[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Berger article on Lin to rockets
Author Thread
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
7/18/2012  1:03 AM
If Knicks are wrong to let Lin walk, does that mean Rockets are right?

By Ken Berger | NBA Insider

July 18, 2012 12:14 AM ET

NEW YORK -- First, let me pay Jeremy Lin the highest compliment. He is like politics. Reasonable people can look at the same set of his facts and draw wildly different conclusions.

Not a variety of conclusions, mind you. Only two, really. The Knicks' decision not to match Houston's offer sheet for Lin Tuesday was either the height of sensibility or downright scandalous. There is no in between. True to the current state of our societal discourse, it is either right or wrong. As in, I am right and you are wrong; you are dumb and I am smart. Or vice versa, on both counts.

And so it goes, as the late, great Kurt Vonnegut used to say.

As with most things, the Lin issue isn't quite that simple. It involves the entanglement of numerous truths, half-truths and lies of basketball, sports business, social media phenomena and pop culture all rolled into one. It involves the financial and political realities of Madison Square Garden, from whence the decision came Tuesday to pull the plug on Linsanity. And if you've ever been sucked into that MSG vortex, or simply viewed it spinning out of control from afar, you know that up is down and down is up in that world, forever and ever.

But here's what we know: The Houston Rockets, flailing in their latest attempt at reinvention, made Lin and offer he couldn't refuse -- indeed, an offer none of us would have refused. They took advantage of a quirky and arguably counterproductive loophole in the NBA compensation paradigm to present Lin with a three-year offer sheet as a restricted free agent that would pay him $5 million next season, $5.2 million the season after that and $14.9 million the season after that.

Close to the maximum pro basketball salary allowed for a player who has started 25 games in his NBA life.

Appropriately enough, this goofy loophole is named after Gilbert Arenas, one of the goofiest adult males ever to participate in the NBA labor market. The Rockets put an offer in writing to Lin, and effectively forced the Knicks to examine the two polarizing viewpoints as far as Lin's immediate future as a prolific, All-Star caliber point guard and said, in the immortal words of Arenas, "Pick one."

The Knicks chose a viewpoint Tuesday, and their referendum on Lin was a resounding one. And they are either wrong or dumb, and can't possibly be smart or right, according to the current dynamic of our intellectual approach to such matters. There is no in between on the Knicks' decision to let Lin make his millions in Houston rather than New York, even though the variables that went into the decision are so disparate and virtually impossible to isolate that no one can say for sure that the Rockets are right to do this. Only that the Knicks are wrong for not doing it.

And that black-and-white interpretation of the Lin scenario is so unfair to the facts, not to mention impervious to the inconclusive nature of those facts, that it has made a mockery of the Lindecision -- if I may be afforded one last play on words in honor of what was an exhilarating, if brief and ultimately unrewarding period in New York basketball and sports cultural history.

Since everyone, including my astute and thoughtful colleague, Gregg Doyel, is so quick to conclude that the Knicks are wrong here, may I simply pose the question differently? May I simply ask if anyone can give me a straight answer to the following question?

If the Knicks are wrong, does that mean, in turn, that the Rockets are right?

In other words, does logic follow that Jeremy Lin will be a $14.9 million basketball player three years from now? Can anyone say that with certainty?

The truth is, no one can; not even the Rockets. What the Rockets did here was the basketball equivalent of naked shortselling or some other devious mechanism of the financial markets that so obviously have failed us over the past four years. The Rockets are Lehman Brothers or Bear Stearns on this particular transaction, and it isn't so much a question of who wins the modern-day press conference on Twitter but who foots the bill down the road.

Or, to put it in terms that all of us can easily understand, I defer to the great basketball philosopher, Carmelo Anthony, who aptly branded the Rockets' offer for Lin "ridiculous." Leave it to Melo to boil down the NBA's debate of the day into a single word that nails it.

I agree with Melo. To put the Rockets' decision in terms that are more suited to our current 30-second news cycle: That was a clown offer, bro.

