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A much older dead horse: Good ol' David Lee
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GodSaveTheKnicks
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11/29/2012  5:02 PM
So I moved to SF and this is why I had this random ass thought:

Considering both are defensive sieves and with good ol' 20/20 hindsight would we have been better off paying David Lee?

Did Melo really come here because he wanted to play with Amare or because he wanted to be in NYC period.

Didn't really expect much from Lee when he was here which is why I loved the guy but him and Amare are both very highly paid PFs that regularly get roasted for their poor D.

If Amare's knees are shot then the answer is obvious but if Amare comes back not completely terrible it's a fun question to ponder.

Lee definitely has a better handle and is a better passer. I've never really watched him to see exactly how awful he is on D though.

Discuss.

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
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Rookie
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11/29/2012  5:16 PM
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
Lee definitely has a better handle and is a better passer. I've never really watched him to see exactly how awful he is on D though.

Discuss.

much as I like D Lee, he drove me nuts with his Defense and I'm glsd we didn't resign him. Pretty sure we had to know at the time that Sts uninsured contract and knees was a huge risk...a risk that is still very real, but Lee was never the answer here either. Even more frustrating is at the time, we didn't even know that a new CBA would give us an amnesty clause which could have really saved us...except, well you know...either, I'm glad to have Chandler here. he really started to chang the defensive culture of this team under MDA. Either way, it's all water under the bridge. Ideally, if I had a time machine and could go back and fix things, I would have found a way to draft Love in 08' :)
Sangfroid
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11/29/2012  5:22 PM
Amar'e has alwalys had an aura of toughness that David Lee will never have. True, he was a hard worker, and he does have some ability. But if you had to go to war, Amar'e would be your choice, hands down.
"We are playing a game. We are playing at not playing a game..."
Killa4luv
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11/29/2012  5:26 PM
Sangfroid wrote:Amar'e has alwalys had an aura of toughness that David Lee will never have. True, he was a hard worker, and he does have some ability. But if you had to go to war, Amar'e would be your choice, hands down.

Amare is a much better scorer, was a dominant player for most of his career. Lee was and will never be that. He's a nice role player to have on a stacked team, but to be a PF and poor at defense, isn't what we need. I'd rather a non-scoring bo OUtlaw type who d's up and rebounds, than a cat like Lee who rebounds well, has a little offensive game, but doesn't d up and cant help guard the rim.
fishmike
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11/29/2012  5:35 PM
Lee would be an awesome big off the bench. Play some PF/C give you about 30 minutes a night you get 15/10 and 50% plus. Defense is terrible but you can pair him with a role player there like Chandler, Sheed, etc

He was too much money for what Knicks needed. Liked having him though

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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11/29/2012  5:40 PM
"for the money".....Dlee was a good value.

HOw is his defense now he is not playing center? The kid was asked to play center and was a double double machine. If he played "tough D", against bigger players he'd fouled out. Then what? Play JJ? MDA wanted his energy to go to scoring points and rebounds.

Of course a healthy amare is a better player but DLee would have cost less. Dlee next to Tyson would be awsome and we would have had extra money for another player?

If amare can return and integrate into the Woody era with Melo the yeah, thats a great blueprint.

Even better, could one have had:

Tyson
Dlee
Gallo
CP3/or Deron (via free agency)
Joe Johnson

WTF, lets go all the way! Discuss?

I dont' know if the math works on this BTW, im being conceptual. Naturally, thats all we can do here!
tkf
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11/29/2012  6:58 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/29/2012  6:59 PM
Nalod wrote:"for the money".....Dlee was a good value.

HOw is his defense now he is not playing center? The kid was asked to play center and was a double double machine. If he played "tough D", against bigger players he'd fouled out. Then what? Play JJ? MDA wanted his energy to go to scoring points and rebounds.

Of course a healthy amare is a better player but DLee would have cost less. Dlee next to Tyson would be awsome and we would have had extra money for another player?

If amare can return and integrate into the Woody era with Melo the yeah, thats a great blueprint.

Even better, could one have had:

Tyson
Dlee
Gallo
CP3/or Deron (via free agency)
Joe Johnson

WTF, lets go all the way! Discuss?

I dont' know if the math works on this BTW, im being conceptual. Naturally, thats all we can do here!

not a fan of joe's contract,but I would have rolled with that team... our cap would have been blown to hell...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Killa4luv
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11/29/2012  9:05 PM
Nalod wrote:"for the money".....Dlee was a good value.

HOw is his defense now he is not playing center? The kid was asked to play center and was a double double machine. If he played "tough D", against bigger players he'd fouled out. Then what? Play JJ? MDA wanted his energy to go to scoring points and rebounds.

Of course a healthy amare is a better player but DLee would have cost less. Dlee next to Tyson would be awsome and we would have had extra money for another player?

If amare can return and integrate into the Woody era with Melo the yeah, thats a great blueprint.

Even better, could one have had:

Tyson
Dlee
Gallo
CP3/or Deron (via free agency)
Joe Johnson

WTF, lets go all the way! Discuss?

