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Knicks Off-season Report Card
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crzymdups
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8/14/2012  4:55 PM
decent write-up of the off-season moves on a slow news day.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19789750/nba-offseason-report-new-york-knicks

Over the next month, CBSSports.com's Eye On Basketball will take a team-by-team look at the 2012 NBA offseason. Next up: the New York Knicks. You can find our offseason reports here.

I. How they finished 2012: When you say it was a tumultuous year even for the Knicks, you're really saying something.

After a hot start to the season, the Knicks fell into a deep slide. Both Amar'e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony fell into injuries which consistently held them out. Just when all hope was lost, enter Jeremy Lin.

When Linsanity came, suddenly the Knicks were a whole new team. They were excited and enthused, ready to take on the world. The Lakers, the Mavericks, good team fell at the hands of the new-look Knicks. Adjustments were made to defend Lin by the better teams, but with Anthony and Stoudemire slated to return, who knows what could happen?

Yeah, and then everything crashed into the ocean again. Lin and Anthony didn't mesh (shocker), the team struggled, and then bam, Mike D'Antoni reportedly told ownership he wanted to trade Melo. When it was clear that wasn't going to happen from the CAA-heavily-influenced Knicks, D'Antoni walked. Mike Woodson took over, threw out a new ISOMelo offense, Lin got hurt, and the Knicks caught fire late behind some Anthony fireworks.

But because that kind of approach isn't sustainable, the Knicks were destroyed by the Heat in the first round.

II. Needs entering the offseason: With Jeremy Lin a restricted free agent and Baron Davis just about done after a knee injury, point guard was the biggest concern. They needed depth down low, particularly for rebounding and defense, and they needed shooters, with Iman Shumpert out for nine months to a year after knee surgery and J.R. Smith a free agent.

And they needed a coach, along with some overall depth to fill in around the new "all Melo, all the time" plan.

III. The Draft: As is often the case, the Knicks did not have a first-round draft pick, which was sent to Houston in the Tracy McGrady deal. In the second round, they drafted Kostas Papanikolau. They later sent him to Portland in the deal for Raymond Felton. Good times.

IV. Free Agency: OK, here's where things got nuts. They were going to make a move for Steve Nash, and were considered a front-runner, alongside the Raptors. To block a sign-and-trade, the Raptors signed Landry Fields for $20 million, an outrageous number. With the Knicks unable to complete the deal, Nash whisked off to the Lakers (where he was likely going to end up anyway with his daughters living there). So the Knicks then turned and acquired Jason Kidd.

Kidd's abilities have slipped and he became more of a game manager and spot-up shooter later in his career, but last year even his three-point shooting dropped back down. The plan was for Kidd to be the veteran presence for Jeremy Lin, who they were clearly, obviously, make-no-mistake going to re-sign no matter what happened.

Yeah, about that.

The Rockets came to terms with Lin on an offer sheet, and then adjusted it later with a "poison pill" to jack up the price of the third year for the Knicks. But there was no concern, because the Knicks print their own currency and there's no way they were going to miss out on the marketing potential of Lin for a few extra dollars in the third year.

Then all hell broke loose.

On a Saturday night, word leaked that Raymond Felton had told a reporter he was closing to signing with the Knicks in a sign-and-trade, and that Lin would not be re-signed. Hours later, the full details of the sign-and-trade came out, and indeed, Felton was headed to the Knicks. But there was still some doubt that the Knicks were going to let Lin go. Finally, they elected not to match the $25 million offer sheet and let Lin walk, shocking just about everyone.

Reports would later surface that the Knicks were hurt by how Lin conducted the negotiatons, and that he had helped the Rockets put together an offer that was worse for their long-term flexibility than the original offer. Lin pleaded innocence throughout the process, saying he signed what was in front of him.

So to recap: The Knicks went from Jeremy Lin and Steve Nash to Jason Kidd and Raymond Felton in a month. That tells you a little about how this offseason was for the Knicks.