More to the point, here is what we know about Jeremy Lin. He came off the bench in a game on Feb. 4 against the Nets, and singlehandedly was the reason the Knicks won. He had 25 points and seven assists. I will never forget experiencing this delightful basketball moment in the stands with my family. Nor will I forget the angst I felt about attending that game as a spectator. Why, you ask? Because I was afraid that if the Knicks lost, then the coach, Mike D'Antoni, would be fired, and I would have to put down my chicken sandwich and get to work.

But the coach wasn't fired, and Lin went on a statistical and culturally important rampage the likes of which no one had ever witnessed before. He won his first six starts, putting up numbers that were historically important and unheard of. And other than five minutes, 49 seconds in the first of those starts, Lin did it without Anthony, who injured his groin in the first quarter of the Utah game on Feb. 6.

The Knicks had traded for Anthony a year earlier before anyone knew Jeremy Lin existed -- including a team Lin had played for, the Houston Rockets. Anthony came back Feb. 20 against the same New Jersey Nets that Lin had dominated in his unforeseen debut, and the Knicks proceeded to lose eight of their next 10 games. D'Antoni, the coach for whom Lin was perfect in every way and vice versa, stepped down March 14, at which point Lin and Anthony managed to win six of seven games together under interim (and now permanent) head coach Mike Woodson before Lin would miss the rest of the season with a knee injury.

These were the data upon which the Knicks were forced by the buffoonish and appropriately named Arenas rule to base the decision of whether Lin would be worthy of a $14.9 million salary three seasons from now. The body of successful work amounted to 14 games -- the smallest of sample sizes culled from the shortest NBA season in 13 years due to the lockout.

And for this, we conclude that the Rockets have it right and the Knicks have it wrong? Talk about intellectually lazy and dishonest.

Factor in what it's really about -- what it's always about in sports, the money -- and we see no further evidence of the Rockets' supposed brilliance and the Knicks' buffoonery. Assuming Lin's entire $15 million salary in 2014-15 would be taxable -- a logical conclusion, since the Knicks already have four other players on the books that season totaling $65 million -- then the real cost of his services in the balloon-payment year would be $43 million. That's $15 million in salary and $28 million in luxury tax based essentially on a 14-game run of success -- the smallest of sample sizes culled from the shortest NBA season in 13 years, half with one coach and half with another.

Not to mention that Anthony, for better or worse the Knicks' most accomplished and highest-paid commodity from this day forward, was fully available for eight of them.

Now, anyone who wants to is free to ridicule the Knicks for choosing Anthony, Amar'e Stoudemire and Tyson Chandler over Lin, but that's the easy way out. All three were acquired in the Knicks' attempt to assemble a trio of proven, accomplished All-Star players long before Linsanity was part of the vernacular. And among them, they have 2,183 NBA games -- regular season and playoffs -- on their résumés, along with 11 All-Star appearances. Jeremy Lin has 64 games and 25 starts on his résumé -- and let us all hope, by the way, that his résumé grows and improves and that he becomes a player worthy of the Lehman Brothers-inspired, Gilbert Arenas-infused contract that the Rockets are awarding him. Not based on his objective value, mind you, but based on a loophole in the rules.

Think of it this way: If Donnie Walsh had decided not to clear cap space and make a run at LeBron James in 2010 because he had a premonition that some anonymous point guard named Jeremy Lin would burst onto the scene at some undetermined point in the future and garner a $15 million salary offer from the Houston Rockets as a restricted free agent, he would've been escorted to the nearest retirement home or Bingo hall.

And in a fitting twist to this saga -- this phenomena known as Linsanity, which may endure and may not -- that's all they're talking about in the retirement homes and Bingo halls and everywhere else in New York now. How could the Knicks let Jeremy Lin go?

In Houston and elsewhere, when will they be asking how the Rockets could pay Jeremy Lin $15 million? When will we be asking if the Rockets are right, instead of just asking if the Knicks are wrong? Not today. But then, these debates are never settled when we want them to be and the answer is never as obvious as it seems.


