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A couple of years down the road
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Knixkik
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10/19/2012  2:54 PM
What does this team do in terms of rebuilding/retooling? I believe this team as currently constructed will figure out how to be a nice playoff team that makes it far, but it would take a lot of luck to win it all. If it is clear in a couple years this team has hit its max and will only decline, what do you believe the approach will be?

Does this team retool between summer 2013 and the following trade deadline and trade players on expiring contracts (Stoudemire, Kidd, Camby, etc), or do they let all of them expire and make a run at a major FA in 2014? Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving, Rajon Rondo, and Rudy Gay are among potential FAs at that point. The team will only have a resigned Anthony (assuming they resign him right away, he will only be 31), Felton (if he doesn't opt out), Novak, Shumpert, and a couple of players on rookie deals. Should be a manageable situation where the team can clear enough room for a big time FA. A team built around Melo, Love, Chandler (on a smaller deal) and Shumpert could be a nice way to retool. What do you think?

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holfresh
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10/19/2012  3:02 PM
All depends on the level success of this current squad and what management deem to be their shortfall...How far was the run..Who is a keeper, etc..really too soon to say...Might want to just scrap the plan and rebuild the only way we know how, starphuck...Too many variables to say right now...Meanwhile, hit the open man...
ChuckBuck
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10/19/2012  3:41 PM
Kyrie! Kyrie and Shumpert would be a sick backcourt.
Knixkik
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10/19/2012  3:55 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:Kyrie! Kyrie and Shumpert would be a sick backcourt.

Yes it would be unreal. Both Irving and Love would fit in here great with Melo and Shumpert in 3 years.

gunsnewing
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10/19/2012  3:57 PM
Kyrie is the guy I've been targeting once they let Lin walk. Would love to see him in New York one day. Preferably before microfracture surgery
VCoug
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10/19/2012  5:48 PM
I don't think either of those options will be taken. There's no way Dolan will agree to blow everything up after this season so at best (worst?) we're looking at starting over in the Summer of 2015. Right now we have $12M in salary for Felton, Shumpert, and Novak assuming that all their options are picked up and I see no reason to believe that won't be the case. JR Smith signed a sweetheart deal with us this offseason with a player option for next season; he will likely opt out with the understanding that we'll use his Early Bird rights to resign him at around $5M/year, which will bring us to $17M in salary. Based on the current salary cap that leaves us with $41M in space.

Now, if we want to resign any of our big three that automatically reduces our cap space since their Bird rights will create a cap hold; the only way to regain that space is to sign them to contracts less than their cap hold (I find this extremely unlikely) or to waive their Bird rights which would mean we can't go over the cap to resign them. Assuming that Melo and Tyson continue their same standard of play their holds should be around $24M and $15M. As for Amare, if he's able to return to the player he was in Phoenix and his first half season here his hold should be around $24M also; if he plays more like he did last season I'm not sure what the NBA would set his hold at. If we want to bring back all three we'd have no space; if we'd want to bring back Tyson and Melo or Amare we'd have around $2M in space; if we want to bring back Melo or Amare we'd have $17M; and if we want to bring back just Tyson we'd have around $26M. Again, these number are based on the current salary cap.

Based off of this list http://www.hoopsworld.com/2015-nba-free-agents/ I think our best option would be to go after Rondo and Aldridge and try to resign Tyson to a team-friendly deal. Or, we could resign either Melo or Amare whoever is better (probably Melo), go after Rondo, and hope there's enough left over to go after a big man like Amir Johnson. A few other things. Kyrie Irving will be a restricted free agent and I doubt there's any contract that Cleveland wouldn't match. Shumpert will also be a restricted free agent so we'll have to see what sort of contract offers he'll be getting. Kevin Love has a player option he could exercise that Summer but, I remember reading that the new CBA made it so players make more money if they don't opt out of their contract.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
3G4G
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10/19/2012  5:56 PM
Kyrie is not coming here just like Lebron didn't come here nor is CP3.

Kevin could leave Minny but I doubt it.

It's going to be a nightmare rebuilding and we have to hope we put together a Motley Crue of somewhat decent players to stay above water until we get back to Lotto Worthy contention.

tj23
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10/19/2012  7:48 PM
Not really the "future" but I think CP3 is committed to the Clips. I can only hope we could somehow land him.
arkrud
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10/19/2012  10:27 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/19/2012  10:28 PM
The best scenario for as is if the teams blows badly this year.
Then we can do some crazy trades and end up with any kind of stuff.
This will be the only interesting scenario.
But most likely this group will be a bit above mediocre for 3-4 years and then we will need another starpunching spree.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
CrushAlot
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10/19/2012  10:33 PM
I am pretty sure the Knicks can get out of year 3 of csmby's contract and avoid the cap hit if they want/need to. Year 3 was added just so the deal could be a sign and trade.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Knixkik
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10/19/2012  11:43 PM
VCoug wrote:I don't think either of those options will be taken. There's no way Dolan will agree to blow everything up after this season so at best (worst?) we're looking at starting over in the Summer of 2015. Right now we have $12M in salary for Felton, Shumpert, and Novak assuming that all their options are picked up and I see no reason to believe that won't be the case. JR Smith signed a sweetheart deal with us this offseason with a player option for next season; he will likely opt out with the understanding that we'll use his Early Bird rights to resign him at around $5M/year, which will bring us to $17M in salary. Based on the current salary cap that leaves us with $41M in space.

