On the front page but I'll link anyway: http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/46096/sources-bucks-want-smith-and-copeland

What's everyone's take on this? Is there anything here? Can we even make such a deal?

EnySpree wrote:The knicks can't do sign and trades cuz were over the cap....jr smith could sign an offer sheet with money way more than we expected and we'd have to turn our heads like we did Lin. That would suck, unless grunwald could make a trade to loosen up the roster with the contracts we already have

They just can't receive any S&Ts right now. They can send players in a S&T. The only reason why JR would do a S&T would be the other teams talk to the knicks before they offer JR to keep his price down.

yellowboy90 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The knicks can't do sign and trades cuz were over the cap....jr smith could sign an offer sheet with money way more than we expected and we'd have to turn our heads like we did Lin. That would suck, unless grunwald could make a trade to loosen up the roster with the contracts we already have

They just can't receive any S&Ts right now. They can send players in a S&T. The only reason why JR would do a S&T would be the other teams talk to the knicks before they offer JR to keep his price down.

I was under the impression they couldn't sign and Reade at all. Having Smiths bird rights us to retain him. I don't think you are allowed to flip him in a sign and trade.

If you're right then i want Jennings back for Smith

EnySpree wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:JR Smith might be a fool but he does defend and he can fill it up. Cant put it past Milwaukee to offer JR Smith close to what they were going to offer Eliis and that's 3 years 36.

What if that does happen? Knicks will not match that especially when they are looking to low ball him at 5 mull a year.

Knicks can only offer 5 million. We are over the cap and dont have JR Smith's full bird rights.

yellowboy90 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:The knicks can't do sign and trades cuz were over the cap....jr smith could sign an offer sheet with money way more than we expected and we'd have to turn our heads like we did Lin. That would suck, unless grunwald could make a trade to loosen up the roster with the contracts we already have

They just can't receive any S&Ts right now. They can send players in a S&T. The only reason why JR would do a S&T would be the other teams talk to the knicks before they offer JR to keep his price down.

OK - so technically we CAN send him, just instead of getting a package of players back worth 5-someting-million (whatever the max is we can start Smith off at), we could get that pick back at 15 which has no salary amount attached to it, right?

Man, if this is possible, I pursue this deal like a madman if I'm Gunwald. I don't even want Smith back, talking about just letting him walk. Imagine if we could flip him for the 15th pick? If the rules say we can't do it, then that's that. But if, being over the cap, we're allowed to get a pick(s) back, then I can see something here...The Bucks reportedly want him and there's no question they want him at a reduced rate (the Knicks' max offer) rather than spending another 2-3M getting him on the open market. JR probably wants no part of going there but picture this -- suppose we really do let him walk, Milwaukee doesn't want him at the open market price and there are no other suitors? Where's he going then, back to China? Where would you rather go -- Milwaukee or back to China? He couldn't wait to leave China man -- he supposedly pulled out of his deal early to come to the Knicks and his Chinese team sued him for breaching his contract I thought, no? Whatever happened with that?? Anyway, then suppose Milwaukee agrees to take on Smith's brother, Chris, with a guaranteed deal? How does JR turn that down?? I can see something here a little bit...

Tell ya all what -- I might even sweeten it up for Milwaukee -- Smith AND pick 24 for picks 15 and 43. I'd secure Isaiah Canaan at 15, then try to get a quick feel whether or not Mike Muscala or Jamelle Hagins would be there at 43. If either is (Hagins more likely), it's a homerun draft. Quality PG and big man for a guy I'd just assume let walk anyway. Or, say we really want our cake and eat it too and want Muscala but don't want to leave it up to chance that he'll be there at 43, I'd then try to flip 43 + cash (if we have any to use, maybe future cash considerations if that's allowed--it is in other sports), the Ronnie Brewer trade exception, a future 2--whatever we can do--to move up as high as I could into the 30s and take Muscala there. JR Smith's replacable; so is Chris Copeland...A Canaan/Muscala draft would be unreal.

My dream draft as of right now would be -- Isaiah Canaan, Mike Muscala (or Jamelle Hagins), then try to make a small deal with whatever leftover resources for a pick in the 55-60 range and secure Tyler Brown or Dwayne Davis there. Quality PG, quality big and we steal an intriguing/underrated 2G prospect late, Manu Ginobli style....I'd love to see Grunwald get as greedy as he possibly could tonight!

To all the CBA gurus out there -- is any of this possible?

The knicks really need to spread out there options and actively research plan a-z

Finestrg wrote:Man, if this is possible, I pursue this deal like a madman if I'm Gunwald. I don't even want Smith back, talking about just letting him walk. Imagine if we could flip him for the 15th pick? If the rules say we can't do it, then that's that. But if, being over the cap, we're allowed to get a pick(s) back, then I can see something here...The Bucks reportedly want him and there's no question they want him at a reduced rate (the Knicks' max offer) rather than spending another 2-3M getting him on the open market. JR probably wants no part of going there but picture this -- suppose we really do let him walk, Milwaukee doesn't want him at the open market price and there are no other suitors? Where's he going then, back to China? Where would you rather go -- Milwaukee or back to China? He couldn't wait to leave China man -- he supposedly pulled out of his deal early to come to the Knicks and his Chinese team sued him for breaching his contract I thought, no? Whatever happened with that?? Anyway, then suppose Milwaukee agrees to take on Smith's brother, Chris, with a guaranteed deal? How does JR turn that down?? I can see something here a little bit...

