Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Opening Tip: What are Knicks' title odds?
By Jared Zwerling

Every weekday morning throughout the season, ESPNNewYork.com will tackle a burning question about the Knicks in our "Opening Tip" segment.

Today's Burning Question: What are the Knicks' title odds this season?

While the Knicks have been the long-standing basketball kings in New York, they're now the underdogs in Sin City.

Vegas odds came out on Tuesday, giving the Nets the edge over the Knicks to win the 2013 title (30-1 to 35-1). In addition, the Nets have 12-1 odds to claim the Eastern Conference, while the Knicks are tied with the Pacers at 14-1. Overall, the Heat (11-5), Lakers (5-2) and Thunder (9-2) are the clear championship favorites.

But the Knicks could care less about that stuff.

"That's fine with me," Carmelo Anthony said after practice on Thursday. "I'm cool. We cool. We ain't thinking about that. We're thinking about ourselves. We can't control the Vegas odds."

"I don't care about no Vegas odds, because you know why?" Rasheed Wallace said. "All those guys who are making those bets and making those odds, they're not out there on that hardwood. So you can't say that."

While the Knicks have the stronger frontcourt, and the Nets the stronger backcourt, there is reason to believe the Knicks will be the better team because of their defensive depth on the perimeter and interior. That's the biggest question surrounding the basically all-new Nets.

The Knicks could regularly shut down opponents in the high 80s, while scoring more than 100 points per game based on their versatile offensive pieces (for example, Anthony, Amare Stoudemire and others rotating in and out of the block). So far in training camp, Mike Woodson has been impressed with STAT's inside game and he's starting to notice the different options he has initiating halfcourt sets through the post.

"It looks good," the coach said. "Amare is a 6-10 player that should be able to post the ball some. He's such an excellent free throw shooter, so if he doesn't make the bucket, you hope that he gets fouled and he goes to the line and shoots a high percentage, makes his two free throws and then he gets ready to play defense.

"I'm just trying to mix it up a little bit for him, where he's just not picking-and-popping or just picking-and-rolling. I'm just trying to give him some touches down there. It won't be a lot, but he'll get some. Tyson will get some, Melo, all of our bigs and guys that I think can post the ball. J.R., we'll utilize him some down there as well, and we'll see how it plays out."

Anthony said Stoudemire's post play has improved -- thanks to working with Hakeem Olajuwon in the offseason -- and it's been noticeable during practice, especially his footwork. STAT has unleashed some "new jewels" (which he calls them), consisting of fakes, spin moves and jump hooks, and his presence on the block has helped the team continue to sharpen its ball rotation to open shooters. Melo said his frontcourt teammate feels more at ease down low.

"It's not really about taking the moves that Olajuwon gave him," he said. "I think it's more of the insight and the knoweledge, and being confident and comfortable down there when you get the basketball to take your time, and to know that you can make something happen.

"He's getting better and better at that each day. We try our best to get it to him down there right now, just so he can get accustomed to being down there, being comfortable. At the end of the day, that's the most important thing. If you're not comfortable down there, then it's not going to work."

On the Nets' side, there's also the uncertainty of center Brook Lopez making it through a full season after only playing five games in 2011-12 due to a right foot injury. On the flip side, Chandler's been recently healthy, and he has the unique one-on-one guarding ability to make Lopez ineffective. He is, after all, the reigning Defensive Player of the Year.

But, of course, injuries could affect the Knicks more with their older age, which is likely why Vegas sees more promise in the younger Nets team.

What do you think are the Knicks' title odds? Leave us your comments below.

You can follow Jared Zwerling on Twitter.

I know I know we're old and an injury waiting to happen and enough talk we have to prove it on the court yada yada....but the Nyets!?!!? Over the Knicks?!!!?!!

Really?!!??!

That sounds crazy but I see what they are doing.

I don't do money because it takes the fun out of it. Same reason I stopped doing "game picker". I don't like to feel good about a loss if thats logically how I thought it would go.

Odds get defied all the time. I hope knicks do it.

Lopez=Chadler- Defense vs. offense.

Humpfries<Amare

Wallace<Melo

Johnson>JR Smith

Deron>Felton

Looks like a tie. I used starters as both teams ave big questions off the bench. Early reports have Blatch doing very well and Marshon Brooks has very good upside. Kidd is in decay and to what level we don't know. Same for Camby. JR Smith is better than any Net bench player but Brooks is young and might be able to put up points. My analysis is for who I think is on teh floor the last 5 min of the game.

