To hear him talk this season, Knicks coach Mike Woodson understands perfectly well the dangers of overtaxing his players.

He was quite clear about the need to limit Amar'e Stoudemire's work, to keep him fresh and healthy for the playoffs. And Woodson has said he'd try to limit Carmelo Anthony's minutes, too, to make sure Anthony can play at an elite level come playoff time.

But the Knicks had to play without Stoudemire in Monday night's dismal 92-63 loss to the Golden State Warriors, since Stoudemire broke down after more than 30 minutes in two of his final three games, and played 29 Thursday night in what was likely his final regular season game.

You might think Woodson would apply the lesson of what happened to Stoudemire to Anthony, the star he played 41 minutes per game in January, and who hasn't been the same since.

"We can’t run from the schedule," Woodson said last week. "We know it’s going to be a hectic month. Rest is more important than anything. Guys have to get their rest where they can."

But Woodson got Anthony back Monday night, and immediately pushed him.

It was immediately apparent that Anthony was playing hurt. His movements were irregular, his defensive positioning uncharacteristically poor, and his offensive game was suffering as well. He began the game 1-for-4; he also played all 12 minutes of the first quarter, and another eight minutes in the second quarter, when he also shot 1-for-4.

The Knicks trailed 50-35 at the half. Given that this was the first game of a five-game road trip, Woodson could easily have rested his injured star and simply gotten ready for the remainder of the trip. But he chose not to do that.

Instead, Anthony played another ten minutes in the third quarter, as did Tyson Chandler, the other indispensable starter for the Knicks. Golden State increased its lead to 27 midway through the quarter. Anthony, limping noticeably, and Chandler played on.

Finally, with around three minutes left in the third, and the Knicks down 74-47, Woodson appeared willing to let his stars rest at last. Out came Anthony and Chandler, apparently finished for the night.

And then, in the fourth quarter, with the Knicks down 20 points with 9:18 to go, back came Chandler and Anthony. The Knicks' own announcers puzzled over the move: Walt Frazier flat out said he wouldn't have done it, while Mike Breen surmised that Anthony couldn't be injured anymore, because otherwise what he was seeing wouldn't make any sense.

Thing is, it wouldn't have made much sense anyway, even without the knee injury. That Anthony was clearly struggling when Woodson put him in that spot just made the decision that much odder.

The Knicks fell further behind, and Woodson finally removed Anthony and Chandler with 5:25 left, down 85-61.

"It was real sore," Anthony said after the game. "I tried to get through it and figure it out. I didn’t know how it would respond. It was agitation. I felt it out there."

Woodson has recognized his problem, has copped to it, has expressed the need to adjust his coaching ... and has continued to push his aging roster to its limits and, very apparently, beyond.

Fuck it. I've had it with Woodson, we should fire him before he ruins someone's career running them into the ground. More than anyone else, he reminds me of Larry Brown when he was here and actively trying to lose games so he could make personnel decisions.

VCoug wrote:http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/sports/2013/03/8288077/mike-woodson-driving-his-knicks-past-breaking-point

To hear him talk this season, Knicks coach Mike Woodson understands perfectly well the dangers of overtaxing his players.

He was quite clear about the need to limit Amar'e Stoudemire's work, to keep him fresh and healthy for the playoffs. And Woodson has said he'd try to limit Carmelo Anthony's minutes, too, to make sure Anthony can play at an elite level come playoff time.

But the Knicks had to play without Stoudemire in Monday night's dismal 92-63 loss to the Golden State Warriors, since Stoudemire broke down after more than 30 minutes in two of his final three games, and played 29 Thursday night in what was likely his final regular season game.

You might think Woodson would apply the lesson of what happened to Stoudemire to Anthony, the star he played 41 minutes per game in January, and who hasn't been the same since.

"We can’t run from the schedule," Woodson said last week. "We know it’s going to be a hectic month. Rest is more important than anything. Guys have to get their rest where they can."

But Woodson got Anthony back Monday night, and immediately pushed him.

It was immediately apparent that Anthony was playing hurt. His movements were irregular, his defensive positioning uncharacteristically poor, and his offensive game was suffering as well. He began the game 1-for-4; he also played all 12 minutes of the first quarter, and another eight minutes in the second quarter, when he also shot 1-for-4.

The Knicks trailed 50-35 at the half. Given that this was the first game of a five-game road trip, Woodson could easily have rested his injured star and simply gotten ready for the remainder of the trip. But he chose not to do that.

Instead, Anthony played another ten minutes in the third quarter, as did Tyson Chandler, the other indispensable starter for the Knicks. Golden State increased its lead to 27 midway through the quarter. Anthony, limping noticeably, and Chandler played on.

Finally, with around three minutes left in the third, and the Knicks down 74-47, Woodson appeared willing to let his stars rest at last. Out came Anthony and Chandler, apparently finished for the night.

And then, in the fourth quarter, with the Knicks down 20 points with 9:18 to go, back came Chandler and Anthony. The Knicks' own announcers puzzled over the move: Walt Frazier flat out said he wouldn't have done it, while Mike Breen surmised that Anthony couldn't be injured anymore, because otherwise what he was seeing wouldn't make any sense.

Thing is, it wouldn't have made much sense anyway, even without the knee injury. That Anthony was clearly struggling when Woodson put him in that spot just made the decision that much odder.

The Knicks fell further behind, and Woodson finally removed Anthony and Chandler with 5:25 left, down 85-61.

"It was real sore," Anthony said after the game. "I tried to get through it and figure it out. I didn’t know how it would respond. It was agitation. I felt it out there."

Woodson has recognized his problem, has copped to it, has expressed the need to adjust his coaching ... and has continued to push his aging roster to its limits and, very apparently, beyond.

