I know the Magic are focused on young players, and they don't have much, but I think if they packaged Copeland and White with Camby (or maybe Novak who I would hate to lose for this team) and the rights to Ahmad Nivins, maybe the Magic bite. I don't think Camby is going to be ready, even for the playoffs when we will need him and is much more easily replaceable than Novak. Camby (who is already barely one step above a coach) can help tutor the Magic young big men of Ayon and Vucevic. Copeland has some potential as a scorer, and Brewer as filler for Reddick (fills our need for another shooter and as a starting 2 guard who can also help out at the point in a pinch) and Ish Smith (Basically include him because he has 2 years left on his contract and Brewer is a FA at the end of the year allowing the magic to save some cash).

I know I stated before I would hate seeing Shumpert have to play the 3 because to me he is a 2, but he is already playing the 3 with Kidd starting, and a lineup of

Tyson
Melo
Shumpert
Redick
Felton

Smith, Amare, Novak, Kidd

looks pretty well balanced. Camby is replaceable with guys like Amundson and KMart. Redick/Felton is kind of the 2 PG system Woodson likes to play. Redick is also a passable defender at the 2 spot.

It also seems people around the league discount Redick's value-considering he is a 15 point scorer, as I have seen rumours of trades such as Rip Hamilton, Belinelli, and a 1st or trades centered around Lance Stephenson and Hansborough in Indy.

Thoughts?

No one is going to trade us anything of value for our garbage. If we want to get a good player in a trade, like Reddick, we have to be willing to give up something that they would want and nobody wants old, crappy players sitting at the end of our bench.

VCoug wrote:I don't understand how you can say that Orlando would be better off trading Reddick to us for Copeland, White, Camby/Novak and other random garbage and then say that Rip Hamilton, Belinelli, and a 1st or Lance Stephenson, Tyler Hansbrough are way undervalued for him. Not only are those four players better than anyone we would be giving up except for Camby, who's turning 39 and been hurt all season, they're all younger except for Hamilton.

No one is going to trade us anything of value for our garbage. If we want to get a good player in a trade, like Reddick, we have to be willing to give up something that they would want and nobody wants old, crappy players sitting at the end of our bench.

Stephenson averages 8 and 4 and 3 assists. Hansburough averages 6 and 4. Let's not make it like they are world beaters. Both are signed through next season. Stephenson plays the same position as Afflalo (3 yrs 23 million left) Hansbrough plays the same position as Glen Davis. So Redick for two backups?

Rip is salary filler as a FA at he end of the year. Belinelli and Rip both average 10 points from the same position (SG) once again, Afflalo is there at a sizeable contract. Both are FA's at the end of the year. the would only be doing it for the first round pick, which may end up being the Bobcats pick (which at best is pick 13 as it is top 12 protected this year). If the Bulls actually offer this, The Magic should take it. a top 13 pick for Redick is overpaying, IMO.

I already stated the reasons for Camby. It is not in a player capacity. Copeland plays the SF spot and has potential as a scorer (a possible open spot for Orlando. Moe Harckless currently plays there). Ahmad Nivins is in Europe averaging 16 and 8 and is 26. The Magic love using overseas and he is basically a free player. Brewer gets them out of Ish Smith's contract for next year.

joec32033 wrote:

VCoug wrote:I don't understand how you can say that Orlando would be better off trading Reddick to us for Copeland, White, Camby/Novak and other random garbage and then say that Rip Hamilton, Belinelli, and a 1st or Lance Stephenson, Tyler Hansbrough are way undervalued for him. Not only are those four players better than anyone we would be giving up except for Camby, who's turning 39 and been hurt all season, they're all younger except for Hamilton.

No one is going to trade us anything of value for our garbage. If we want to get a good player in a trade, like Reddick, we have to be willing to give up something that they would want and nobody wants old, crappy players sitting at the end of our bench.

Stephenson averages 8 and 4 and 3 assists. Hansburough averages 6 and 4. Let's not make it like they are world beaters. Both are signed through next season. Stephenson plays the same position as Afflalo (3 yrs 23 million left) Hansbrough plays the same position as Glen Davis. So Redick for two backups?

Rip is salary filler as a FA at he end of the year. Belinelli and Rip both average 10 points from the same position (SG) once again, Afflalo is there at a sizeable contract. Both are FA's at the end of the year. the would only be doing it for the first round pick, which may end up being the Bobcats pick (which at best is pick 13 as it is top 12 protected this year). If the Bulls actually offer this, The Magic should take it. a top 13 pick for Redick is overpaying, IMO.