So its a tie? Actually I have Bropez a slight advantage because Tyson is foul prone could be an offensive liability. I doubt in a slow down end of game Tyson gets many touches, but Bropez will. So advantage N*ts but ever so slight.

Tyson has a history of health proplems and BroPez foot put him out last season. Camby might be a better finisher because he has some mid range game. Blatch may be an idiot but if rehabilitated could be a great pick up for them.

Its just an odds evaluaton head to head.

No big deal.

IrishKnickFan wrote:The Nets are getting their ass kissed even though they havent proven a damn thing yet

as I said, just because you make a lot of noise, doesn't mean you are doing things..

nets didn't make much noise about the Joe johnson trade

no news coming out of nets camp that their guys after 10 years decide to show up in shape

no news of nets players working out with HOF players on their games, no coach going around acting like "father figure"...

they are just going about their business quietly..professionally..

what does all of that mean? probably nothing

just goes to show maybe there is something else that people look at.. even bookies..

tkf wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:The Nets are getting their ass kissed even though they havent proven a damn thing yet

as I said, just because you make a lot of noise, doesn't mean you are doing things..

nets didn't make much noise about the Joe johnson trade

no news coming out of nets camp that their guys after 10 years decide to show up in shape

no news of nets players working out with HOF players on their games, no coach going around acting like "father figure"...

they are just going about their business quietly..professionally..

what does all of that mean? probably nothing

just goes to show maybe there is something else that people look at.. even bookies..

Are they really though? Pretty sure the nets have been talking a tonne of trash about us, and how they're new yorks number one team. Don't think they've been cool professionals at all. Meanwhile our players have refused to get drawn into it.

3G4G wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:The Nets are getting their ass kissed even though they havent proven a damn thing yet

as I said, just because you make a lot of noise, doesn't mean you are doing things..

nets didn't make much noise about the Joe johnson trade

no news coming out of nets camp that their guys after 10 years decide to show up in shape

no news of nets players working out with HOF players on their games, no coach going around acting like "father figure"...

they are just going about their business quietly..professionally..

what does all of that mean? probably nothing

just goes to show maybe there is something else that people look at.. even bookies..

Are they really though? Pretty sure the nets have been talking a tonne of trash about us, and how they're new yorks number one team. Don't think they've been cool professionals at all. Meanwhile our players have refused to get drawn into it.

I like to see quotes from actual Nets reps and players, and not Charles Barkley or SA like Stephen A. Smith, and not their fans.....saying they a New York's #1 team?

I could be mistaken, but didn't the owner say something to the effects they they were New Yorks #1 team?

Uptown wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Uptown wrote:

3G4G wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:The Nets are getting their ass kissed even though they havent proven a damn thing yet

as I said, just because you make a lot of noise, doesn't mean you are doing things..

nets didn't make much noise about the Joe johnson trade

no news coming out of nets camp that their guys after 10 years decide to show up in shape

no news of nets players working out with HOF players on their games, no coach going around acting like "father figure"...

they are just going about their business quietly..professionally..

what does all of that mean? probably nothing

just goes to show maybe there is something else that people look at.. even bookies..

Are they really though? Pretty sure the nets have been talking a tonne of trash about us, and how they're new yorks number one team. Don't think they've been cool professionals at all. Meanwhile our players have refused to get drawn into it.

I like to see quotes from actual Nets reps and players, and not Charles Barkley or SA like Stephen A. Smith, and not their fans.....saying they a New York's #1 team?

I could be mistaken, but didn't the owner say something to the effects they they were New Yorks #1 team?

He called us the "second team" in New York which if being technical he's accurate in his statement speaking from a 1rst team perspective. It's like someone speaking in First Person to others.

“Excuse me, what is that name? Ah, oh, Knicks. Yes, I’ve heard about this second team in New York.”

He also called Dolan "that little man" and it's obvious he's doing his job as owner to sell his team and sell this new rivalry

Your playing with semantics here. You know exactly what he meant by that statement as he's been taking shots at the Knicks since he officially took over the franchise. He said they are the 1st team meaning, in his mind the Knicks are the Jets to the Nyets, Giants. So, there is your direct quote from the top of the organization..... And you know good and d***-well that if Dolan made such a statment, he would be flame-broiled on this board.