They also got J.R. Smith back at an absurdly cheap price and signed veteran reserve center Marcus Camby to fill that hole at rebounding and defense down low. They made Mike Woodson the official head coach, removing his interim tag. In a related story, Mike Woodson switched representatives to CAA.

They also signed 35-year-old Argentinian point guard Pablo Prigioni, and landed very capable veteran wing Ronnie Brewer for cheap. They re-signed master of the "Discount Double-Check" Steve Novak as well, and landed Kurt Thomas along with Felton.

V. Overall grade and accomplishments: C+

The Knicks didn't get worse, per say. They added depth, they added experience, they didn't overpay for Lin, which is to be commended.

But did they get better?

Losing Lin is a loss. It just is. It's possible he never recaptures that magic he had those few weeks in February. But it was worth it to try. For a franchise that has historically and consistently not cared a bit about how much money they spend, to become frugal over a guy with that kind of upside and the way the fans reacted to him is almost cruel.

Getting Smith back on a cheap deal? Fantastic. Adding Camby? Great move.

Felton comes with a lot of, ahem, baggage, but he was also very productive in New York and when motivated to keep his conditioning up, can be a really solid player. He and Amar'e Stoudemire worked well in the pick and roll once they figured it out before Felton was traded. There are risks, but he's a veteran player. It's just such a letdown for Knicks fans to go from Lin to Felton.

If the veterans stay healthy and don't slide off the map, this team could improve on 2012. If any of it goes wrong, or if the plan to let Melo do as Melo is wont to do fails, it could get messy in a hurry.

The Knicks didn't fail this offseason.

They just didn't quite pass with flying colors, either.

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CrushAlot
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8/14/2012  5:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/14/2012  5:31 PM
He lost me at hot start. The Knicks were2-4 won 4 straight and then lost 9 of 10. I am not sure where the hot start that he referenced happened.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
CrushAlot
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8/14/2012  5:29 PM
I don't know. I knew it wasn't written by Berger when I read it. After reading it a second time I think it's a poorly written opinion piece.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
loweyecue
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8/14/2012  7:09 PM
Interesting that he points out the switch from NashLin to KiddFelton. That right there took our off season from A+ to C+. We added a lot of front court depth but its in the form of broken down 40 year olds. I don't care how good we are on paper. Basketball is played on wood. We had the best frontcourt in th eleague last year - on paper, at least according many fans here. We all know how that worked out. Even Eddy Curry and Marbury had talent.

+Kidd: Too old to play at a high level, too drunk to care?
+Camby: Couldn't stay healthy when it counted most, still good pick up
+Kurt T: One of my favorite ex Knicks, but he can barely move anymore
+Pablo: No idea
+Felton: Hardnosed player, not the sharpest tack in the box, weight issues
+Brewer: Good pick up, good defender, limited offense
=Novak: He is what he is
=JR: a lot rests on him and I have my doubts
-Fields: Good energy and hustle, movement without he ball, poor shooter, mediocre defender - Not a big loss
-Toney Douglas: GOOD RIDDANCE
-Jeffries: Second best perimeter defender on team, great energy and hustle player, great teammate - will be missed
-Lin: Only Dolan could be sh!thead enough to let him walk, but not sure he would be used properly even if he had stayed. Woodson may not know how to actually run an offense
-Walker: Useful player last couple of years, hit threes, defended - but replaceable

Overall same old Knicks, yeah we look different ON PAPER! Better defense in the front court, equal or slightly worse in the backcourt until Shumpert is back. No offense other than Melo and a very streaky JR. STAT a big IF.
C+ is about right.

Choice of coach: F

Welcome to the New York CAA (Carmelo Anthony Allstars) - yeah pun intended

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
VCoug
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8/14/2012  7:30 PM
loweyecue wrote:Interesting that he points out the switch from NashLin to KiddFelton. That right there took our off season from A+ to C+. We added a lot of front court depth but its in the form of broken down 40 year olds. I don't care how good we are on paper. Basketball is played on wood. We had the best frontcourt in th eleague last year - on paper, at least according many fans here. We all know how that worked out. Even Eddy Curry and Marbury had talent.