I dont' know if the math works on this BTW, im being conceptual. Naturally, thats all we can do here!

Let's be real and stop the excuses, the guy was a horrible defender and it didn't matter where he played. And he was not worth all of that money he got either.
GodSaveTheKnicks
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11/29/2012  9:09 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/29/2012  9:10 PM
Killa4luv wrote:
Sangfroid wrote:Amar'e has alwalys had an aura of toughness that David Lee will never have. True, he was a hard worker, and he does have some ability. But if you had to go to war, Amar'e would be your choice, hands down.

Amare is a much better scorer, was a dominant player for most of his career. Lee was and will never be that. He's a nice role player to have on a stacked team, but to be a PF and poor at defense, isn't what we need. I'd rather a non-scoring bo OUtlaw type who d's up and rebounds, than a cat like Lee who rebounds well, has a little offensive game, but doesn't d up and cant help guard the rim.

Amare doesn't d up or really guard the rim. He also played with Steve Nash under MDA for a good part of his career next to Shawn Marion an even then his D looked terrible.

STAT looked like Super Man his first season with the Knicks but I'm just afraid he'll never be the same player again. If he's just a shell of his former self would we have been better off with 75-82 games a season from DLee?

Hopefully STAT comes back with a ridiculous post game and reinvents himself like Grandmama did after the back injury.

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
GodSaveTheKnicks
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11/30/2012  12:09 AM
watching Lee against Denver he is awful on defense
Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
BRIGGS
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11/30/2012  12:49 AM
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:watching Lee against Denver he is awful on defense

That whole team is awful on defense. There are different trains of thought.

Having David Lee on this team would be incredible as this team relies on team D and hes the rebounder we need on top of which D Lee is a great passer and can easily give you 15-17 point shooting 50%.

RIP Crushalot😞
3G4G
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11/30/2012  1:00 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/30/2012  1:02 AM
Lee has been better than Amar'e since his departure...If you judge everything based on consistency/productivity.
BRIGGS
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11/30/2012  1:03 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/30/2012  1:05 AM
3G4G wrote:Lee has been better than Amar'e since his departure...If you judge every base on consistency/productivity.

When someone says Lee plays bad defense lets take into account--for instance last year--the counter PF would have to top 20 points @ 50% per 37 minutes on an individual basis to start even talking about how bad Lee is. Since there are few in the league who can do that--it makes little sense. Dave is a great player on a bad team--he is an all star caliber guy.

By the way this might be the best individual performance I have seen in the NBA this year tonight. The guy has close to a triple double and has missed only 1 shot.

RIP Crushalot😞
JamesKPolk
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11/30/2012  1:10 AM
Lee is still a disgraceful defender. Even worse than Amare.

No thanks.

"Peace, plenty, and contentment reign throughout our borders, and our beloved country presents a sublime moral spectacle to the world." - James K Polk
BRIGGS
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11/30/2012  1:18 AM
Whew what a loss unreal sometimes in sports!
RIP Crushalot😞
mrKnickShot
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11/30/2012  1:33 AM
kicked ass tonight!
skeng
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Denmark
11/30/2012  5:52 AM
D Lee's repertoire on offense is larger than STAT's imo. He's also a much better rebounder. He has very good decision making, can play a sort of point PF. Finishes tremendously with both hands - which continues to amaze me.

Besides inability to defend, STAT's defense hints at futility and a lack of understanding basketball at times, while with Lee I feel like it's only a matter of him not having the ability.

Biggest difference between the two was/is STAT's athleticism, which is arguably a wash these days.

Lastly, what a great game Lee had tonight. And what a stat line!

Legalize di NBA
Killa4luv
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11/30/2012  6:12 AM
U guys r unbelievable. Dlee is making similar money to Kevin love. He's paid like a top player and he is not that. He makes more than tyson chandler.
skeng
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Denmark
11/30/2012  6:21 AM
Killa4luv wrote:U guys r unbelievable. Dlee is making similar money to Kevin love. He's paid like a top player and he is not that. He makes more than tyson chandler.

I'm talking pure basketball. Sorry I didnt make myself clear on that. We can agree that both players have outrageous contracts and in most cases aren't desirable to most teams for that exact reason.

Legalize di NBA
jrodmc
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11/30/2012  10:08 AM
Wow. Talk about your fables. I know it's been some years now, but please clean off the rear view guys.

"DLee could have led the league in blocks, but Pringles told him running completely out of the lane on D expends less energy"

"I remember how much DLee reminded me of Mutumbo during his prime..."

"I still get misty remembering how DLee would miss three open layups on purpose channeling George McGinnis"

"Yeah, we were getting blown out regularly by 30 or so points, but hey, DLee was a sure fire double-double. Now that's REAL basketball!"

"Great draft pick! IT come back! All is forgiven!"

"DLee was the older brother Gallo never had. I still remember the clip where he takes Rooster aside and says: 'Remember Danny, when someone's going to dunk, get the hell out of camera range! Turning your back still leaves your number in the highlight reels.'"
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A much older dead horse: Good ol' David Lee
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