I already stated the reasons for Camby. It is not in a player capacity. Copeland plays the SF spot and has potential as a scorer (a possible open spot for Orlando. Moe Harckless currently plays there). Ahmad Nivins is in Europe averaging 16 and 8 and is 26. The Magic love using overseas and he is basically a free player. Brewer gets them out of Ish Smith's contract for next year.

Those guys are all getting regular minutes on good teams, ergo, they are better than the bench warmers you're talking about for the Knicks. Other Knicks fans can talk about Copeland channeling Bernard King all they want, his value around the league is 0. He's a crappy player who can't get any burn for a team that could really use some depth and he has literally no upside. Ditto James White. Marcus Camby's "veteran leadership" is not a good enough reason for Orlando to part with a good, young player on an expiring deal.

VCoug wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

VCoug wrote:I don't understand how you can say that Orlando would be better off trading Reddick to us for Copeland, White, Camby/Novak and other random garbage and then say that Rip Hamilton, Belinelli, and a 1st or Lance Stephenson, Tyler Hansbrough are way undervalued for him. Not only are those four players better than anyone we would be giving up except for Camby, who's turning 39 and been hurt all season, they're all younger except for Hamilton.

No one is going to trade us anything of value for our garbage. If we want to get a good player in a trade, like Reddick, we have to be willing to give up something that they would want and nobody wants old, crappy players sitting at the end of our bench.

Stephenson averages 8 and 4 and 3 assists. Hansburough averages 6 and 4. Let's not make it like they are world beaters. Both are signed through next season. Stephenson plays the same position as Afflalo (3 yrs 23 million left) Hansbrough plays the same position as Glen Davis. So Redick for two backups?

Rip is salary filler as a FA at he end of the year. Belinelli and Rip both average 10 points from the same position (SG) once again, Afflalo is there at a sizeable contract. Both are FA's at the end of the year. the would only be doing it for the first round pick, which may end up being the Bobcats pick (which at best is pick 13 as it is top 12 protected this year). If the Bulls actually offer this, The Magic should take it. a top 13 pick for Redick is overpaying, IMO.

I already stated the reasons for Camby. It is not in a player capacity. Copeland plays the SF spot and has potential as a scorer (a possible open spot for Orlando. Moe Harckless currently plays there). Ahmad Nivins is in Europe averaging 16 and 8 and is 26. The Magic love using overseas and he is basically a free player. Brewer gets them out of Ish Smith's contract for next year.

Those guys are all getting regular minutes on good teams, ergo, they are better than the bench warmers you're talking about for the Knicks. Other Knicks fans can talk about Copeland channeling Bernard King all they want, his value around the league is 0. He's a crappy player who can't get any burn for a team that could really use some depth and he has literally no upside. Ditto James White. Marcus Camby's "veteran leadership" is not a good enough reason for Orlando to part with a good, young player on an expiring deal.

What makes Belinelli a better fit? He can't beat out Rip and BOTH are FA's at the end of the season. They mind as well keep Redick. The 13 pick for him is overpaying and Orlando should take that deal if offered.

Lance gets 30 minutes and averages 8 and 4 and 3, and plays the position of a guy they have a long term commitment to. Hansbrough is like them trading for Nick Collison or Jared Jefferies. He will be behind Glen Davis.

I don't think Copeland is great. But when he started he did well. Apparently, he has no motivation to play defense which is keeping him off the court here. Maybe Orlando doesn't have that requirement for him to get on the court.

I think it is more about keeping to a long term plan with Orlando. I did my research before posting reading different articles/rumours about his trade value because I was unsure of his value. Seems some teams don't think he will be the same player on a different team.

VCoug wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

VCoug wrote:I don't understand how you can say that Orlando would be better off trading Reddick to us for Copeland, White, Camby/Novak and other random garbage and then say that Rip Hamilton, Belinelli, and a 1st or Lance Stephenson, Tyler Hansbrough are way undervalued for him. Not only are those four players better than anyone we would be giving up except for Camby, who's turning 39 and been hurt all season, they're all younger except for Hamilton.

No one is going to trade us anything of value for our garbage. If we want to get a good player in a trade, like Reddick, we have to be willing to give up something that they would want and nobody wants old, crappy players sitting at the end of our bench.

Stephenson averages 8 and 4 and 3 assists. Hansburough averages 6 and 4. Let's not make it like they are world beaters. Both are signed through next season. Stephenson plays the same position as Afflalo (3 yrs 23 million left) Hansbrough plays the same position as Glen Davis. So Redick for two backups?