+Kidd: Too old to play at a high level, too drunk to care?
+Camby: Couldn't stay healthy when it counted most, still good pick up
+Kurt T: One of my favorite ex Knicks, but he can barely move anymore
+Pablo: No idea
+Felton: Hardnosed player, not the sharpest tack in the box, weight issues
+Brewer: Good pick up, good defender, limited offense
=Novak: He is what he is
=JR: a lot rests on him and I have my doubts
-Fields: Good energy and hustle, movement without he ball, poor shooter, mediocre defender - Not a big loss
-Toney Douglas: GOOD RIDDANCE
-Jeffries: Second best perimeter defender on team, great energy and hustle player, great teammate - will be missed
-Lin: Only Dolan could be sh!thead enough to let him walk, but not sure he would be used properly even if he had stayed. Woodson may not know how to actually run an offense
-Walker: Useful player last couple of years, hit threes, defended - but replaceable

Overall same old Knicks, yeah we look different ON PAPER! Better defense in the front court, equal or slightly worse in the backcourt until Shumpert is back. No offense other than Melo and a very streaky JR. STAT a big IF.
C+ is about right.

Choice of coach: F

Welcome to the New York CAA (Carmelo Anthony Allstars) - yeah pun intended

The only thing I slightly disagree with is choice of coach. Let's be honest, choosing Mike Woodson over Phil Jackson is monumentally stupid but there are worse choices than Woodson. I think the fact that at least we have a capable choice deserves better than an F, not an A but maybe a B- or C+.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
callmened
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8/14/2012  7:42 PM
overall im happy with the off season moves...we definitely got deeper...we replaced baron with kidd (upgrade), jeffries with camby (upgrade), harrelson with kurt (upgrade) and fields with brewer (upgrade)

the only bummer was losing lin...however im not sure if we downgraded...so for now ill call it even...so overall im happy...yes we got older but we got better overall

my grade = B (if we kept Lin B+)

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
CrushAlot
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8/14/2012  7:49 PM
loweyecue wrote:Interesting that he points out the switch from NashLin to KiddFelton. That right there took our off season from A+ to C+. We added a lot of front court depth but its in the form of broken down 40 year olds. I don't care how good we are on paper. Basketball is played on wood. We had the best frontcourt in th eleague last year - on paper, at least according many fans here. We all know how that worked out. Even Eddy Curry and Marbury had talent.

+Kidd: Too old to play at a high level, too drunk to care?
+Camby: Couldn't stay healthy when it counted most, still good pick up
+Kurt T: One of my favorite ex Knicks, but he can barely move anymore
+Pablo: No idea
+Felton: Hardnosed player, not the sharpest tack in the box, weight issues
+Brewer: Good pick up, good defender, limited offense
=Novak: He is what he is
=JR: a lot rests on him and I have my doubts
-Fields: Good energy and hustle, movement without he ball, poor shooter, mediocre defender - Not a big loss
-Toney Douglas: GOOD RIDDANCE
-Jeffries: Second best perimeter defender on team, great energy and hustle player, great teammate - will be missed
-Lin: Only Dolan could be sh!thead enough to let him walk, but not sure he would be used properly even if he had stayed. Woodson may not know how to actually run an offense
-Walker: Useful player last couple of years, hit threes, defended - but replaceable

Overall same old Knicks, yeah we look different ON PAPER! Better defense in the front court, equal or slightly worse in the backcourt until Shumpert is back. No offense other than Melo and a very streaky JR. STAT a big IF.
C+ is about right.

Choice of coach: F

Welcome to the New York CAA (Carmelo Anthony Allstars) - yeah pun intended

The Knicks did their due dilligence with Nash but never really had a chance. Kidd as a back up/mentor to Lin was a great plan. Two Knicks changed agents this offseason, Lin and Woodson. Lin's people and the Rockets put the Knicks in a can't win situation and they moved on. Woodson knew that he would not be hired if he retained Larry Brown's agent so he switched agents so that he could become coach of the Knicks.