Tell ya all what -- I might even sweeten it up for Milwaukee -- Smith AND pick 24 for picks 15 and 43. I'd secure Isaiah Canaan at 15, then try to get a quick feel whether or not Mike Muscala or Jamelle Hagins would be there at 43. If either is (Hagins more likely), it's a homerun draft. Quality PG and big man for a guy I'd just assume let walk anyway. Or, say we really want our cake and eat it too and want Muscala but don't want to leave it up to chance that he'll be there at 43, I'd then try to flip 43 + cash (if we have any to use, maybe future cash considerations if that's allowed--it is in other sports), the Ronnie Brewer trade exception, a future 2--whatever we can do--to move up as high as I could into the 30s and take Muscala there. JR Smith's replacable; so is Chris Copeland...A Canaan/Muscala draft would be unreal.

My dream draft as of right now would be -- Isaiah Canaan, Mike Muscala (or Jamelle Hagins), then try to make a small deal with whatever leftover resources for a pick in the 55-60 range and secure Tyler Brown or Dwayne Davis there. Quality PG, quality big and we steal an intriguing/underrated 2G prospect late, Manu Ginobli style....I'd love to see Grunwald get as greedy as he possibly could tonight!

To all the CBA gurus out there -- is any of this possible?

Wrote something similar in another post.. assuming a s&t is possible, by all accounts.. I think we can't take on additional traded salary because we are exceeding the cap smh.. BUT if it were within league rules, I'd make such a move. #15 for Copeland and JR. Ideally, i'd select Olynyk @ 15 and replace JR @24 W/ Ledo. I also like adding 24 for 15 (Still taking Kelly Olynyk) and 43... But I'd draft Myck Kabongo- Texas or Ray McCallum from Detroit over Isiah Canaan.

We'd have a more balanced offense, we'd be slower defensively but still sound in the front court. Olynyk would play well off of Chandler and Melo. Kabongo would be a steady playmaker for NYK! McCallum might be Russell Westbrook light.. don't sleep.

JayNYC wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Man, if this is possible, I pursue this deal like a madman if I'm Gunwald. I don't even want Smith back, talking about just letting him walk. Imagine if we could flip him for the 15th pick? If the rules say we can't do it, then that's that. But if, being over the cap, we're allowed to get a pick(s) back, then I can see something here...The Bucks reportedly want him and there's no question they want him at a reduced rate (the Knicks' max offer) rather than spending another 2-3M getting him on the open market. JR probably wants no part of going there but picture this -- suppose we really do let him walk, Milwaukee doesn't want him at the open market price and there are no other suitors? Where's he going then, back to China? Where would you rather go -- Milwaukee or back to China? He couldn't wait to leave China man -- he supposedly pulled out of his deal early to come to the Knicks and his Chinese team sued him for breaching his contract I thought, no? Whatever happened with that?? Anyway, then suppose Milwaukee agrees to take on Smith's brother, Chris, with a guaranteed deal? How does JR turn that down?? I can see something here a little bit...

Tell ya all what -- I might even sweeten it up for Milwaukee -- Smith AND pick 24 for picks 15 and 43. I'd secure Isaiah Canaan at 15, then try to get a quick feel whether or not Mike Muscala or Jamelle Hagins would be there at 43. If either is (Hagins more likely), it's a homerun draft. Quality PG and big man for a guy I'd just assume let walk anyway. Or, say we really want our cake and eat it too and want Muscala but don't want to leave it up to chance that he'll be there at 43, I'd then try to flip 43 + cash (if we have any to use, maybe future cash considerations if that's allowed--it is in other sports), the Ronnie Brewer trade exception, a future 2--whatever we can do--to move up as high as I could into the 30s and take Muscala there. JR Smith's replacable; so is Chris Copeland...A Canaan/Muscala draft would be unreal.

My dream draft as of right now would be -- Isaiah Canaan, Mike Muscala (or Jamelle Hagins), then try to make a small deal with whatever leftover resources for a pick in the 55-60 range and secure Tyler Brown or Dwayne Davis there. Quality PG, quality big and we steal an intriguing/underrated 2G prospect late, Manu Ginobli style....I'd love to see Grunwald get as greedy as he possibly could tonight!

To all the CBA gurus out there -- is any of this possible?

Wrote something similar in another post.. assuming a s&t is possible, by all accounts.. I think we can't take on additional traded salary because we are exceeding the cap smh.. BUT if it were within league rules, I'd make such a move. #15 for Copeland and JR. Ideally, i'd select Olynyk @ 15 and replace JR @24 W/ Ledo. I also like adding 24 for 15 (Still taking Kelly Olynyk) and 43... But I'd draft Myck Kabongo- Texas or Ray McCallum from Detroit over Isiah Canaan.

We'd have a more balanced offense, we'd be slower defensively but still sound in the front court. Olynyk would play well off of Chandler and Melo. Kabongo would be a steady playmaker for NYK! McCallum might be Russell Westbrook light.. don't sleep.

We could do that too. Not bad at all. At 43 this kid Kabongo makes sense (think I like McCallum there more though, maybe even Pierre Jackson even with him being so tiny). And Olynyk and Ledo feel like proper value at 15 & 24...To get this done though -- if we had to include #24 to hopefully get back #43, I would. It might be more realistic and give Milwaukee further incentive to get it done...It would mean no Ledo at 24 though...But I'm with ya, Jay. I'd pursue this deal hard...I've been talking for weeks about letting JR Smith just walk right outta town...I mean if there's a chance we could flip him for the 15th pick in this draft somehow -- wow, what a homerun that would be.