I am generally disappointed with any journalist that covers the Knicks other than Berger, beck, and Hahn. I think Berger gets it and is on point with this article.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
AUTOADVERT
Hippo
Posts: 20045
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 2/15/2012
Member: #3924

7/18/2012  1:14 AM
Thing is for the Rockets, they only take an 8 million dollar hit each year because they are allowed to spread it out over the 3 years like that since they don't have cap problems.
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
7/18/2012  1:27 AM
Hippo wrote:Thing is for the Rockets, they only take an 8 million dollar hit each year because they are allowed to spread it out over the 3 years like that since they don't have cap problems.

Berger tweeted on twitter that year three is a 14/15 mil dollar hit for the Rockets. Told people he knew more than they did about the cba and that they should trust him.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Hippo
Posts: 20045
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 2/15/2012
Member: #3924

7/18/2012  1:29 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
Hippo wrote:Thing is for the Rockets, they only take an 8 million dollar hit each year because they are allowed to spread it out over the 3 years like that since they don't have cap problems.

Berger tweeted on twitter that year three is a 14/15 mil dollar hit for the Rockets. Told people he knew more than they did about the cba and that they should trust him.

Not what I'm hearing. For the rockets, it's 8/8/8 which is palatable.

CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
7/18/2012  1:30 AM
Hippo wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Hippo wrote:Thing is for the Rockets, they only take an 8 million dollar hit each year because they are allowed to spread it out over the 3 years like that since they don't have cap problems.

Berger tweeted on twitter that year three is a 14/15 mil dollar hit for the Rockets. Told people he knew more than they did about the cba and that they should trust him.

Not what I'm hearing. For the rockets, it's 8/8/8 which is palatable.


I know. I heard the same thing. Berger is disputing it.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Hippo
Posts: 20045
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 2/15/2012
Member: #3924

7/18/2012  1:35 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
Hippo wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Hippo wrote:Thing is for the Rockets, they only take an 8 million dollar hit each year because they are allowed to spread it out over the 3 years like that since they don't have cap problems.

Berger tweeted on twitter that year three is a 14/15 mil dollar hit for the Rockets. Told people he knew more than they did about the cba and that they should trust him.

Not what I'm hearing. For the rockets, it's 8/8/8 which is palatable.


I know. I heard the same thing. Berger is disputing it.

I guess we'll find out. Even if is's 15 mil in the final year though it's not a problem really for the Rockets who have no cap trouble.
But if they can pull an 8/8/8 then it's a steal and brilliant move on the Rockets GM's part.

BasketballJones
Posts: 31973
Alba Posts: 19
Joined: 7/16/2002
Member: #290
USA
7/18/2012  1:36 AM
Interesting read. Thanks for posting.
https:// It's not so hard.
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
7/18/2012  2:02 AM
That was interesting, but it was the Knicks themselves that suggested that they would match any contract for Lin. They're capoligists should've been aware of every conceivable contract that could be presented including both of the options Houston had on offer. It's no secret what the Rockets could offer Lin and the Knicks pretended that they would be willing to handle any of them.

This was all a ruse. The Knicks didn't really have faith in Lin or else they never would've given Lin a chance to be taken away. IF they were 100% sure of Lin they rap him up on day one and move on. They wanted Lin to get a big offer so that they could get off easy in turning it down. How else do you explain the change of position? They told him to shop knowing he could come back with a huge offer so clearly they had to in truth have wanted Lin to sign somewhere else. That's fine, but just don't lie to us and make it seem like you're upset about the money. It wasn't the money!!! They knew full well that a team could overpay just as the Raptors did with Landry!!! This is B.S.

Woody didn't really want Lin or else he makes sure Grunwald locks him up and makes sure he's the starter. Instead they go after Nash, Kidd and then Felton. They had been working on Felton for a while too. Remember when Felton was at the Dolan 4th of July party and leaked that he was coming to NY? Everyone forgets that one, but it happened. This is the end result the Knicks wanted, no need to be ashamed or disingenuous about it.

