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Who deserves the playing time, Copeland or Amare?
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RonRon
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On one end, Amare was great and effective when he got back in shape, however, he has not played for 3months?
But as well as Amare had played, it takes away from Melo's minutes where he has played his best basketball of his career....
While Amare was largely effective in high FG%, it did not translate to as many W's as when he was on the bench
Is it because of his putrid DEFENSE?
It is great to be able to have a player where you can dump the ball to and depend on for a basket but this also creates less ball movement and opportunities for role players to get in rythme, while JR Smith also had to take a back seat as well...


While Copeland has played some of his best basketball at the C position and his worse in the SF, and has shown the ability to be a top scorer on the team
He did very well defending Hibbert during the late season win streak and his ability to spread the floor/facilitate/post up/penetrate off the dribble changed the dynamic of the team with ball movement/team basketball


I personally think it just isn't wise to give Amare minutes since he has not played in such a long time to get in shape...
While I think Copeland is just a much better defender during his late stretch run, the effort was there, but Woodson did not build on his confidence instead sending him back to DNP's/ 1-3 minutes a game

Amare, he is our Savior for the playoff's
Copeland, he is the stretch 4/5 that opens up the floor as Melo-lite
Both are horrible, continue to mainly play Chandler/Martin/Melo
Lower Tyson's minutes, while giving it to whoever performs in the game and matchups
Camby, hes back!
Earl Barron, he is also back!
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DurzoBlint
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5/10/2013  2:36 PM
Amare.....Cope can still sub for Melo to get Play Time just like he did during the season and he can also eat up Novaks minutes too.
the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
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technomaster
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5/10/2013  2:46 PM
Come on. Everyone's looking to get ROI on Amare as if we're the ones who are personally picking up his pay check. Amare deserves playing time based on the player he used to be when he first signed the contract with us.

The good news in all of this is that hopefully his back is as right as it has been in a year and a half. The knees continue to be a problem, but I'd imagine that he's been working behind the scenes on his Hakeem-taught post moves. I'm not looking for Amare to be a savior - but I do expect his 6'10" frame will pick up rebounds that the smaller and slighter Copeland simply wouldn't.

Looking for a put back layup or two, a mid-range jumper, a foul drawn, and maybe 3 rebounds in 10-15 minutes of play. Oh, and a blocked shot or two.

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DurzoBlint
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5/10/2013  2:52 PM
technomaster wrote:Come on. Everyone's looking to get ROI on Amare as if we're the ones who are personally picking up his pay check. Amare deserves playing time based on the player he used to be when he first signed the contract with us.

The good news in all of this is that hopefully his back is as right as it has been in a year and a half. The knees continue to be a problem, but I'd imagine that he's been working behind the scenes on his Hakeem-taught post moves. I'm not looking for Amare to be a savior - but I do expect his 6'10" frame will pick up rebounds that the smaller and slighter Copeland simply wouldn't.

Looking for a put back layup or two, a mid-range jumper, a foul drawn, and maybe 3 rebounds in 10-15 minutes of play. Oh, and a blocked shot or two.

If we are relying on Amare for rebounds, they we will be sadly dissapointed. Amare has always been very, very weak on the boards. He may pull down 10 one day and then average 2 the next ten games.

What I like is, he will block a shot or two which will also help.

Guys complaining about his defense, before this last procedure, he put in more effort than I have ever seen him expend. Not saying he was good but he was trying and wasn't a total sieve

the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
Bonn1997
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5/10/2013  3:02 PM
DurzoBlint wrote:
technomaster wrote:Come on. Everyone's looking to get ROI on Amare as if we're the ones who are personally picking up his pay check. Amare deserves playing time based on the player he used to be when he first signed the contract with us.

The good news in all of this is that hopefully his back is as right as it has been in a year and a half. The knees continue to be a problem, but I'd imagine that he's been working behind the scenes on his Hakeem-taught post moves. I'm not looking for Amare to be a savior - but I do expect his 6'10" frame will pick up rebounds that the smaller and slighter Copeland simply wouldn't.

Looking for a put back layup or two, a mid-range jumper, a foul drawn, and maybe 3 rebounds in 10-15 minutes of play. Oh, and a blocked shot or two.

If we are relying on Amare for rebounds, they we will be sadly dissapointed. Amare has always been very, very weak on the boards. He may pull down 10 one day and then average 2 the next ten games.

What I like is, he will block a shot or two which will also help.

Guys complaining about his defense, before this last procedure, he put in more effort than I have ever seen him expend. Not saying he was good but he was trying and wasn't a total sieve


If Amare is in at PF, we're a better rebounding team because Melo would either be at SF or resting.
DurzoBlint
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5/10/2013  3:15 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
DurzoBlint wrote:
technomaster wrote:Come on. Everyone's looking to get ROI on Amare as if we're the ones who are personally picking up his pay check. Amare deserves playing time based on the player he used to be when he first signed the contract with us.

