We need an old school 4. While many teams have moved away--you can see in both series that a bruising player works. Id like to see us invest a couple of million and buy two 2nd round draft picks and key on two players

A. Richard Howell PF NCST

B. Ricky Ledo--we do not have a pick next year in what will be the best draft of the last 10 years. While their may be character issues--Ricky is a top 10 type talent basketball wise. I do not believe the 15th man should be a 30 year old. While James White may have helped for a few minutes--his ultimate value is very very low. Look at the example of Lance Stephenson--put a kid in a good situation and set him up for success and he should--if he cant--hes a 2nd round pick. Uconn especially JC has been an unbelievable judge of talent--he called Ricky the next Rudy Gay from the SG position--that type of talent. Thats the type you cultivate--put him in the D league for half the year work on his body and mind and bring him back to the club mid way through the season.

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Knicks.htm

blkexec wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks have been very resourceful in acquiring guys. Getting Gallo and Cope was huge. Getting Fields and Jorts in the second round were great picks but I don't think you build a championship roster with 2nd rounders. Maybe you fill out your roster. I am pretty sure the Knicks have moved a lot of their 2nd round picks in trades already.

I trust this GM and I think getting out of the first round was key to adding key players in the off season. Plus, everybody wants to ride the hot hand, and everybody knows we are in a tight window to win it all now. So our GM will get enough players to be competitive.

The question will be, are we adding Woodson type players? There aren't too many Rasheed Wallace types these days. He was a special tallent.....with offense, defense and rebounding skills. But I'm sure we will add another vet with similar skills to Wallace, kidd, etc....Lets just hope we only give out 1 yr contracts! Like the Giants do or did this off season!

And we have money to pay for??????? Shaq coming back?

BRIGGS wrote:

blkexec wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks have been very resourceful in acquiring guys. Getting Gallo and Cope was huge. Getting Fields and Jorts in the second round were great picks but I don't think you build a championship roster with 2nd rounders. Maybe you fill out your roster. I am pretty sure the Knicks have moved a lot of their 2nd round picks in trades already.

I trust this GM and I think getting out of the first round was key to adding key players in the off season. Plus, everybody wants to ride the hot hand, and everybody knows we are in a tight window to win it all now. So our GM will get enough players to be competitive.

The question will be, are we adding Woodson type players? There aren't too many Rasheed Wallace types these days. He was a special tallent.....with offense, defense and rebounding skills. But I'm sure we will add another vet with similar skills to Wallace, kidd, etc....Lets just hope we only give out 1 yr contracts! Like the Giants do or did this off season!

And we have money to pay for??????? Shaq coming back?

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks have been very resourceful in acquiring guys. Getting Gallo and Cope was huge. Getting Fields and Jorts in the second round were great picks but I don't think you build a championship roster with 2nd rounders. Maybe you fill out your roster. I am pretty sure the Knicks have moved a lot of their 2nd round picks in trades already.

We have been resourceful but now were out of resources! He spent a LOT of money in his two years and with carmelo Anthony the best we can do is 1 or 2 wins in the 2nd round? Thats not that good.

Grunwald didn't spend money on Carmelo. Tyson is on Grunwald's watch. Melo and Amare are from the Walsh era.

Im well aware of that. The players he put around Melo havent got it done if we want to bottom line it. On top of which this is NOT an up and coming team. We have one young player(Shumpert) We have 7mm $ stuck into Camby and Kidd and they cant even play. Tyson Chandler hasnt got it done for us two years running in the playoffs. Thats 22mm right there and 5 2nd rounders I believe,

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks have been very resourceful in acquiring guys. Getting Gallo and Cope was huge. Getting Fields and Jorts in the second round were great picks but I don't think you build a championship roster with 2nd rounders. Maybe you fill out your roster. I am pretty sure the Knicks have moved a lot of their 2nd round picks in trades already.

The Spurs might disagree. They drafted Manu with the last pick in the 2nd round/draft and Tony Parker was selected 28th, which very well could be considered a 2nd round pick. The Knicks just have to be smarter with the picks they make and develop an apparatus better suited toward developing those picks.

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks have been very resourceful in acquiring guys. Getting Gallo and Cope was huge. Getting Fields and Jorts in the second round were great picks but I don't think you build a championship roster with 2nd rounders. Maybe you fill out your roster. I am pretty sure the Knicks have moved a lot of their 2nd round picks in trades already.