TheloniusMonk
Posts: 21470
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/15/2004
Member: #705
USA
7/18/2012  2:07 AM
^^^^^Nah. With the first agreement that Lin/Houston had in place the Knicks WERE willing to match. After it was reported that Lin/Houston had agreed, Woodson promised that Lin would be back and started. Everything changed once Lin/Houston got together to renegotiate. So to suggest that the Knicks had him go out to get a deal so they could turn it down doesn't have much legs to it. They told all media outlets and even made public statements that the contract they agreed upon was going to be matched.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
7/18/2012  2:08 AM
nixluva wrote:That was interesting, but it was the Knicks themselves that suggested that they would match any contract for Lin. They're capoligists should've been aware of every conceivable contract that could be presented including both of the options Houston had on offer. It's no secret what the Rockets could offer Lin and the Knicks pretended that they would be willing to handle any of them.

This was all a ruse. The Knicks didn't really have faith in Lin or else they never would've given Lin a chance to be taken away. IF they were 100% sure of Lin they rap him up on day one and move on. They wanted Lin to get a big offer so that they could get off easy in turning it down. How else do you explain the change of position? They told him to shop knowing he could come back with a huge offer so clearly they had to in truth have wanted Lin to sign somewhere else. That's fine, but just don't lie to us and make it seem like you're upset about the money. It wasn't the money!!! They knew full well that a team could overpay just as the Raptors did with Landry!!! This is B.S.

Woody didn't really want Lin or else he makes sure Grunwald locks him up and makes sure he's the starter. Instead they go after Nash, Kidd and then Felton. They had been working on Felton for a while too. Remember when Felton was at the Dolan 4th of July party and leaked that he was coming to NY? Everyone forgets that one, but it happened. This is the end result the Knicks wanted, no need to be ashamed or disingenuous about it.

I am not sure but I might agree about Woodson being not committed to Lin. However, Lin was a Grunwald find and I think he remained a Knick because Glen sent him to the dl. I also think Dolan loves the idea of having big names on his team. I think the new cba made this contract unmatchable. No sign and trades, a 45 mil price tag and another guy with an almost untradeable contract. I think this was a business decision neccessitated by Lin and his reps having year three changed if you believe Isola etc.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
JamesKPolk
Posts: 21204
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/15/2012
Member: #4093

7/18/2012  2:58 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:That was interesting, but it was the Knicks themselves that suggested that they would match any contract for Lin. They're capoligists should've been aware of every conceivable contract that could be presented including both of the options Houston had on offer. It's no secret what the Rockets could offer Lin and the Knicks pretended that they would be willing to handle any of them.

This was all a ruse. The Knicks didn't really have faith in Lin or else they never would've given Lin a chance to be taken away. IF they were 100% sure of Lin they rap him up on day one and move on. They wanted Lin to get a big offer so that they could get off easy in turning it down. How else do you explain the change of position? They told him to shop knowing he could come back with a huge offer so clearly they had to in truth have wanted Lin to sign somewhere else. That's fine, but just don't lie to us and make it seem like you're upset about the money. It wasn't the money!!! They knew full well that a team could overpay just as the Raptors did with Landry!!! This is B.S.

Woody didn't really want Lin or else he makes sure Grunwald locks him up and makes sure he's the starter. Instead they go after Nash, Kidd and then Felton. They had been working on Felton for a while too. Remember when Felton was at the Dolan 4th of July party and leaked that he was coming to NY? Everyone forgets that one, but it happened. This is the end result the Knicks wanted, no need to be ashamed or disingenuous about it.

I am not sure but I might agree about Woodson being not committed to Lin. However, Lin was a Grunwald find and I think he remained a Knick because Glen sent him to the dl. I also think Dolan loves the idea of having big names on his team. I think the new cba made this contract unmatchable. No sign and trades, a 45 mil price tag and another guy with an almost untradeable contract. I think this was a business decision neccessitated by Lin and his reps having year three changed if you believe Isola etc.

The Knicks have no sign and trades with or without Lin. This was a business decision for Dolan only and nobody else. It doesn't help the franchise financially at all. It just saves Dolan luxury tax payments.

"Peace, plenty, and contentment reign throughout our borders, and our beloved country presents a sublime moral spectacle to the world." - James K Polk
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
7/18/2012  3:11 AM
JamesKPolk wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:That was interesting, but it was the Knicks themselves that suggested that they would match any contract for Lin. They're capoligists should've been aware of every conceivable contract that could be presented including both of the options Houston had on offer. It's no secret what the Rockets could offer Lin and the Knicks pretended that they would be willing to handle any of them.