The Knicks are built to be a strong defensive team, and to make a run at the playoffs. The CAA stuff is overblown in my opinion. Woodson, Melo, JR and his brother, and Brewer are CAA clients. Brewer and Smith signed deals well under their market value to be Knicks. I don't think CAA has a Falk like control on free agent moves but if that is the case the Smith and Brewer deals certainly helped the Knicks for next year.

In regards to Woodson, it was his job to lose and he got the team winning and into the playoffs. I know PJax stated that he was never contacted by the Knicks but he also isn't coaching any place else. Personally, I loved the 18-6 run and the way the team played for Woodson and had no back to back loses. But I also wasn't telling people their euphoria was over the top during that run. I think this team wins at least 50 games next season. That certainly isn't the same old Knicks.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
mrKnickShot
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8/14/2012  7:55 PM
VCoug wrote:
loweyecue wrote:Interesting that he points out the switch from NashLin to KiddFelton. That right there took our off season from A+ to C+. We added a lot of front court depth but its in the form of broken down 40 year olds. I don't care how good we are on paper. Basketball is played on wood. We had the best frontcourt in th eleague last year - on paper, at least according many fans here. We all know how that worked out. Even Eddy Curry and Marbury had talent.

+Kidd: Too old to play at a high level, too drunk to care?
+Camby: Couldn't stay healthy when it counted most, still good pick up
+Kurt T: One of my favorite ex Knicks, but he can barely move anymore
+Pablo: No idea
+Felton: Hardnosed player, not the sharpest tack in the box, weight issues
+Brewer: Good pick up, good defender, limited offense
=Novak: He is what he is
=JR: a lot rests on him and I have my doubts
-Fields: Good energy and hustle, movement without he ball, poor shooter, mediocre defender - Not a big loss
-Toney Douglas: GOOD RIDDANCE
-Jeffries: Second best perimeter defender on team, great energy and hustle player, great teammate - will be missed
-Lin: Only Dolan could be sh!thead enough to let him walk, but not sure he would be used properly even if he had stayed. Woodson may not know how to actually run an offense
-Walker: Useful player last couple of years, hit threes, defended - but replaceable

Overall same old Knicks, yeah we look different ON PAPER! Better defense in the front court, equal or slightly worse in the backcourt until Shumpert is back. No offense other than Melo and a very streaky JR. STAT a big IF.
C+ is about right.

Choice of coach: F

Welcome to the New York CAA (Carmelo Anthony Allstars) - yeah pun intended

The only thing I slightly disagree with is choice of coach. Let's be honest, choosing Mike Woodson over Phil Jackson is monumentally stupid but there are worse choices than Woodson. I think the fact that at least we have a capable choice deserves better than an F, not an A but maybe a B- or C+.

I agree that though Woodson seems ok, not calling PJax killed me

loweyecue
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8/14/2012  8:32 PM
VCoug wrote:
loweyecue wrote:Interesting that he points out the switch from NashLin to KiddFelton. That right there took our off season from A+ to C+. We added a lot of front court depth but its in the form of broken down 40 year olds. I don't care how good we are on paper. Basketball is played on wood. We had the best frontcourt in th eleague last year - on paper, at least according many fans here. We all know how that worked out. Even Eddy Curry and Marbury had talent.