The Spurs might disagree. They drafted Manu with the last pick in the 2nd round/draft and Tony Parker was selected 28th, which very well could be considered a 2nd round pick. The Knicks just have to be smarter with the picks they make and develop an apparatus better suited toward developing those picks.

I think the euro stash of a second round pick is a great strategy. The Knicks set themselves up for that possibility last year but later traded their pick for Camby. The Knicks don't have Robinson and Duncan like the Spurs did when they drafted Manu. They are trying to win now and don't have enough to do it. I am sure that Grunwald saw last years pick as both a developmental player or part of a trade package. However, he didn't have the luxury of waiting for three years for that guy to develop and come to the nba if they he could improve his team in the present. The Spurs are a great model for longtime relevance and winning. The Knicks are just trying to become a winning team.

We are a winning team; that's one of the few redeemable things we have going. I just don't think we have a sustainable model for winning or the pieces to be anything more than entertaining in the regular season.

We need a certified star player along with Melo, which I admit, is unlikely to come in the 2nd round. Given our cap situation though, it is unlikely that we get this player by signing him, so we need to develop the assets (through draft picks) to trade for him. Had we been doing this, we might've had a shot at a James Harden, Chris Paul and Josh Smith, Rajon Rondo, etc in the near future. Even if we elected to keep the picks, a Marc Gasol, Manu Ginobli, Kevin Martin, Luis Scola, Marcin Gortat, DeAndre Jordan, Nikola Pekovic, Paul Millsap, Chandler Parsons, etcetera could've helped us tremendously today.

NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks have been very resourceful in acquiring guys. Getting Gallo and Cope was huge. Getting Fields and Jorts in the second round were great picks but I don't think you build a championship roster with 2nd rounders. Maybe you fill out your roster. I am pretty sure the Knicks have moved a lot of their 2nd round picks in trades already.

The Spurs might disagree. They drafted Manu with the last pick in the 2nd round/draft and Tony Parker was selected 28th, which very well could be considered a 2nd round pick. The Knicks just have to be smarter with the picks they make and develop an apparatus better suited toward developing those picks.

I think the euro stash of a second round pick is a great strategy. The Knicks set themselves up for that possibility last year but later traded their pick for Camby. The Knicks don't have Robinson and Duncan like the Spurs did when they drafted Manu. They are trying to win now and don't have enough to do it. I am sure that Grunwald saw last years pick as both a developmental player or part of a trade package. However, he didn't have the luxury of waiting for three years for that guy to develop and come to the nba if they he could improve his team in the present. The Spurs are a great model for longtime relevance and winning. The Knicks are just trying to become a winning team.

We are a winning team; that's one of the few redeemable things we have going. I just don't think we have a sustainable model for winning or the pieces to be anything more than entertaining in the regular season.

We need a certified star player along with Melo, which I admit, is unlikely to come in the 2nd round. Given our cap situation though, it is unlikely that we get this player by signing him, so we need to develop the assets (through draft picks) to trade for him. Had we been doing this, we might've had a shot at a James Harden, Chris Paul and Josh Smith, Rajon Rondo, etc in the near future. Even if we elected to keep the picks, a Marc Gasol, Manu Ginobli, Kevin Martin, Luis Scola, Marcin Gortat, DeAndre Jordan, Nikola Pekovic, Paul Millsap, Chandler Parsons, etcetera could've helped us tremendously today.

Bingo.

1st round pick
Erick Green PG/SG, VA Tech - Best case - Steph Curry/Worst case - Devin Harris (a player Green likes and probably tries to emulate). Something in between would be amazing. It would also be amazing if he were still there at 24 (something I have trouble seeing). If he is, he's gotta be our guy. Not a pure point but has developed enough skill to help out at the 1 and also at 2G (6'3" -- Steph Curry operates at SG at the same height). Extra value to us if JR bolts... Not some Aubrey Coleman-type that just puts up scoring numbers at low efficiency -- this kid's stats were extremely efficient right across the board.