This was all a ruse. The Knicks didn't really have faith in Lin or else they never would've given Lin a chance to be taken away. IF they were 100% sure of Lin they rap him up on day one and move on. They wanted Lin to get a big offer so that they could get off easy in turning it down. How else do you explain the change of position? They told him to shop knowing he could come back with a huge offer so clearly they had to in truth have wanted Lin to sign somewhere else. That's fine, but just don't lie to us and make it seem like you're upset about the money. It wasn't the money!!! They knew full well that a team could overpay just as the Raptors did with Landry!!! This is B.S.

Woody didn't really want Lin or else he makes sure Grunwald locks him up and makes sure he's the starter. Instead they go after Nash, Kidd and then Felton. They had been working on Felton for a while too. Remember when Felton was at the Dolan 4th of July party and leaked that he was coming to NY? Everyone forgets that one, but it happened. This is the end result the Knicks wanted, no need to be ashamed or disingenuous about it.

I am not sure but I might agree about Woodson being not committed to Lin. However, Lin was a Grunwald find and I think he remained a Knick because Glen sent him to the dl. I also think Dolan loves the idea of having big names on his team. I think the new cba made this contract unmatchable. No sign and trades, a 45 mil price tag and another guy with an almost untradeable contract. I think this was a business decision neccessitated by Lin and his reps having year three changed if you believe Isola etc.

The Knicks have no sign and trades with or without Lin. This was a business decision for Dolan only and nobody else. It doesn't help the franchise financially at all. It just saves Dolan luxury tax payments.

And that black-and-white interpretation of the Lin scenario is so unfair to the facts, not to mention impervious to the inconclusive nature of those facts, that it has made a mockery of the Lindecision -- if I may be afforded one last play on words in honor of what was an exhilarating, if brief and ultimately unrewarding period in New York basketball and sports cultural history.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
JamesKPolk
Posts: 21204
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/15/2012
Member: #4093

7/18/2012  3:15 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
JamesKPolk wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:That was interesting, but it was the Knicks themselves that suggested that they would match any contract for Lin. They're capoligists should've been aware of every conceivable contract that could be presented including both of the options Houston had on offer. It's no secret what the Rockets could offer Lin and the Knicks pretended that they would be willing to handle any of them.

This was all a ruse. The Knicks didn't really have faith in Lin or else they never would've given Lin a chance to be taken away. IF they were 100% sure of Lin they rap him up on day one and move on. They wanted Lin to get a big offer so that they could get off easy in turning it down. How else do you explain the change of position? They told him to shop knowing he could come back with a huge offer so clearly they had to in truth have wanted Lin to sign somewhere else. That's fine, but just don't lie to us and make it seem like you're upset about the money. It wasn't the money!!! They knew full well that a team could overpay just as the Raptors did with Landry!!! This is B.S.

Woody didn't really want Lin or else he makes sure Grunwald locks him up and makes sure he's the starter. Instead they go after Nash, Kidd and then Felton. They had been working on Felton for a while too. Remember when Felton was at the Dolan 4th of July party and leaked that he was coming to NY? Everyone forgets that one, but it happened. This is the end result the Knicks wanted, no need to be ashamed or disingenuous about it.

I am not sure but I might agree about Woodson being not committed to Lin. However, Lin was a Grunwald find and I think he remained a Knick because Glen sent him to the dl. I also think Dolan loves the idea of having big names on his team. I think the new cba made this contract unmatchable. No sign and trades, a 45 mil price tag and another guy with an almost untradeable contract. I think this was a business decision neccessitated by Lin and his reps having year three changed if you believe Isola etc.

The Knicks have no sign and trades with or without Lin. This was a business decision for Dolan only and nobody else. It doesn't help the franchise financially at all. It just saves Dolan luxury tax payments.