The good news in all of this is that hopefully his back is as right as it has been in a year and a half. The knees continue to be a problem, but I'd imagine that he's been working behind the scenes on his Hakeem-taught post moves. I'm not looking for Amare to be a savior - but I do expect his 6'10" frame will pick up rebounds that the smaller and slighter Copeland simply wouldn't.

Looking for a put back layup or two, a mid-range jumper, a foul drawn, and maybe 3 rebounds in 10-15 minutes of play. Oh, and a blocked shot or two.

If we are relying on Amare for rebounds, they we will be sadly dissapointed. Amare has always been very, very weak on the boards. He may pull down 10 one day and then average 2 the next ten games.

What I like is, he will block a shot or two which will also help.

Guys complaining about his defense, before this last procedure, he put in more effort than I have ever seen him expend. Not saying he was good but he was trying and wasn't a total sieve


If Amare is in at PF, we're a better rebounding team because Melo would either be at SF or resting.

I'm not sure I get that. If Melo is resting and Amare is doing his 1rebound thing, how are we better?

the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
Bonn1997
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5/10/2013  3:26 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/10/2013  3:28 PM
DurzoBlint wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
DurzoBlint wrote:
technomaster wrote:Come on. Everyone's looking to get ROI on Amare as if we're the ones who are personally picking up his pay check. Amare deserves playing time based on the player he used to be when he first signed the contract with us.

The good news in all of this is that hopefully his back is as right as it has been in a year and a half. The knees continue to be a problem, but I'd imagine that he's been working behind the scenes on his Hakeem-taught post moves. I'm not looking for Amare to be a savior - but I do expect his 6'10" frame will pick up rebounds that the smaller and slighter Copeland simply wouldn't.

Looking for a put back layup or two, a mid-range jumper, a foul drawn, and maybe 3 rebounds in 10-15 minutes of play. Oh, and a blocked shot or two.

If we are relying on Amare for rebounds, they we will be sadly dissapointed. Amare has always been very, very weak on the boards. He may pull down 10 one day and then average 2 the next ten games.

What I like is, he will block a shot or two which will also help.

Guys complaining about his defense, before this last procedure, he put in more effort than I have ever seen him expend. Not saying he was good but he was trying and wasn't a total sieve


If Amare is in at PF, we're a better rebounding team because Melo would either be at SF or resting.

I'm not sure I get that. If Melo is resting and Amare is doing his 1rebound thing, how are we better?


As much as people Knock Amare, he pulls down more rbs than Melo does. Obviously no one knows what he can do in the playoffs though - we'll have to play him to find out.
yellowboy90
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5/10/2013  4:01 PM
in the regular with Amar'e in the knicks true rebounding rate went up dramatically. even when Melo was off the floor it was still increased. As of right now though Melo is attacking the boards but slide him up to the 3 and he may get more with George trying to box him out.

The dynamics are different with Martin here. Amar'e gets to play the 4 and be the weakside shot blocker. Indy does not run a ton of pnr so that's good.

hopefully, he gives you good minutes and pushes kidd minutes down.
holfresh
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5/10/2013  4:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/10/2013  4:11 PM
The player who is ready to help us most at that given time or situation...
Bonn1997
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5/10/2013  4:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/10/2013  4:55 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:in the regular with Amar'e in the knicks true rebounding rate went up dramatically. even when Melo was off the floor it was still increased. As of right now though Melo is attacking the boards but slide him up to the 3 and he may get more with George trying to box him out.

The dynamics are different with Martin here. Amar'e gets to play the 4 and be the weakside shot blocker. Indy does not run a ton of pnr so that's good.

hopefully, he gives you good minutes and pushes kidd minutes down.


That's highly unlikely. As a general rule, players get fewer boards as they move away from the basket. This year, as an SF, Melo averaged 3.8 rbs per 36 min and as a PF 6.7. The SF #s are based on about 330 total minutes only. But the point is that it fits the general trend that rebounding goes down substantially when players move from a front-court to a wing position.
technomaster
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5/10/2013  4:53 PM
Amare is a 9.1rpg/36 minutes player for his career.
He was averaging 7.7/36 this season.

Copeland's rate this year is 5rpg/36. Plus he's a smaller, lighter player, and not quite as good a leaper (compared to the Amare we saw this year).

So if rebounding is key, I think Amare's probably going to provide better rebounding minutes.
Copeland's defense has been quite porous lately - I don't think Amare's could be worse. At the very least he's taller and has longer arms - he can do a more effective Hibbert impression than Copeland.

Copeland is a better 3pt shooter and probably spreads the court more. Then again, other teams really don't pay too much attention to Copeland namely because he's played sporadically enough that there really isn't a "book" on him, thus explaining his high efficiency on offense.

