NardDogNation wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:they wanted the hot iron on bargs,

payed a price that tells me they expect him to play big part in team,

so they feel confident he will contribute, and if he contributes something in the ballpark of 1 or 2 years ago, then this is solid and the picks traded i do not worry about,

You are missing the point. This discussion is about the Knicks, AGAIN, not maximizing their assets. We wouldn't have needed to include the picks, at least the first rounder, if we were using both Camby and a 2014/2015 expiring contract from Milwaukee. Our leverage, at that point, would've been the ability to save the Raptors alot of money, which should've been strong enough incentive for a question mark like Bargnani. Having traded away our picks, it forces us to effectively rebuild in one offseason as opposed to several since we can't afford the PR nightmare of surrendering a 2016 lottery pick. That kind of situation is too reminiscent of Walsh in 2010, following the McGrady trade. The end result of that was Amare and look at what he was just 1 season later.

damn that really sucks,

if bargs drops 15/4 on 40% treys will you forgive and forget?

IronWillGiroud wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:they wanted the hot iron on bargs,

payed a price that tells me they expect him to play big part in team,

so they feel confident he will contribute, and if he contributes something in the ballpark of 1 or 2 years ago, then this is solid and the picks traded i do not worry about,

You are missing the point. This discussion is about the Knicks, AGAIN, not maximizing their assets. We wouldn't have needed to include the picks, at least the first rounder, if we were using both Camby and a 2014/2015 expiring contract from Milwaukee. Our leverage, at that point, would've been the ability to save the Raptors alot of money, which should've been strong enough incentive for a question mark like Bargnani. Having traded away our picks, it forces us to effectively rebuild in one offseason as opposed to several since we can't afford the PR nightmare of surrendering a 2016 lottery pick. That kind of situation is too reminiscent of Walsh in 2010, following the McGrady trade. The end result of that was Amare and look at what he was just 1 season later.

damn that really sucks,

if bargs drops 15/4 on 40% treys will you forgive and forget?

IronWillGiroud wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:they wanted the hot iron on bargs,

payed a price that tells me they expect him to play big part in team,

so they feel confident he will contribute, and if he contributes something in the ballpark of 1 or 2 years ago, then this is solid and the picks traded i do not worry about,

You are missing the point. This discussion is about the Knicks, AGAIN, not maximizing their assets. We wouldn't have needed to include the picks, at least the first rounder, if we were using both Camby and a 2014/2015 expiring contract from Milwaukee. Our leverage, at that point, would've been the ability to save the Raptors alot of money, which should've been strong enough incentive for a question mark like Bargnani. Having traded away our picks, it forces us to effectively rebuild in one offseason as opposed to several since we can't afford the PR nightmare of surrendering a 2016 lottery pick. That kind of situation is too reminiscent of Walsh in 2010, following the McGrady trade. The end result of that was Amare and look at what he was just 1 season later.

damn that really sucks,

if bargs drops 15/4 on 40% treys will you forgive and forget?

No. 15ppg and 4rpg isn't worth the long term ramifications. And like I told another poster, I'm cool with having Bargnani aboard because I think he can help. Losing that draft pick though could **** us for a decade because of the nature of this franchise. I could see us signing a 31 year old Melo (who I'm a huge fan of) to Kobe money (aka half the cap) so that he sticks around and then some dud free agents to expensive, long term deals (e.g. an Amare Stoudemire type players). Before you know it, the wheels fall off Melo, like they did Allan Houston after he signed his ridiculous contract and are left with an aged, overrated supporting cast and no draft picks in hopes of getting a franchise player.

smackeddog wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:The jury is out on Bargnani. As a Knick fan i want him to to finally live up to his potential. However you cant blame some fans for being a little apprehensive. i mean this is a guy who the rapotor fans held a paade when he was finally traded lol. he is injury prone and he is known for being on the soft side. Like i said i hope he proves us wrong and becomes another good scorer because god knows we need another scoring threat

I suppose we now have "hope". Personally, I'd prefer a lottery pick because I thought this guy was a dud from year 3. You can't expect a guy to be a main contributor when all he does is shoot jumpers and plays putrid defense. He's basically a higher paid Steve Novak and his role will be of a similar capacity. This isn't to say that he couldn't be useful because I think he can be. My real issue is the lack of foresight involved in this trade, namely with the draft pick. This feels errily similar to the McGrady deal that forced our hand in 2010.

The worst part is, now it looks like Denver is about to suck for a few years, the justification of trading the pick (it would be likely very late as Denver could swap theirs for it) doesn't even apply anymore!

Bro, we can suck worse in 2016. Our roster clearly isn't even going to be NBA material by then, which means we'll be dependent on free agent signings ALONE to fill out the ranks. Most difference makers (as a hoopshype article alluded to) are drafted AND NOT signed. In other words, if we don't pull a Miami Heat in that 2015 offseason, we are screwed since the Knicks won't have picks and won't stand idly by.

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:they wanted the hot iron on bargs,

payed a price that tells me they expect him to play big part in team,

so they feel confident he will contribute, and if he contributes something in the ballpark of 1 or 2 years ago, then this is solid and the picks traded i do not worry about,

You are missing the point. This discussion is about the Knicks, AGAIN, not maximizing their assets. We wouldn't have needed to include the picks, at least the first rounder, if we were using both Camby and a 2014/2015 expiring contract from Milwaukee. Our leverage, at that point, would've been the ability to save the Raptors alot of money, which should've been strong enough incentive for a question mark like Bargnani. Having traded away our picks, it forces us to effectively rebuild in one offseason as opposed to several since we can't afford the PR nightmare of surrendering a 2016 lottery pick. That kind of situation is too reminiscent of Walsh in 2010, following the McGrady trade. The end result of that was Amare and look at what he was just 1 season later.

damn that really sucks,

if bargs drops 15/4 on 40% treys will you forgive and forget?