Now, if we want to resign any of our big three that automatically reduces our cap space since their Bird rights will create a cap hold; the only way to regain that space is to sign them to contracts less than their cap hold (I find this extremely unlikely) or to waive their Bird rights which would mean we can't go over the cap to resign them. Assuming that Melo and Tyson continue their same standard of play their holds should be around $24M and $15M. As for Amare, if he's able to return to the player he was in Phoenix and his first half season here his hold should be around $24M also; if he plays more like he did last season I'm not sure what the NBA would set his hold at. If we want to bring back all three we'd have no space; if we'd want to bring back Tyson and Melo or Amare we'd have around $2M in space; if we want to bring back Melo or Amare we'd have $17M; and if we want to bring back just Tyson we'd have around $26M. Again, these number are based on the current salary cap.

Based off of this list http://www.hoopsworld.com/2015-nba-free-agents/ I think our best option would be to go after Rondo and Aldridge and try to resign Tyson to a team-friendly deal. Or, we could resign either Melo or Amare whoever is better (probably Melo), go after Rondo, and hope there's enough left over to go after a big man like Amir Johnson. A few other things. Kyrie Irving will be a restricted free agent and I doubt there's any contract that Cleveland wouldn't match. Shumpert will also be a restricted free agent so we'll have to see what sort of contract offers he'll be getting. Kevin Love has a player option he could exercise that Summer but, I remember reading that the new CBA made it so players make more money if they don't opt out of their contract.

I think Rondo is a great option at that point. Boston might want to start over at that point and may not want to pay rondo more than he is making now. Melo, Rondo, Shumpert, and a resigned Tyson (on a very friendly deal) makes us a nice looking team. Rondo's abilities on defense, his control of the game, and his championship experience should make him a nice mix with Melo at that point in their careers.

GodSaveTheKnicks
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10/20/2012  12:35 PM
Knixkik wrote:
VCoug wrote:I don't think either of those options will be taken. There's no way Dolan will agree to blow everything up after this season so at best (worst?) we're looking at starting over in the Summer of 2015. Right now we have $12M in salary for Felton, Shumpert, and Novak assuming that all their options are picked up and I see no reason to believe that won't be the case. JR Smith signed a sweetheart deal with us this offseason with a player option for next season; he will likely opt out with the understanding that we'll use his Early Bird rights to resign him at around $5M/year, which will bring us to $17M in salary. Based on the current salary cap that leaves us with $41M in space.

Now, if we want to resign any of our big three that automatically reduces our cap space since their Bird rights will create a cap hold; the only way to regain that space is to sign them to contracts less than their cap hold (I find this extremely unlikely) or to waive their Bird rights which would mean we can't go over the cap to resign them. Assuming that Melo and Tyson continue their same standard of play their holds should be around $24M and $15M. As for Amare, if he's able to return to the player he was in Phoenix and his first half season here his hold should be around $24M also; if he plays more like he did last season I'm not sure what the NBA would set his hold at. If we want to bring back all three we'd have no space; if we'd want to bring back Tyson and Melo or Amare we'd have around $2M in space; if we want to bring back Melo or Amare we'd have $17M; and if we want to bring back just Tyson we'd have around $26M. Again, these number are based on the current salary cap.

Based off of this list http://www.hoopsworld.com/2015-nba-free-agents/ I think our best option would be to go after Rondo and Aldridge and try to resign Tyson to a team-friendly deal. Or, we could resign either Melo or Amare whoever is better (probably Melo), go after Rondo, and hope there's enough left over to go after a big man like Amir Johnson. A few other things. Kyrie Irving will be a restricted free agent and I doubt there's any contract that Cleveland wouldn't match. Shumpert will also be a restricted free agent so we'll have to see what sort of contract offers he'll be getting. Kevin Love has a player option he could exercise that Summer but, I remember reading that the new CBA made it so players make more money if they don't opt out of their contract.

I think Rondo is a great option at that point. Boston might want to start over at that point and may not want to pay rondo more than he is making now. Melo, Rondo, Shumpert, and a resigned Tyson (on a very friendly deal) makes us a nice looking team. Rondo's abilities on defense, his control of the game, and his championship experience should make him a nice mix with Melo at that point in their careers.