+Kidd: Too old to play at a high level, too drunk to care?
+Camby: Couldn't stay healthy when it counted most, still good pick up
+Kurt T: One of my favorite ex Knicks, but he can barely move anymore
+Pablo: No idea
+Felton: Hardnosed player, not the sharpest tack in the box, weight issues
+Brewer: Good pick up, good defender, limited offense
=Novak: He is what he is
=JR: a lot rests on him and I have my doubts
-Fields: Good energy and hustle, movement without he ball, poor shooter, mediocre defender - Not a big loss
-Toney Douglas: GOOD RIDDANCE
-Jeffries: Second best perimeter defender on team, great energy and hustle player, great teammate - will be missed
-Lin: Only Dolan could be sh!thead enough to let him walk, but not sure he would be used properly even if he had stayed. Woodson may not know how to actually run an offense
-Walker: Useful player last couple of years, hit threes, defended - but replaceable

Overall same old Knicks, yeah we look different ON PAPER! Better defense in the front court, equal or slightly worse in the backcourt until Shumpert is back. No offense other than Melo and a very streaky JR. STAT a big IF.
C+ is about right.

Choice of coach: F

Welcome to the New York CAA (Carmelo Anthony Allstars) - yeah pun intended

The only thing I slightly disagree with is choice of coach. Let's be honest, choosing Mike Woodson over Phil Jackson is monumentally stupid but there are worse choices than Woodson. I think the fact that at least we have a capable choice deserves better than an F, not an A but maybe a B- or C+.

Woodson isn't horrible, but I was commenting more on the action of chosing the coach or lack thereof. After 4 years of a coach who was good only on one side of the ball we just went and got one exactly like him but the other side of the ball. Now this is great for people who beleive in cliches like "defense wins championships" - which is probably far more true in football than in bball. Here you have to be good on both sides and we could have doen a real coaching search instead of letting CAA dictate the terms. Stupid is as Dolan does. Duck Folan.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
VCoug
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8/14/2012  8:52 PM
loweyecue wrote:
VCoug wrote:
loweyecue wrote:Interesting that he points out the switch from NashLin to KiddFelton. That right there took our off season from A+ to C+. We added a lot of front court depth but its in the form of broken down 40 year olds. I don't care how good we are on paper. Basketball is played on wood. We had the best frontcourt in th eleague last year - on paper, at least according many fans here. We all know how that worked out. Even Eddy Curry and Marbury had talent.

+Kidd: Too old to play at a high level, too drunk to care?
+Camby: Couldn't stay healthy when it counted most, still good pick up
+Kurt T: One of my favorite ex Knicks, but he can barely move anymore
+Pablo: No idea
+Felton: Hardnosed player, not the sharpest tack in the box, weight issues
+Brewer: Good pick up, good defender, limited offense
=Novak: He is what he is
=JR: a lot rests on him and I have my doubts
-Fields: Good energy and hustle, movement without he ball, poor shooter, mediocre defender - Not a big loss
-Toney Douglas: GOOD RIDDANCE
-Jeffries: Second best perimeter defender on team, great energy and hustle player, great teammate - will be missed
-Lin: Only Dolan could be sh!thead enough to let him walk, but not sure he would be used properly even if he had stayed. Woodson may not know how to actually run an offense
-Walker: Useful player last couple of years, hit threes, defended - but replaceable

Overall same old Knicks, yeah we look different ON PAPER! Better defense in the front court, equal or slightly worse in the backcourt until Shumpert is back. No offense other than Melo and a very streaky JR. STAT a big IF.
C+ is about right.

Choice of coach: F

Welcome to the New York CAA (Carmelo Anthony Allstars) - yeah pun intended

The only thing I slightly disagree with is choice of coach. Let's be honest, choosing Mike Woodson over Phil Jackson is monumentally stupid but there are worse choices than Woodson. I think the fact that at least we have a capable choice deserves better than an F, not an A but maybe a B- or C+.

Woodson isn't horrible, but I was commenting more on the action of chosing the coach or lack thereof. After 4 years of a coach who was good only on one side of the ball we just went and got one exactly like him but the other side of the ball. Now this is great for people who beleive in cliches like "defense wins championships" - which is probably far more true in football than in bball. Here you have to be good on both sides and we could have doen a real coaching search instead of letting CAA dictate the terms. Stupid is as Dolan does. Duck Folan.