And that black-and-white interpretation of the Lin scenario is so unfair to the facts, not to mention impervious to the inconclusive nature of those facts, that it has made a mockery of the Lindecision -- if I may be afforded one last play on words in honor of what was an exhilarating, if brief and ultimately unrewarding period in New York basketball and sports cultural history.

What does your quote have to do with what I just said?

"Peace, plenty, and contentment reign throughout our borders, and our beloved country presents a sublime moral spectacle to the world." - James K Polk
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
7/18/2012  3:19 AM
JamesKPolk wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
JamesKPolk wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:That was interesting, but it was the Knicks themselves that suggested that they would match any contract for Lin. They're capoligists should've been aware of every conceivable contract that could be presented including both of the options Houston had on offer. It's no secret what the Rockets could offer Lin and the Knicks pretended that they would be willing to handle any of them.

This was all a ruse. The Knicks didn't really have faith in Lin or else they never would've given Lin a chance to be taken away. IF they were 100% sure of Lin they rap him up on day one and move on. They wanted Lin to get a big offer so that they could get off easy in turning it down. How else do you explain the change of position? They told him to shop knowing he could come back with a huge offer so clearly they had to in truth have wanted Lin to sign somewhere else. That's fine, but just don't lie to us and make it seem like you're upset about the money. It wasn't the money!!! They knew full well that a team could overpay just as the Raptors did with Landry!!! This is B.S.

Woody didn't really want Lin or else he makes sure Grunwald locks him up and makes sure he's the starter. Instead they go after Nash, Kidd and then Felton. They had been working on Felton for a while too. Remember when Felton was at the Dolan 4th of July party and leaked that he was coming to NY? Everyone forgets that one, but it happened. This is the end result the Knicks wanted, no need to be ashamed or disingenuous about it.

I am not sure but I might agree about Woodson being not committed to Lin. However, Lin was a Grunwald find and I think he remained a Knick because Glen sent him to the dl. I also think Dolan loves the idea of having big names on his team. I think the new cba made this contract unmatchable. No sign and trades, a 45 mil price tag and another guy with an almost untradeable contract. I think this was a business decision neccessitated by Lin and his reps having year three changed if you believe Isola etc.

The Knicks have no sign and trades with or without Lin. This was a business decision for Dolan only and nobody else. It doesn't help the franchise financially at all. It just saves Dolan luxury tax payments.

And that black-and-white interpretation of the Lin scenario is so unfair to the facts, not to mention impervious to the inconclusive nature of those facts, that it has made a mockery of the Lindecision -- if I may be afforded one last play on words in honor of what was an exhilarating, if brief and ultimately unrewarding period in New York basketball and sports cultural history.

What does your quote have to do with what I just said?

I just got an iPod and can't quote for sh@t. My plan was to highlight the part of the article that gave reasons why Lin's situation wasn't a black and white issue.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
franco12
Posts: 34069
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 2/19/2004
Member: #599
USA
7/18/2012  7:21 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
JamesKPolk wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
JamesKPolk wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:That was interesting, but it was the Knicks themselves that suggested that they would match any contract for Lin. They're capoligists should've been aware of every conceivable contract that could be presented including both of the options Houston had on offer. It's no secret what the Rockets could offer Lin and the Knicks pretended that they would be willing to handle any of them.

This was all a ruse. The Knicks didn't really have faith in Lin or else they never would've given Lin a chance to be taken away. IF they were 100% sure of Lin they rap him up on day one and move on. They wanted Lin to get a big offer so that they could get off easy in turning it down. How else do you explain the change of position? They told him to shop knowing he could come back with a huge offer so clearly they had to in truth have wanted Lin to sign somewhere else. That's fine, but just don't lie to us and make it seem like you're upset about the money. It wasn't the money!!! They knew full well that a team could overpay just as the Raptors did with Landry!!! This is B.S.

Woody didn't really want Lin or else he makes sure Grunwald locks him up and makes sure he's the starter. Instead they go after Nash, Kidd and then Felton. They had been working on Felton for a while too. Remember when Felton was at the Dolan 4th of July party and leaked that he was coming to NY? Everyone forgets that one, but it happened. This is the end result the Knicks wanted, no need to be ashamed or disingenuous about it.