Agree we'll have to wait till after the 2014/2015 season when everyone comes off. The Lakers have Pau ($19M), Kobe ($30M) coming off after the 2013/14 season so if we want to blow things up after that season we'll have to compete with them for players. Which franchise would you rather play for?

Carmelo Anthony has a PLAYER option after the 2013/2014 season. He will also be 30 years old. He could

a) consider leaving for the Lakers to team up with Dwight Howard. This is assuming the Lakers resign Howard and Lebron stays in Miami/goes anywhere other than LA.

b) leverage that to get us to sign a monster extension leaving the Knicks paying max $ for a guy on the wrong side of 30.

I have a sinking feeling this is what will happen. I would MUCH rather we sign someone coming off a rookie contract like Irving who has his best years AHEAD of him.

Especially if we haven't won anything in this 2-3 year window when it looks like for haters and lovers alike, Melo has no more excuses.

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
Nalod
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10/20/2012  1:31 PM
Couple of years down the road? Man I Can't get thru the next few weeks with this team.

Knicks won't let it get boring.

We'll resign Melo and he'll be our A-Rod!

But perhaps we get that championship first.

Syniko
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10/21/2012  8:46 PM
A couple of years down the road? about two decades too late you mean.
JamesLin
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10/22/2012  5:21 AM
I think the plan is..same format for the past oh, years since taking the team from your dad:

1. Do bad picks on draft day
2. Hire a star player on his descending to nobody or injury with lots and lots of money attached with 5+ years of contract
3. Hire another overpriced star to try to fit the puzzle
4. Get rid of the coach and tries to hire another coach that will have no saying in personnel, especially one that will talk back to Isiah Thomas the other gay duo
5. Stay out of media spotlight.
6. Rinse, wash, repeat until a fan kills you.

Get busy living or get busy dying. ---- Andy Dufresne
AnubisADL
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10/22/2012  11:22 AM
Realistically as long as Melo is healthy we will make the playoffs. So rebuilding through the draft will be difficult. Best bet would be to get under the cap to sign a young UFA coming off their first big contract.

Guys want to play for the Knicks but the Knicks never have cap space.

A young two way PG or Big could jump start this team. We still have a prime Melo.

I'd kill for Bynum, Aldridge, Jennings, Irving, Tyreke Evans.

NY Knicks - Retirement home for players and GMs
mrKnickShot
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10/22/2012  11:23 AM
AnubisADL wrote:Realistically as long as Melo is healthy we will make the playoffs. So rebuilding through the draft will be difficult. Best bet would be to get under the cap to sign a young UFA coming off their first big contract.

Guys want to play for the Knicks but the Knicks never have cap space.

A young two way PG or Big could jump start this team. We still have a prime Melo.

I'd kill for Bynum, Aldridge, Jennings, Irving, Tyreke Evans.

Tyreke Evans?

Nalod
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10/22/2012  11:26 AM
AnubisADL wrote:Realistically as long as Melo is healthy we will make the playoffs. So rebuilding through the draft will be difficult. Best bet would be to get under the cap to sign a young UFA coming off their first big contract.

Guys want to play for the Knicks but the Knicks never have cap space.

A young two way PG or Big could jump start this team. We still have a prime Melo.

I'd kill for Bynum, Aldridge, Jennings, Irving, Tyreke Evans.

Don't worry, Dolan hears you!

Your right on the money! Make the playoffs and hope for a new star!

Knixkik
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10/22/2012  11:32 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/22/2012  11:33 AM
AnubisADL wrote:Realistically as long as Melo is healthy we will make the playoffs. So rebuilding through the draft will be difficult. Best bet would be to get under the cap to sign a young UFA coming off their first big contract.

Guys want to play for the Knicks but the Knicks never have cap space.

A young two way PG or Big could jump start this team. We still have a prime Melo.

I'd kill for Bynum, Aldridge, Jennings, Irving, Tyreke Evans.

This is along the exact lines i've been thinking. Knicks never have a problem finding guys who want to play here, we just need the flexibility. With a healthy, prime Melo, we make the playoffs each year. He has proven to be one of only 5-10 players in the league that can get you to the playoffs each year. We know he has his issues beyond that, but he will get you there. Knicks really need to do their research in finding what types of players can play off of Melo best. You can build around him if you have the right supporting cast that hides his weaknesses. I still think we can build this team like Dallas did around Dirk. Melo is not to that level, but could get there later in his career. I think we have some of the right pieces right now with Chandler, Shumpert, Novak, Smith, and possibly Felton.

AnubisADL
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10/22/2012  11:34 AM
Tyreke Evans isn't ideal but we need an infusion of young talent.
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A couple of years down the road

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