Fuck it. I've had it with Woodson, we should fire him before he ruins someone's career running them into the ground. More than anyone else, he reminds me of Larry Brown when he was here and actively trying to lose games so he could make personnel decisions.

knicks1248 wrote:He's definitely starting to get funny looks and thats from the players, media and fans..

The bar seems like it's been lowered (aleast get out of the 1st round) or maybe it's not. I personally expect nothing less then a ECF showdown with most likely the heat.

ECF without Stoudemire and Anthony?

Yes, Amar'e is done and Carmelo is in the toaster oven.

Should JR Smith be rested with his sore knees? Or is it Woodson's fault if Smith breaks down?

VCoug wrote:

misterearl wrote:Really?

knicks1248 wrote:He's definitely starting to get funny looks and thats from the players, media and fans..

The bar seems like it's been lowered (aleast get out of the 1st round) or maybe it's not. I personally expect nothing less then a ECF showdown with most likely the heat.

ECF without Stoudemire and Anthony?

Yes, Amar'e is done and Carmelo is in the toaster oven.

Should JR Smith be rested with his sore knees? Or is it Woodson's fault if Smith breaks down?

Really?

If JR asks out of a game because he knee hurts and Woodson keeps him in, like he did with Melo in the Cleveland game, then yes, it's Woodson's fault. If a coach leaves a player in during a meaningless blowout, like Woodson did the other day and MDA did with Amare when he first got here, then it's the coaches fault.

Who complained when Vince Lombardi drove the champion Green Bay Packers past the breaking point?

Vince kicked all of the players out of the training room and dared them to man up, and that was football.

Is Saint Vincent a hero?

Do you miss Antonio McDyess?

Jus' curious.

CrushAlot wrote:If your star player says that he can play and the medical staff doesn't say that he needs to sit as the coach should you bench him? Has Woodson ruined someone's career? Melo has fluid on the knee. Someone needs to tell him to get it drained so that he can get back on the court and be effective. Not sure why Woodson or the Knicks organization isn't pushing for Melo to get his knee drained. I have an issue with Melo not getting his knee drained not Woodson.

CrushAlot wrote:If your star player says that he can play and the medical staff doesn't say that he needs to sit as the coach should you bench him? Has Woodson ruined someone's career? Melo has fluid on the knee. Someone needs to tell him to get it drained so that he can get back on the court and be effective. Not sure why Woodson or the Knicks organization isn't pushing for Melo to get his knee drained. I have an issue with Melo not getting his knee drained not Woodson.

The problem with fluid in his knee is that it doesn't develop by itself but is a symptom of some other condition. In recent years Kobe and Wade have had their knees drained during the playoffs and continued playing but needed to have surgery after the season to actually fix the problem.

TeamBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:If your star player says that he can play and the medical staff doesn't say that he needs to sit as the coach should you bench him? Has Woodson ruined someone's career? Melo has fluid on the knee. Someone needs to tell him to get it drained so that he can get back on the court and be effective. Not sure why Woodson or the Knicks organization isn't pushing for Melo to get his knee drained. I have an issue with Melo not getting his knee drained not Woodson.

Crush I agree with you on a lot of things but not Woodson. Why would put Melo in the game in the 4th of that blowout loss? He wasnt playing well, was limping, and the game was well out of reach.

I couldn't stay up for the game and just skimmed the article. I see your point about Melo going back in in the fourth.

misterearl wrote:Set The Wayback Machine For March 13, 2013

Did Someone Say Larry Brown?

VCoug - Fuck it. I've had it with Woodson, we should fire him before he ruins someone's career running them into the ground. More than anyone else, he reminds me of Larry Brown when he was here and actively trying to lose games so he could make personnel decisions.

Fuck it. I've had it with Woodson

"....Yes, [the Hawks] improved and got better, but were we going to take the next step to win a title? No we weren’t. I think [the Knicks have] as legitimate a shot as anybody in the NBA to reach that goal. A lot of good things have to happen: No. 1 staying healthy and guys buying into the system. But I like the makeup of our ballclub in terms of the veterans." - Mike Woodson on Media Day.

Trust

The moment Mike Woodson lost control of the Knicks was the Utah night Kurt Thomas decided it was more important to play on a stress fracture and win, than sit out. Kurt sacrificed because he saw something, or felt like making a veteran statement.

Change

Jason Kidd slides gracefully to the second shift as I Man Shumpert gets his legs back. "I came in thinking I'd be the back-up but with the (injured) guys we had on our roster coached asked me to start. Whatever they need me to do; starting, coming off the bench…I just want to help the team.

Personal Challenge

"I’m sure (Earl Smith) heard me scream enough about mixing it up a little bit. You can’t just sit out there, miss six, seven, eight jump shots and think that’s OK."

Funny, how the old jokes have not been so frequent lately.

You sure use a lot of words to say a whole lot of nothing.

TeamBall wrote:

holfresh wrote:Come on guys..U are making the call from your collective couches..Let the professionals handle the heavy lifting..They are doing a fine job...63-32...Aren't we supposed to be about results anyway???

Im definitely happy with the record and I do give Woodson the credit he deserves. I just didnt care for his handling of Melo pre and post knee injury (and some other things that are a little off topic).

Tough call..Melo is no kid..I'm not sure how much a coach is supposed to know or do other than asked his top player if he is ready to go...Amare was complaining about him limiting his playing time before he went down and his injury occurred in his other knee...Shump is being limited to 20 mins per...I want to see him play more...Kidd is dialed back to 20mins per...So we can nit pick or give the guy props for a job well done so far...I hear all coaches across the league are great for the job they are doing..Jackson, Vogel, Thibs...Knick fans haven't seen their team play like this in over a decade...Woodson gets dissed...