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MS
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5/10/2013  6:25 PM
It's going to take him a little while to be effective. He looked very clumsy when he first came back, often getting blocked by much less athletic players.

You play next to KMart, Shimon Smith and Pablo and he will be more effective. Tyson has been mediocre at best. That's where you take a few minutes. If he doesn't have his legs you pull him and work him in practice
playa2
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5/10/2013  6:44 PM
Hard to believe Amare will do much against the big Pacer team after being off for 3 months. The speed and intensity of the game has changed so much from the regular season play.

If the knicks drive and draw Hibbert and dish to Amare for the Jam he could be used that way. I heard that ....

EARL BARON AND COPELAND WAS GIVING HIM THE BUSINESS DEFENSIVELY IN PRACTICE.

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tj23
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5/10/2013  7:06 PM
Copeland's D isn't any better than Amare's. Amare gave us good scoring. However, Amare is best at the 5 and Copeland spaces the floor. So I guess Amare if you need a primary scorer for a few minutes or Copeland if you need a role player to fill in.
IronWillGiroud
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5/10/2013  8:26 PM
I love me some Copedawg but Amar'e needs to get his 15 minutes even if it is at Cope's expense,

Amar'e, bless his soul, will never be the superstar that he once was but he can give you more value at 15 minutes a game than any other reserve in the universe,

book it, danny

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OasisBU
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5/10/2013  9:26 PM
playa2 wrote:Hard to believe Amare will do much against the big Pacer team after being off for 3 months. The speed and intensity of the game has changed so much from the regular season play.

If the knicks drive and draw Hibbert and dish to Amare for the Jam he could be used that way. I heard that ....

EARL BARON AND COPELAND WAS GIVING HIM THE BUSINESS DEFENSIVELY IN PRACTICE.

That's just shaking off some rust - he hasn't played in a while and once he gets his legs and lungs back he will be fine. It might take a few games but if it doesn't stop us from winning it will pay dividends in the ECF for sure and possible for the NBA Championship assuming this team can get past the Heat/Bulls.

I think he deserves a shot and if he is absolutely horrific then you pull him - keep the leash short. Never count Stat out though, he is determined and if his knees and back are ok I bet he can give us some really strong meaningful minutes. We could use his scoring when JR isn't doing well or both Melo and JR need a rest.

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CrushAlot
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5/10/2013  11:22 PM
OasisBU wrote:
playa2 wrote:Hard to believe Amare will do much against the big Pacer team after being off for 3 months. The speed and intensity of the game has changed so much from the regular season play.

If the knicks drive and draw Hibbert and dish to Amare for the Jam he could be used that way. I heard that ....

EARL BARON AND COPELAND WAS GIVING HIM THE BUSINESS DEFENSIVELY IN PRACTICE.

That's just shaking off some rust - he hasn't played in a while and once he gets his legs and lungs back he will be fine. It might take a few games but if it doesn't stop us from winning it will pay dividends in the ECF for sure and possible for the NBA Championship assuming this team can get past the Heat/Bulls.

I think he deserves a shot and if he is absolutely horrific then you pull him - keep the leash short. Never count Stat out though, he is determined and if his knees and back are ok I bet he can give us some really strong meaningful minutes. We could use his scoring when JR isn't doing well or both Melo and JR need a rest.

I would really like to see Woodson hold off on inserting Amare into a game until game 5 in NY. The crowd reaction alone would be a plus. Play him for a minute or two and then get him out. Similar to how MJax used Lee in the closeout game against Denver.
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Vmart
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5/11/2013  9:58 AM
What Amare will bring is going to be felt on the offense. Amare pulls Hibbert away from the basket allowing Smith and Melo easier looks near the basket for that matter the whole team. Everyone has to respect Amare' s mid range jumper.
NardDogNation
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5/11/2013  10:14 AM
Vmart wrote:What Amare will bring is going to be felt on the offense. Amare pulls Hibbert away from the basket allowing Smith and Melo easier looks near the basket for that matter the whole team. Everyone has to respect Amare' s mid range jumper.

+1. He's also a bigger body than Copeland, which means that he should also fair better in keeping Hibbert out of the paint.....theoretically.....
yellowboy90
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5/11/2013  2:35 PM
Vmart wrote:What Amare will bring is going to be felt on the offense. Amare pulls Hibbert away from the basket allowing Smith and Melo easier looks near the basket for that matter the whole team. Everyone has to respect Amare' s mid range jumper.

I doubt Amar'e will be matched up on Hibbert. Hopefully he will be paired with Martin Who will stay wide or high around 15-18 ft away to give Amar'e room down low. Amar'e did do a great job against Indy getting position the last time he played them.
VDesai
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5/12/2013  8:17 PM
Both need to play. THe multi-PG offense not doing as much as it needs to do this series. Two totally scoreless games out of Kidd and Prigioni. I'd like to see some Copeland at the 2/3- go bigger in the backcourt.
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