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NYKMentality
Posts: 23995 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 11/12/2012 Member: #4385 |
2/9/2013 2:29 AM
If we were to give up a 22 years of age Shumpert for a 27 year old Jared Dudley? I would flip my mind as a Knicks fan. Shumpert has the potential to develop into something very special being surrounded by veterans such as Felton, Melo, Stoudemire, Chandler and even J.R Smith moving forward. Trade away Shumpert before giving him a true chance to regain his form and/or fully recover from injury? And it's a huge Knicks mistake.
Copeland. White. Brewer. Pablo. But not Iman Shumpert. No way. Not for this guy. I want a potential star if we're moving Shumpert and Dudley is no star. |
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gunsnewing
Posts: 55076 Alba Posts: 5 Joined: 2/24/2002 Member: #215 USA |
2/9/2013 2:31 AM LAST EDITED: 2/9/2013 2:34 AM
Agreed but this is the Knicks we're talking about
Gotta admit it will be funny to see fans kick dirt at another former Knick once he's out the door |
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NYKMentality
Posts: 23995 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 11/12/2012 Member: #4385 |
2/9/2013 2:37 AM
gunsnewing wrote:Agreed but this is the Knicks we're talking about I would kick dirt at Shump for Dudley because we're not getting a true NBA star in return when in all reality? Shumpert stood out as one of the greatest perimeter defenders during only his rookie season. Once recovered from injury he could become our Bruce Bower? Ron Artest and/or Shane Battier type of perimeter defender? I love his defensive potential and on offense? His potential may not be elite greatness such as his defensive potential when at full strength, but his offensive ability can develop into a very productive player. |
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yellowboy90
Posts: 33942 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 4/23/2011 Member: #3538 |
2/9/2013 3:16 AM
He is a guy I had my eye on. It was him, G. Henderson, M. Webster, or M. Dunleavy. I like Dudley because he can shoot and defend.
Send them Novak, Cope, Brewer, Euro rights, and a future 2nd. There is no need to give them Shump. |
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gunsnewing
Posts: 55076 Alba Posts: 5 Joined: 2/24/2002 Member: #215 USA |
2/9/2013 3:20 AM
Don't think thats enough and Novak has 3 yrs left on his deal
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yellowboy90
Posts: 33942 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 4/23/2011 Member: #3538 |
2/9/2013 3:43 AM
gunsnewing wrote:Don't think thats enough and Novak has 3 yrs left on his deal It gives them an elite shooter and a pick plus the Euro. I also was thinking they could send Novak and the bench minus STat and JR then take back Beasley contract but that means Prigs or Wallace leaving and that won't happen. or they can take Shannon Brown's contract and give up the bench minus Prigs and Wallace + Euro and a future. Since the team only pays half of the vet min when they cut everyone they free up money. |
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NYKMentality
Posts: 23995 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 11/12/2012 Member: #4385 |
2/9/2013 3:58 AM
No way am I even willing to give up Steve Novak. Come postseason play, this man can become down right deadly being surrounded by the likes of Felton, J.R, Melo, Stoudemire and Chandler. Which wasn't the case last season where Miami could focus on Novak due to lack of overall ability/talent. Novak has came out of nowhere and emerged into one of the greatest pure shooting three point shooters in the game today. Led the entire league in 3PT shooting percentage last season and also ranks top 5 (4th) only behind the likes of Martin, Curry and Kover and ahead of Ray Allen, Durant, Mike Dunleavy etc, etc.
His three point shooting percentage as of right now? .441%. Reggie Miller was a career .395 shooter from beyond the arc while Bird had a career three point shooting percentage of .376. Not comparing Novak as an overall player to all-time greats but when in regards to shooting? He's as great as they come as a pure shooter. Can change the momentum of a ball game in an instant coming off the bench. .472 and .441 over the past two seasons? It's no longer a fluke, Novak is a special shooter and come postseason play, when opposing defenses are focused on the likes of Felton, J.R Smith (who LOVES Novak), Melo, Stoudemire etc, etc... Novak can get wet and bury teams with his shooting. Novak is 7th on our team in minutes per game behind Melo, Felton, J.R, Tyson, Kidd and Amar'e. He's more important to our success than people give him credit for. Just having Novak roam the perimeter looking to get off, opens up the entire floor for Melo and Amar'e. Defenses will not leave Novak open. Which opens up our offense for our stars and/or PG's. His defense and rebounding is an issue, but come postseason play? I can't wait for M.S.G to explode as Novak drains momentum changing money balls. It's just a hunch, but I believe Novak emerges come postseason play here in 2012-2013. I'm not willing to trade one of the NBA's greatest pure shooters. |
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yellowboy90
Posts: 33942 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 4/23/2011 Member: #3538 |
2/9/2013 4:42 AM