2nd round picks
Brandon Davies PF, BYU - a long 6'9"+ 230 long, very good scorer in the post. Assortment of moves with good footwork both facing up and with his back to the basket. Footwork is solid enough although he has a tendency to take an extra step at times which he very rarely got called for in college (as in hop step, then 2 long strides to the goal--he did it a lot and I'm surprised he got away with it). He's gonna have to work that out -- that's a walk in the NBA and just doesn't look right on TV when I've seen him. He cleans that up he'll be a very efficient scorer on the interior at the next level. Doesn't go all out on every play like you'd like to see and not the greatest rebounder/shot-blocker (plays happen right in front of him where you're left scratching your head as to why he didn't engage) but it's the offensive prowess that makes him intriguing. Bottom line is I want to see us come up with some interior offense for next yr somewhere. It's gotta be a top priority. Can't possibly field a team next yr where STAT is the sole interior scorer. If Amar'e breaks down again next year, I want a backup interior scorer(s) we can go to at a moment's notice...We need that desperately for balance... I originally looked at Davies as a SL/training camp invite; now off the solid Portsmouth showing (Portsmouth MVP), I think he'll get drafted. Making a small trade to add a deep pick shouldn't be too difficult provided Dolan green lights $1-3M to use in a trade. If we could land Green at 24 and then grab this kid Davies in the 2nd round (or after the draft if he goes undrafted), that's one hell of a draft.

Glen Rice Jr. SG/SF, G-Tech/NBA D-league - very unusual case - dismissed from school for mischief (allowed a friend to drive his car drunk after leaving a club where another friend discharged a firearm?), went straight to the NBDL and excelled for the Rio Grande Vipers. Won the DL championship and he was a big reason why. Managed to somehow retain his eligibility for the 2013 draft. 6'6" 215 (bulked up about 10 lbs. since college), this kid can shoot and really get to the rim. Shutdown defensive potential. College teammates with Iman Shumpert so there could be an instant comfort level in NY with the Knicks. The more I think about this kid -- how he was able to bulk up/get stronger and turn a disaster (college dismissal) into and instant positive (DL playoff run and championship where he averaged 25 ppg over 6 playoff games), the more I like him for us.

Pierre Jackson PG, Baylor - Even at 5'10" or so, I'm a believer. Really became a big fan after Baylor beat Kansas on national tv. He was great that day, as was Cory Jefferson...I see a lot of Nate Robinson only with more passing ability and court vision. Has the ability to go get whatever shot he wants at anytime, even at 5'10"...Dude's really a fine passer too -- had some monster assist games to close out the season... Led his team to the NIT championship...Wish Baylor finished with a better overall record--I'm certain they would've done some real damage in the Tourney...If we can't come up with PG help elsewhere, I think this kid's real nice value with a 2nd round pick.

Reggie Bullock SG/SF, UNC - wouldn't surprise me if he went late 1st round. Real solid 3-pt shooter (43.6%) that can also put it on the deck and get to the basket. Pretty solid defensive potential out on the perimeter too.

Durand Scott PG/SG, Miami (Fl) - 6'4", ACC defensive POY (beat out teammate Shane Larkin by 2 votes) and he can score. Late bloomer that looked real confident and fluid scoring the ball this year. Nothing Earth-shattering but strength, shifty handle, foot speed, first step, and outside jumper all look above average. Solid handle and sound decision making should enable him to slide over and handle some PG duties at times...Could be a bigger, better version of Toney Douglas in the NBA.

Dwayne Davis SG, Southern Miss. - 6'5" 225, big/strong 2G that put up real efficient scoring numbers his senior year (16 ppg on 49% FGs, 41.3% on 3s, 78.7% FTs).

Potential cost-effective FA targets/SL invites

Bigs
7' C Marcus Cousin - still maintain he's the best 7 footer out there no one's ever heard of. Been saying it for a few years now. Plays hard and physical on the glass and his mid-range jumper is flat out deadly. 7', good enough athlete that can run the court, very good rebounder with an effective post up game and mid-range jumper all in one package. How this kid isn't on an NBA roster by now continues to baffle me.

6'10" PF JaJuan Johnson - very skilled inside/outside player. I thought he looked real good in Boston before they cut him loose.

6'10" PF/C Jordan Williams - very good rebounder with some nice scoring ability and soft touch in close. Thought he looked good with the Nets when they used him. Wonder why he didn't play anywhere this year. Has he kept himself in shape?

6'10" SF/PF Craig Brackins - effective inside/outside offensive player. I like this guy for the same reasons I like JaJuan Johnson & Brandon Davies -- an interior scoring presence. Poor man's (very poor) Kevin Durant?

Wings
6'5" Jermaine Taylor - real good scorer with NBA experience. Late to join the DL this year but when he got there, he ripped it up. As good a talent as Marcus Thornton?

