,

so if we just get everyone to the green line, it doesn't really matter, and the overall quality of the product on the hardwoods improves:

I can't believe you took the time to make a graph to convey such a simple idea, I don't think anyone needed that image to grasp what you were saying. Steroids are not only prohibited because of the way they affect performance, they are also banned because they cause unhealthy side effects in the long-run that the league does not want to be associated with. Allowing them opens up a can of worms in terms of legal liability.

take it easy, cool breeze;

maybe i need to draw another graph to convey another simple idea, an idea that you do not grasp yet:

performance enhancing drugs are only dangerous if misused, if applied correctly, with appropriate pre- and post- treatment, a man can use them well into old age and live a healthy, happy life;

another thing: pro athletes destroy themselves for a living to begin with, by your reasoning we should ban professional sports.

Who says they are only dangerous if misused, they have been proven to have degenerative effects on the body. I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and guess that you are defending steroids because maybe you use them when you do your squats or whatever....? Any drug that you unnecessarily put in your body that requires "appropriate pre- and post- treatment" just to be handled is probably not a good idea. Pro athletes do not destroy their bodies, they strengthen their bodies, reaching peak physical condition is not unhealthy. The only pro sport where I agree with you is football, and that is due to the predominantly violent nature of that specific sport. Plenty of athletes stay in good shape after their playing days are over, and many are the golden standard for healthy living. In regards to a sport like football that is especially physical, your argument of "they already damage themselves so why not do even more damaging things to their bodies" is still wrong. If you smoke everyday it doesn't meant that you should drink every night merely because your body is already in trouble...

Dagger wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

Dagger wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:they don't want it because there are many people on it maybe?

and i don't fault them for using it, every player will use, or be enhanced, in the future,

the problem we have as a society now is how to transition from performance drug use being against the rules to making it transparent and accepted,

the bag of cats that comes with something being against the rules is that a lot of people have to lie to make it happen,

it's these lies that we have to untangle first before we can move on, and these negotiations are a part of that process,

mira:

everyone has their natural level and their enhanced level, craig ehlo on hgh will never drop buckets like lebron,

so if we just get everyone to the green line, it doesn't really matter, and the overall quality of the product on the hardwoods improves:

I can't believe you took the time to make a graph to convey such a simple idea, I don't think anyone needed that image to grasp what you were saying. Steroids are not only prohibited because of the way they affect performance, they are also banned because they cause unhealthy side effects in the long-run that the league does not want to be associated with. Allowing them opens up a can of worms in terms of legal liability.

take it easy, cool breeze;

maybe i need to draw another graph to convey another simple idea, an idea that you do not grasp yet:

performance enhancing drugs are only dangerous if misused, if applied correctly, with appropriate pre- and post- treatment, a man can use them well into old age and live a healthy, happy life;

another thing: pro athletes destroy themselves for a living to begin with, by your reasoning we should ban professional sports.

Who says they are only dangerous if misused, they have been proven to have degenerative effects on the body. I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and guess that you are defending steroids because maybe you use them when you do your squats or whatever....?

i'm gonna stop you there and smack you around a little bit,

i am a proponent of drug-free, old-school training, (google: brooks kubik, dinosaur training)

and my lift stats are not impressive at all, they are as follows:

squat, 1rm 270 @ 220bw
deadlift, 1rm 340 @220bw
bench, 1rm 160 @220bw
overhead press, 1rm 120@220bw

you don't need to use steroids when you are a beginner, the gains come so rapidly with just a gallon of milk a day and hitting the heavy compound lifts,

steroids and performance enhancing drugs come into play when the athlete is already at or near his peak natural potential,

which is where pro ballers are, and i absolutely support performance enhancing drug use in professional sports because it will make for a better product on the field--- better entertainment value;

everyone loved it when guys were slugging 70 homers a year, but now you want to become a righteous prick.

save the "OH IT'S BAD FOR YOU" ****, get real, wake up;

gunsnewing wrote:That graph SMH. The effectiveness is in the brilliance of its simplicity lol

the mark of great engineering, the mark of sophistication, the mark of everything that is good and worth a damn in this world is simplicity,

heavy squats, heavy deadlifts,

the bicycle is simple but is the single greatest invention in the history of man,

;

sometimes the simplest ideas are the most difficult to articulate;

if i learned anything in life it's to back up your points with lots of pictures and make things as simple and as clear as possible;

Dagger wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:you're clueless on steroids or performance enhancing drugs,

and you're clueless on drug use in general,

there is a time and place for everything,

for example: your time to discuss stuff you don't know anything about is not in this thread.

Unsurprisingly, you have misinterpreted my point. I do not care whether...harmful to players or not, I am saying that the league does not want to be legally connected with any problems steroid use may create

i already addressed that in op,

the bag of cats that comes with something being against the rules is that a lot of people have to lie to make it happen,

it's these lies that we have to untangle first before we can move on, and these negotiations are a part of that process,

you were so eager to jump on the simplicity of the little blue and green lines while the bag of cats was too complex,

i put that chart there for people like you