NYKMentality wrote:No way am I even willing to give up Steve Novak. Come postseason play, this man can become down right deadly being surrounded by the likes of Felton, J.R, Melo, Stoudemire and Chandler. Which wasn't the case last season where Miami could focus on Novak due to lack of overall ability/talent. Novak has came out of nowhere and emerged into one of the greatest pure shooting three point shooters in the game today. Led the entire league in 3PT shooting percentage last season and also ranks top 5 (4th) only behind the likes of Martin, Curry and Kover and ahead of Ray Allen, Durant, Mike Dunleavy etc, etc. Novak is great and creates problems but he also hurts offenses with only being able to catch and shoot or take two dribbles and shoot. Dudley can actually run of screens, go back door, take players off the dribble and shoot near 40% from 3. On top of that he can defend and is a bigger wing player that can play the 2/3 which helps in Woodson switching scheme. The same thought for Novak being surrounded by great players put Dudley in the same situation and his percentage might be higher. Besides Kidd and Smith players playing with Felton shoot better. WIth Tyson its minimal but it is still higher. SO maybe Dudley can be even better and he is already good. The best case scenario is that the Suns take Thomas, WHite, Brewer, Cope, Euro rights and a future so that we keep Novak and Shump but they cut cost with those expiring contracts and get two potential prospects. Basically, the Knicks need a gift like Clevland just got or L.A. got with Gasol and Detroit got with Wallace(on a lesser scale of course. Dudley does not compare with Gasol and Walllace). |
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Anji
Posts: 25523 Alba Posts: 9 Joined: 4/14/2006 Member: #1122 USA |
2/9/2013 5:47 AM
I think Shumpert is over rated, but I wouldn't trade him for Dudley. Novak would be a no brainier though.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
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Bonn1997
Posts: 58654 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 2/2/2004 Member: #581 USA |
2/9/2013 5:54 AM
This would be another example of either a huge coincidence or Grunwald utilizing the sabermetrics. Dudley looks a thousand times better in them than Shumpert does (mostly because of the difference in offense). If you're into the +/- stat, he's + 11.5 too (and Shumpert's never been in positive territory in his career).
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VCoug
Posts: 24935 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 3/28/2007 Member: #1406 |
2/9/2013 8:16 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:He is a guy I had my eye on. It was him, G. Henderson, M. Webster, or M. Dunleavy. I like Dudley because he can shoot and defend. You keep on saying "Euro rights". Are you talking about the Greek kid we drafted, Papanikoloau? Because we traded him for Felton. Now the joy of my world is in Zion
How beautiful if nothing more
Than to wait at Zion's door
I've never been in love like this before
Now let me pray to keep you from
The perils that will surely come
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joec32033
Posts: 30612 Alba Posts: 37 Joined: 2/3/2004 Member: #583 USA |
2/9/2013 8:53 AM
Good player. Good defender. He would slide right in at the starting SF spot. Problem is, you are talking either Camby OR Novak, or a combo of White, Copeland, Thomas, and Brewer.
~You can't run from who you are.~
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BRIGGS
Posts: 53275 Alba Posts: 7 Joined: 7/30/2002 Member: #303 |
2/9/2013 8:55 AM
I'd give up shumpert in 2 seconds for Dudley. U have 2n kidding any other way
RIP Crushalot😞
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Bonn1997
Posts: 58654 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 2/2/2004 Member: #581 USA |
2/9/2013 8:59 AM LAST EDITED: 2/9/2013 8:59 AM
BRIGGS wrote:I'd give up shumpert in 2 seconds for Dudley. U have 2n kidding any other way Exactly. Either we're all in for this year or going to rebuild. And based on the composition of the roster, all in right now would make more sense. |
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joec32033
Posts: 30612 Alba Posts: 37 Joined: 2/3/2004 Member: #583 USA |
2/9/2013 9:04 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:I'd give up shumpert in 2 seconds for Dudley. U have 2n kidding any other way Guys, when did Dudley become a world beater? He is a very good role playing SF. Shumpert is a good role playing SG right now. You get rid of Shump and we are right back to giving Kidd major minutes and having to play Brewer. With me, trading Shumpert has less to do with Shumpert and more to do with how losing him affects the team. ~You can't run from who you are.~
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knickscity
Posts: 24533 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 6/2/2012 Member: #4241 USA |
2/9/2013 9:05 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:I'd give up shumpert in 2 seconds for Dudley. U have 2n kidding any other way All in equals a trade for Dudley? I grant he's have a good season, but he is not a game changer. |
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AnubisADL
Posts: 27382 Alba Posts: 13 Joined: 6/29/2009 Member: #2771 USA |
2/9/2013 9:07 AM LAST EDITED: 2/9/2013 9:10 AM
Deal likely means bye bye Novak.
Novak has fallen off since his contact year. NY Knicks - Retirement home for players and GMs
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BRIGGS
Posts: 53275 Alba Posts: 7 Joined: 7/30/2002 Member: #303 |
2/9/2013 9:08 AM
knickscity wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:I'd give up shumpert in 2 seconds for Dudley. U have 2n kidding any other way Doesn't need to b a superstar. But he would improve the team as is RIP Crushalot😞
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Nalod
Posts: 71286 Alba Posts: 155 Joined: 12/24/2003 Member: #508 USA |
2/9/2013 9:09 AM
Dudley is only 27? damn, thats still young!
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