6'7" Jamelle Horne - very good role player for Arizona going back a couple of years

6'7" Scotty Hopson

6'7" Chris Douglas-Roberts

6'4" Austin Freeman

6'7" Derrick Byars

6'5" Dominique Jones - waived by Dallas this past March. Very surprised Cuban gave up on him. He can score and is a very good passer.

6'6" Chris Johnson - not the big from LSU -- the 6'6" lefty wing from Dayton that had a cup of coffee with Memphis this year

6'5" Othyus Jeffers - loved him before he got hurt, fighting his way back now

6'6" DJ Kennedy

6'4" Travis Leslie

6'6" Lazar Hayward

6'6" Sylven Landesberg - if we can get him out of his Israeli contract

6'8" Gary Flowers - I saw a ton of him this year in the DL. Started off like gangbusters then play slipped later in the season. Still, he has the ability to impact a lot of areas -- scoring, 3-pt shooting, rebounding, blocks, steals.

6'4" Lester Hudson

PGs
6'1" Michael Loyd Jr. - I'd like to see us come up with more speed/penetration/youth at the point next year to go along with Ray Felton. Ideally when Felton sits, I'd want to maintain optimum speed/scoring ability at the point at all times. I don't want us to give the opposition a break next year. I want a relenting/attacking PG on the floor for all 48 mins. If we can't find anything else, find out where this kid is and invite him to summer league for a closer look.

6'1" Curtis Jerrells - Ditto Loyd Jr.

I don't want to hear how they couldn't find anybody to fill in with. There are good/cheap options out there.

CrushAlot wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks have been very resourceful in acquiring guys. Getting Gallo and Cope was huge. Getting Fields and Jorts in the second round were great picks but I don't think you build a championship roster with 2nd rounders. Maybe you fill out your roster. I am pretty sure the Knicks have moved a lot of their 2nd round picks in trades already.

The Spurs might disagree. They drafted Manu with the last pick in the 2nd round/draft and Tony Parker was selected 28th, which very well could be considered a 2nd round pick. The Knicks just have to be smarter with the picks they make and develop an apparatus better suited toward developing those picks.

I think the euro stash of a second round pick is a great strategy. The Knicks set themselves up for that possibility last year but later traded their pick for Camby. The Knicks don't have Robinson and Duncan like the Spurs did when they drafted Manu. They are trying to win now and don't have enough to do it. I am sure that Grunwald saw last years pick as both a developmental player or part of a trade package. However, he didn't have the luxury of waiting for three years for that guy to develop and come to the nba if they he could improve his team in the present. The Spurs are a great model for longtime relevance and winning. The Knicks are just trying to become a winning team.

Crushalot--what did that strategy yield? Trading assets for 39 years old players is not sound strategy. The Golden State warriors drafted Draymond Green last year 45 and he did a LOT MORE than Camby did for his team--AND hes going to be part of that team for 10+ years. This is a VERY old team--if we leave the cubbard dry so to speak--this could morph into a LONG LONG downwards spiral again. Thats what we did in 2000--we didnt plan well and we just fell off the map. I'm sorry but 22mm per year 5 draft picks and what looks like a first round type Euro talent for Tyson Chandler Jason Kidd and Marcus Camby isn't the best way to spend it. The result is poor--I'm sorry.

Hindsight says you are probably right but getting a guy that put up 7 and 9 last year to backup Tyson must have seemed to be a more immediate need for grunwald. With all the trading of young guys and first round picks I am surprised that you are stuck on this move. I remember last year after the draft guys making lists of players the Knicks should have taken with that pick. The Knicks previous regimes fleeced the franchise of future assets. Grunwald had to be extremely creative in how and where he finds talent that fits with the Knicks compromised situation. He is in a win now business in a win now city.

Good points but I still think we need to start develop potential rotation players/assets on the tail-end of our roster. This should've been going on for years, especially with the CBA now handicapping our ability to buy picks outright. The past is the past though, so we shouldn't cry over spilled milk.

The one beauty of Grunwald's current model though is that he has built an artificial "out" to retool/rebuild this team in the 2015 offseason. That being said, if his current model fails, he can adjust it/transform it with such free agents as Kyrie Irving, Marc Gasol, Kevin Love, Paul George, Rajon Rondo, etc. As much as 2010 has tempered my expectations for signing star players outright, I can't help but feel that the aforementioned players will be eager to change addresses given the current state of their respective franchises.