I don't necessarily disagree. My point is that there are a lot of brutally bad coaches, look who's coaching the LA teams, but Woodson is at least capable. And picking him over Phil Jackson is incredibly stupid.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
arkrud
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8/14/2012  11:32 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/14/2012  11:33 PM
If Dolan is all about making $$$ letting Lin go is moronic.
If Dolan is about building the winner getting read of all young players is moronic.
If Dolan is only about pleasing his ego (and he sure is) he is a moron for sure.
So getting other not-so-bright gang around MSG makes perfect sense.
I will give them A+ for making the team 100% what it should be as per owner liking.
Good job fellas...
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Sangfroid
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8/14/2012  11:55 PM
VCoug wrote:The only thing I slightly disagree with is choice of coach. Let's be honest, choosing Mike Woodson over Phil Jackson is monumentally stupid but there are worse choices than Woodson. I think the fact that at least we have a capable choice deserves better than an F, not an A but maybe a B- or C+.

Phil Jackson was never coming to New York

"We are playing a game. We are playing at not playing a game..."
CashMoney
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8/15/2012  12:01 AM
VCoug wrote:
loweyecue wrote:Interesting that he points out the switch from NashLin to KiddFelton. That right there took our off season from A+ to C+. We added a lot of front court depth but its in the form of broken down 40 year olds. I don't care how good we are on paper. Basketball is played on wood. We had the best frontcourt in th eleague last year - on paper, at least according many fans here. We all know how that worked out. Even Eddy Curry and Marbury had talent.

+Kidd: Too old to play at a high level, too drunk to care?
+Camby: Couldn't stay healthy when it counted most, still good pick up
+Kurt T: One of my favorite ex Knicks, but he can barely move anymore
+Pablo: No idea
+Felton: Hardnosed player, not the sharpest tack in the box, weight issues
+Brewer: Good pick up, good defender, limited offense
=Novak: He is what he is
=JR: a lot rests on him and I have my doubts
-Fields: Good energy and hustle, movement without he ball, poor shooter, mediocre defender - Not a big loss
-Toney Douglas: GOOD RIDDANCE
-Jeffries: Second best perimeter defender on team, great energy and hustle player, great teammate - will be missed
-Lin: Only Dolan could be sh!thead enough to let him walk, but not sure he would be used properly even if he had stayed. Woodson may not know how to actually run an offense
-Walker: Useful player last couple of years, hit threes, defended - but replaceable

Overall same old Knicks, yeah we look different ON PAPER! Better defense in the front court, equal or slightly worse in the backcourt until Shumpert is back. No offense other than Melo and a very streaky JR. STAT a big IF.
C+ is about right.

Choice of coach: F

Welcome to the New York CAA (Carmelo Anthony Allstars) - yeah pun intended

The only thing I slightly disagree with is choice of coach. Let's be honest, choosing Mike Woodson over Phil Jackson is monumentally stupid but there are worse choices than Woodson. I think the fact that at least we have a capable choice deserves better than an F, not an A but maybe a B- or C+.

Jackson said he would not have taken the job.

Blue & Orange 4 Life!
CashMoney
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8/15/2012  12:04 AM
Sangfroid wrote:
VCoug wrote:The only thing I slightly disagree with is choice of coach. Let's be honest, choosing Mike Woodson over Phil Jackson is monumentally stupid but there are worse choices than Woodson. I think the fact that at least we have a capable choice deserves better than an F, not an A but maybe a B- or C+.

Phil Jackson was never coming to New York

No biggie....Phil only wants to coach the best player in the league and Spoelstra isn't going anywhere soon.

Blue & Orange 4 Life!
nixluva
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8/15/2012  2:33 AM
So now that the team is all in on Melo/Woody we have a very strange collection of guys in their prime and really OLD GUYS backing them up. This is a win RIGHT NOW team. They have pushed all their chips in and there's no going back. No more youth to fall back on and rebuild around. I thought we had at least a future back court of Lin and Shump, but right now it's all about Melo/Woody. This team simply must be GREAT on D, cuz the way it's built they don't have a dynamic offense.