What really strikes me as odd, is the extent that some on this board go to defend and clarify the statements of the other teams owners. The sunny out-look of other teams (Warriors, Rockets, Wizards, etc) and watch out for this and that up-coming team when we all know these up-coming teams will not even sniff a championship let alone a playoff birth. But when it comes to the home-team, Knicks fans go the other way and craft paragraphs that spin anything remotely positive into a negative.

Okay so you found the owner who's really been on this tip every since he took over the team, nothing new. The same owner who posted a Billboard stating "Blueprint to Success" he's continuing his pattern of presumptuousness.

But let's stop pretending there's this raging current of opinion being spoken on publicly that Brooklyn is the #1 team in New York. Only in the imagination of paranoid fans is this the case.

Uptown wrote:

3G4G wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:The Nets are getting their ass kissed even though they havent proven a damn thing yet

as I said, just because you make a lot of noise, doesn't mean you are doing things..

nets didn't make much noise about the Joe johnson trade

no news coming out of nets camp that their guys after 10 years decide to show up in shape

no news of nets players working out with HOF players on their games, no coach going around acting like "father figure"...

they are just going about their business quietly..professionally..

what does all of that mean? probably nothing

just goes to show maybe there is something else that people look at.. even bookies..

Are they really though? Pretty sure the nets have been talking a tonne of trash about us, and how they're new yorks number one team. Don't think they've been cool professionals at all. Meanwhile our players have refused to get drawn into it.

I like to see quotes from actual Nets reps and players, and not Charles Barkley or SA like Stephen A. Smith, and not their fans.....saying they a New York's #1 team?

I could be mistaken, but didn't the owner say something to the effects they they were New Yorks #1 team?

They are out there. I follow the Knicks but this is a great site and the Nets are getting hyped in a similar manner.

http://www.netsdaily.com/

Owners hawking their team? Scandalous!

dk7th wrote:

Uptown wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Uptown wrote:

3G4G wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:The Nets are getting their ass kissed even though they havent proven a damn thing yet

as I said, just because you make a lot of noise, doesn't mean you are doing things..

nets didn't make much noise about the Joe johnson trade

no news coming out of nets camp that their guys after 10 years decide to show up in shape

no news of nets players working out with HOF players on their games, no coach going around acting like "father figure"...

they are just going about their business quietly..professionally..

what does all of that mean? probably nothing

just goes to show maybe there is something else that people look at.. even bookies..

Are they really though? Pretty sure the nets have been talking a tonne of trash about us, and how they're new yorks number one team. Don't think they've been cool professionals at all. Meanwhile our players have refused to get drawn into it.

I like to see quotes from actual Nets reps and players, and not Charles Barkley or SA like Stephen A. Smith, and not their fans.....saying they a New York's #1 team?

I could be mistaken, but didn't the owner say something to the effects they they were New Yorks #1 team?

He called us the "second team" in New York which if being technical he's accurate in his statement speaking from a 1rst team perspective. It's like someone speaking in First Person to others.

“Excuse me, what is that name? Ah, oh, Knicks. Yes, I’ve heard about this second team in New York.”

He also called Dolan "that little man" and it's obvious he's doing his job as owner to sell his team and sell this new rivalry

Your playing with semantics here. You know exactly what he meant by that statement as he's been taking shots at the Knicks since he officially took over the franchise. He said they are the 1st team meaning, in his mind the Knicks are the Jets to the Nyets, Giants. So, there is your direct quote from the top of the organization..... And you know good and d***-well that if Dolan made such a statment, he would be flame-broiled on this board.

What really strikes me as odd, is the extent that some on this board go to defend and clarify the statements of the other teams owners. The sunny out-look of other teams (Warriors, Rockets, Wizards, etc) and watch out for this and that up-coming team when we all know these up-coming teams will not even sniff a championship let alone a playoff birth. But when it comes to the home-team, Knicks fans go the other way and craft paragraphs that spin anything remotely positive into a negative.

come on lets not be coy... there is nothing odd about it. it's because the knicks are owned by one of the two worst owners in the nba. why should anybody feel good about having dolan as the knick owner?!? he has been an unmitigated disaster, blundering from terrible hires to eleventh hour interloping to petulant irrationality.

vegas simply sees what the infidels among knick fans see.

I still don't see the hype, not even in his comments. How can you hype a team when you're being asked an opinion about another team. That's like a slow chain reaction. MP has been an outspoken owner since day 1, his statement holds no more weight in it's original time stamp than had he said it many many many many many months ago.

That's like me saying Knicks are being overhyped as contenders and then pulling a Dolan quote with him saying he believes this team is Championship material....lol come on!