Rip is salary filler as a FA at he end of the year. Belinelli and Rip both average 10 points from the same position (SG) once again, Afflalo is there at a sizeable contract. Both are FA's at the end of the year. the would only be doing it for the first round pick, which may end up being the Bobcats pick (which at best is pick 13 as it is top 12 protected this year). If the Bulls actually offer this, The Magic should take it. a top 13 pick for Redick is overpaying, IMO.

I already stated the reasons for Camby. It is not in a player capacity. Copeland plays the SF spot and has potential as a scorer (a possible open spot for Orlando. Moe Harckless currently plays there). Ahmad Nivins is in Europe averaging 16 and 8 and is 26. The Magic love using overseas and he is basically a free player. Brewer gets them out of Ish Smith's contract for next year.

Those guys are all getting regular minutes on good teams, ergo, they are better than the bench warmers you're talking about for the Knicks. Other Knicks fans can talk about Copeland channeling Bernard King all they want, his value around the league is 0. He's a crappy player who can't get any burn for a team that could really use some depth and he has literally no upside. Ditto James White. Marcus Camby's "veteran leadership" is not a good enough reason for Orlando to part with a good, young player on an expiring deal.

What makes Belinelli a better fit? He can't beat out Rip and BOTH are FA's at the end of the season. They mind as well keep Redick. The 13 pick for him is overpaying and Orlando should take that deal if offered.

Lance gets 30 minutes and averages 8 and 4 and 3, and plays the position of a guy they have a long term commitment to. Hansbrough is like them trading for Nick Collison or Jared Jefferies. He will be behind Glen Davis.

I don't think Copeland is great. But when he started he did well. Apparently, he has no motivation to play defense which is keeping him off the court here. Maybe Orlando doesn't have that requirement for him to get on the court.

I think it is more about keeping to a long term plan with Orlando. I did my research before posting reading different articles/rumours about his trade value because I was unsure of his value. Seems some teams don't think he will be the same player on a different team.

If it's dumb for Orlando to trade for Belinelli and Hamilton because they'll be free agents after this season why would it be smart for them to trade for Copeland and White who'll be free agents after this season?

I went by RealGM tradechecker, who has them signed through next season. Hoopshype says they are free. In which case you would be correct, there isn't a difference.

dk7th wrote:it doesn't matter who the knicks try to acquire at this juncture because the core problems of this team will remain.

talk of a trade distracts from deeper issues the team has had all season with the exception of the first 9 games.

I think the Knicks need to do something. I don't think this team is championship. The game against the Clippers proved it to me. Novak being rendered that useless hurt. They need a smart SF/SG who can shoot and at least be a passable defender. They need to cut Kidd's minutes. They need to sure up the starting 5. If Novak can't adjust to not being totally useless when an athletic defender stays at home on him and doesn't defend the other way, he is Brad Lohaus 2.0 and is more of a specialist than a rotation player.

dk7th wrote:it doesn't matter who the knicks try to acquire at this juncture because the core problems of this team will remain.

talk of a trade distracts from deeper issues the team has had all season with the exception of the first 9 games.

So are you going to stop following the team? No point in you watching the games really if we've been terrible all season (apart from those sacred 9 first games), and have no hope of correcting those issues no matter what we do.

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

dk7th wrote:it doesn't matter who the knicks try to acquire at this juncture because the core problems of this team will remain.

talk of a trade distracts from deeper issues the team has had all season with the exception of the first 9 games.

So are you going to stop following the team? No point in you watching the games really if we've been terrible all season (apart from those sacred 9 first games), and have no hope of correcting those issues no matter what we do.

no i am going to continue to watch the team with the hope if not expectation that the core problems with the team will be addressed. any dyed-in-the-wool fan can see the team has problems. but there is no use hiding your head in the sand talking about trades. our success is on the coach and the core players, not some sideways trade involving role players.

Well, good- it would be nice to hear about some of your hopes for the team, once in a while. We've got some issues, I agree, and I'm not sure whether we need to slightly tinker with the roster, or whether we just have to start playing better. Main questions for me before the trade deadline are:

Can we afford to stick with Camby and Sheed the rest of the way, hoping they're okay by the playoffs? If not we need to move/cut a player to sign Louis Amundson or K-Mart

Is Brewer mentally destroyed for the rest of the season. We've seen playing in NY do this to players before. He was a really important part of what we did at the start of the season. Then he became Toney Douglas II. Either work him back into being a contributor or get rid of him.

Do we need another PG? And if so do we trade for a semi decent one or aim for a cheap Sebastian Telfair level player?

Do we need a serious upgrade that will require sending out Shumpert? (I say no)