From what I see the offense will be middle of the road, so it's imperative that the defense be top 3 in order to have a chance to get to the finals. Just think we have to hope and pray that not only Melo has a career year, but also STAT, Felton and JR. Novak is a specialist and you can't expect him to be more than a role player. But just think about how weak this team is offensively with only Melo, STAT, Felton and JR as scorers. We can't have more than 2 of those guys have an off night at the same time. This team is gonna have trouble getting into the 90's on many nights. They simply must be a shutdown team this year to win big. I hope i'm wrong and some of the role players pan out to be better than expected on offense.

If Novak twists his ankle we have no real pure shooting from the perimeter. In building this team with Melo and STAT as the primary scoring options, you should be putting shooters around them to create space. Glen didn't do that. I really hope this works. Thing is Woody is already offensively challenged and then he has a team that really isn't set up to be dynamic on offense. He'll be riding Melo like Secretariat.

VCoug
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8/15/2012  6:08 AM
CashMoney wrote:
VCoug wrote:
loweyecue wrote:Interesting that he points out the switch from NashLin to KiddFelton. That right there took our off season from A+ to C+. We added a lot of front court depth but its in the form of broken down 40 year olds. I don't care how good we are on paper. Basketball is played on wood. We had the best frontcourt in th eleague last year - on paper, at least according many fans here. We all know how that worked out. Even Eddy Curry and Marbury had talent.

+Kidd: Too old to play at a high level, too drunk to care?
+Camby: Couldn't stay healthy when it counted most, still good pick up
+Kurt T: One of my favorite ex Knicks, but he can barely move anymore
+Pablo: No idea
+Felton: Hardnosed player, not the sharpest tack in the box, weight issues
+Brewer: Good pick up, good defender, limited offense
=Novak: He is what he is
=JR: a lot rests on him and I have my doubts
-Fields: Good energy and hustle, movement without he ball, poor shooter, mediocre defender - Not a big loss
-Toney Douglas: GOOD RIDDANCE
-Jeffries: Second best perimeter defender on team, great energy and hustle player, great teammate - will be missed
-Lin: Only Dolan could be sh!thead enough to let him walk, but not sure he would be used properly even if he had stayed. Woodson may not know how to actually run an offense
-Walker: Useful player last couple of years, hit threes, defended - but replaceable

Overall same old Knicks, yeah we look different ON PAPER! Better defense in the front court, equal or slightly worse in the backcourt until Shumpert is back. No offense other than Melo and a very streaky JR. STAT a big IF.
C+ is about right.

Choice of coach: F

Welcome to the New York CAA (Carmelo Anthony Allstars) - yeah pun intended

The only thing I slightly disagree with is choice of coach. Let's be honest, choosing Mike Woodson over Phil Jackson is monumentally stupid but there are worse choices than Woodson. I think the fact that at least we have a capable choice deserves better than an F, not an A but maybe a B- or C+.

Jackson said he would not have taken the job.

He only said that after Woodson was given an extension. All the reports before that said he wanted the job. Considering the timing of everything I believe that Jackson wanted the job and only backtracked after Dolan rejected him in order to save some face.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
loweyecue
Posts: 27468
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 11/20/2005
Member: #1037

8/15/2012  6:18 AM
If Melo gets hurt or is shooting 2-13 from the field we are going to average 50-60 points a game unless someone else steps up with Linsanity type numbers. Our defense is again being overrated. We have very little perimeter defense good outside shooting teams will kill us. We also have no speed on defense opposing team fast breaks will be brutal to watch. Shumpert will be a big part of the equation if he plays at the levels he showed before but who knows if he will even play this season.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
callmened
Posts: 24448
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/26/2012
Member: #4234

8/15/2012  6:56 AM
I basically think we have the same CORE from last yr (that shouldve probably been a 6th seed if only we didnt lose AT cleveland (that was the game STAT came back)...then we upgraded our bench...(kidd, camby)..keep in mind melo and stat had injuries...hopefully theyre better...so to me, we go from a 6th seed to a 4th seed. behind heat, celtics and sixers

PS no were not a perfect team and we definitely got older...but i choose to remain POSITIVE...but objectively speaking were a 3rd seed at best...6th seed at worst...