You talking about 4 rbs per game as a PF/C? Please tell me the 4 refers to blocks or assists.

Bonn for this trade to makes sense and be a positive for the Knicks--we need to treat Bargs more like a traditional 5 or high scoring 4--where they are dedicated to more low post play that outside. They are responsible for rebounding the ball and taking higher % shots. The only way I owuld do this is by making the most of a guy who is 7-0 260. Hes got nice skills inside and he shoots FTs at 85%. So he needs to be the inside out man. Go into Bargs and let him create and if he has nothing--move the ball around. Its ok to pop out for occasional 3's or mid range but a man that big who does not have footspeed needs to play in the post. It works for Dirk because he has more agility and less body weight. Bargs is a bigger guy--he needs to take better shots we need that low post offense and he needs to take responsibility to rebound the bal. If we play him like a sf we will SCK bad. We already have a volume 3 we need an efficient 5 who can give us 20+ in the low block grab 8-9 rebounds and shoots 50%

Pau Gasol/KG is the ALL ROUND type of players we need at Center

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:they wanted the hot iron on bargs,

payed a price that tells me they expect him to play big part in team,

so they feel confident he will contribute, and if he contributes something in the ballpark of 1 or 2 years ago, then this is solid and the picks traded i do not worry about,

You are missing the point. This discussion is about the Knicks, AGAIN, not maximizing their assets. We wouldn't have needed to include the picks, at least the first rounder, if we were using both Camby and a 2014/2015 expiring contract from Milwaukee. Our leverage, at that point, would've been the ability to save the Raptors alot of money, which should've been strong enough incentive for a question mark like Bargnani. Having traded away our picks, it forces us to effectively rebuild in one offseason as opposed to several since we can't afford the PR nightmare of surrendering a 2016 lottery pick. That kind of situation is too reminiscent of Walsh in 2010, following the McGrady trade. The end result of that was Amare and look at what he was just 1 season later.

damn that really sucks,

if bargs drops 15/4 on 40% treys will you forgive and forget?

You talking about 4 rbs per game as a PF/C? Please tell me the 4 refers to blocks or assists.

Bonn for this trade to makes sense and be a positive for the Knicks--we need to treat Bargs more like a traditional 5 or high scoring 4--where they are dedicated to more low post play that outside. They are responsible for rebounding the ball and taking higher % shots. The only way I owuld do this is by making the most of a guy who is 7-0 260. Hes got nice skills inside and he shoots FTs at 85%. So he needs to be the inside out man. Go into Bargs and let him create and if he has nothing--move the ball around. Its ok to pop out for occasional 3's or mid range but a man that big who does not have footspeed needs to play in the post. It works for Dirk because he has more agility and less body weight. Bargs is a bigger guy--he needs to take better shots we need that low post offense and he needs to take responsibility to rebound the bal. If we play him like a sf we will SCK bad. We already have a volume 3 we need an efficient 5 who can give us 20+ in the low block grab 8-9 rebounds and shoots 50%

It's going to be year 8 this dude. If he was going to be all of that as a "big", why has it taken this long? Do you think the European Eddy Curry is worth draft picks that could potentially force this franchise's hand and reset the mediocrity treadmill?

NardDogNation wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:they wanted the hot iron on bargs,

payed a price that tells me they expect him to play big part in team,

so they feel confident he will contribute, and if he contributes something in the ballpark of 1 or 2 years ago, then this is solid and the picks traded i do not worry about,

You are missing the point. This discussion is about the Knicks, AGAIN, not maximizing their assets. We wouldn't have needed to include the picks, at least the first rounder, if we were using both Camby and a 2014/2015 expiring contract from Milwaukee. Our leverage, at that point, would've been the ability to save the Raptors alot of money, which should've been strong enough incentive for a question mark like Bargnani. Having traded away our picks, it forces us to effectively rebuild in one offseason as opposed to several since we can't afford the PR nightmare of surrendering a 2016 lottery pick. That kind of situation is too reminiscent of Walsh in 2010, following the McGrady trade. The end result of that was Amare and look at what he was just 1 season later.

damn that really sucks,

if bargs drops 15/4 on 40% treys will you forgive and forget?

You talking about 4 rbs per game as a PF/C? Please tell me the 4 refers to blocks or assists.

Bonn for this trade to makes sense and be a positive for the Knicks--we need to treat Bargs more like a traditional 5 or high scoring 4--where they are dedicated to more low post play that outside. They are responsible for rebounding the ball and taking higher % shots. The only way I owuld do this is by making the most of a guy who is 7-0 260. Hes got nice skills inside and he shoots FTs at 85%. So he needs to be the inside out man. Go into Bargs and let him create and if he has nothing--move the ball around. Its ok to pop out for occasional 3's or mid range but a man that big who does not have footspeed needs to play in the post. It works for Dirk because he has more agility and less body weight. Bargs is a bigger guy--he needs to take better shots we need that low post offense and he needs to take responsibility to rebound the bal. If we play him like a sf we will SCK bad. We already have a volume 3 we need an efficient 5 who can give us 20+ in the low block grab 8-9 rebounds and shoots 50%

It's going to be year 8 this dude. If he was going to be all of that as a "big", why has it taken this long? Do you think the European Eddy Curry is worth draft picks that could potentially force this franchise's hand and reset the mediocrity treadmill?

"European Eddy Curry" lol!