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
CashMoney
Posts: 23145
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 1/15/2011
Member: #3374
USA
8/15/2012  8:22 AM
VCoug wrote:
CashMoney wrote:
VCoug wrote:
loweyecue wrote:Interesting that he points out the switch from NashLin to KiddFelton. That right there took our off season from A+ to C+. We added a lot of front court depth but its in the form of broken down 40 year olds. I don't care how good we are on paper. Basketball is played on wood. We had the best frontcourt in th eleague last year - on paper, at least according many fans here. We all know how that worked out. Even Eddy Curry and Marbury had talent.

+Kidd: Too old to play at a high level, too drunk to care?
+Camby: Couldn't stay healthy when it counted most, still good pick up
+Kurt T: One of my favorite ex Knicks, but he can barely move anymore
+Pablo: No idea
+Felton: Hardnosed player, not the sharpest tack in the box, weight issues
+Brewer: Good pick up, good defender, limited offense
=Novak: He is what he is
=JR: a lot rests on him and I have my doubts
-Fields: Good energy and hustle, movement without he ball, poor shooter, mediocre defender - Not a big loss
-Toney Douglas: GOOD RIDDANCE
-Jeffries: Second best perimeter defender on team, great energy and hustle player, great teammate - will be missed
-Lin: Only Dolan could be sh!thead enough to let him walk, but not sure he would be used properly even if he had stayed. Woodson may not know how to actually run an offense
-Walker: Useful player last couple of years, hit threes, defended - but replaceable

Overall same old Knicks, yeah we look different ON PAPER! Better defense in the front court, equal or slightly worse in the backcourt until Shumpert is back. No offense other than Melo and a very streaky JR. STAT a big IF.
C+ is about right.

Choice of coach: F

Welcome to the New York CAA (Carmelo Anthony Allstars) - yeah pun intended

The only thing I slightly disagree with is choice of coach. Let's be honest, choosing Mike Woodson over Phil Jackson is monumentally stupid but there are worse choices than Woodson. I think the fact that at least we have a capable choice deserves better than an F, not an A but maybe a B- or C+.

Jackson said he would not have taken the job.

He only said that after Woodson was given an extension. All the reports before that said he wanted the job. Considering the timing of everything I believe that Jackson wanted the job and only backtracked after Dolan rejected him in order to save some face.

If that were the case he could have said he wanted the job but was never offerered the position. Instead he says that he wouldn't have taken the job, the team plays sloppy and the roster is a mess but he never had a conversation about it. Save face or sound like a douche? He can continue to meditate, enjoy retirement and wait for the Heat or Thunder to fire their respective coaches. He turned us down twice already anyway. Screw him....

Blue & Orange 4 Life!
CashMoney
Posts: 23145
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 1/15/2011
Member: #3374
USA
8/15/2012  8:37 AM
loweyecue wrote:If Melo gets hurt or is shooting 2-13 from the field we are going to average 50-60 points a game unless someone else steps up with Linsanity type numbers. Our defense is again being overrated. We have very little perimeter defense good outside shooting teams will kill us. We also have no speed on defense opposing team fast breaks will be brutal to watch. Shumpert will be a big part of the equation if he plays at the levels he showed before but who knows if he will even play this season.

The hope is both Melo and Amare play the way the way they should but should one have an off night it's the others job to get it done. I don't think our defense is being overrated. This team should be in the top 10 if not better considering we upgraded and held teams to 94.65 points per game last year. What does speed on fast break defense have to do with anything? I think Shump will play but I'm not expecting the player we saw last year unitl the 2013-2014 season.

Blue & Orange 4 Life!
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