I am not sure but I might agree about Woodson being not committed to Lin. However, Lin was a Grunwald find and I think he remained a Knick because Glen sent him to the dl. I also think Dolan loves the idea of having big names on his team. I think the new cba made this contract unmatchable. No sign and trades, a 45 mil price tag and another guy with an almost untradeable contract. I think this was a business decision neccessitated by Lin and his reps having year three changed if you believe Isola etc.

The Knicks have no sign and trades with or without Lin. This was a business decision for Dolan only and nobody else. It doesn't help the franchise financially at all. It just saves Dolan luxury tax payments.

And that black-and-white interpretation of the Lin scenario is so unfair to the facts, not to mention impervious to the inconclusive nature of those facts, that it has made a mockery of the Lindecision -- if I may be afforded one last play on words in honor of what was an exhilarating, if brief and ultimately unrewarding period in New York basketball and sports cultural history.

What does your quote have to do with what I just said?

I just got an iPod and can't quote for sh@t. My plan was to highlight the part of the article that gave reasons why Lin's situation wasn't a black and white issue.


Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is clearly black and white,

Simple - the Knicks match the contract.

If there is a personality issue, then the Knicks trade him January of 2013. Crap, you could keep him on ice the whole friggin time. You get back at least and ending contract and draft picks. Dallas, Orlando, Miami, Toronto- plenty of teams you could easily move him to.

If there is no personality issue, and they keep him, but is a bust, then they waive him and spread the $14M cap hit over three years. Dolan has blown bigger money on worst things.

If there is no personality issue, and the keep him, and his play is Linsane, guess what- he is worth every cent you pay in the luxury tax, and maybe you find a taker for one of the other big three contracts we have before the tax hit.

How the heck is that not clear, rational thinking?

earthmansurfer
Posts: 24005
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2005
Member: #858
Germany
7/18/2012  7:30 AM
franco12 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
JamesKPolk wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
JamesKPolk wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:That was interesting, but it was the Knicks themselves that suggested that they would match any contract for Lin. They're capoligists should've been aware of every conceivable contract that could be presented including both of the options Houston had on offer. It's no secret what the Rockets could offer Lin and the Knicks pretended that they would be willing to handle any of them.

This was all a ruse. The Knicks didn't really have faith in Lin or else they never would've given Lin a chance to be taken away. IF they were 100% sure of Lin they rap him up on day one and move on. They wanted Lin to get a big offer so that they could get off easy in turning it down. How else do you explain the change of position? They told him to shop knowing he could come back with a huge offer so clearly they had to in truth have wanted Lin to sign somewhere else. That's fine, but just don't lie to us and make it seem like you're upset about the money. It wasn't the money!!! They knew full well that a team could overpay just as the Raptors did with Landry!!! This is B.S.

Woody didn't really want Lin or else he makes sure Grunwald locks him up and makes sure he's the starter. Instead they go after Nash, Kidd and then Felton. They had been working on Felton for a while too. Remember when Felton was at the Dolan 4th of July party and leaked that he was coming to NY? Everyone forgets that one, but it happened. This is the end result the Knicks wanted, no need to be ashamed or disingenuous about it.

I am not sure but I might agree about Woodson being not committed to Lin. However, Lin was a Grunwald find and I think he remained a Knick because Glen sent him to the dl. I also think Dolan loves the idea of having big names on his team. I think the new cba made this contract unmatchable. No sign and trades, a 45 mil price tag and another guy with an almost untradeable contract. I think this was a business decision neccessitated by Lin and his reps having year three changed if you believe Isola etc.

The Knicks have no sign and trades with or without Lin. This was a business decision for Dolan only and nobody else. It doesn't help the franchise financially at all. It just saves Dolan luxury tax payments.

And that black-and-white interpretation of the Lin scenario is so unfair to the facts, not to mention impervious to the inconclusive nature of those facts, that it has made a mockery of the Lindecision -- if I may be afforded one last play on words in honor of what was an exhilarating, if brief and ultimately unrewarding period in New York basketball and sports cultural history.

What does your quote have to do with what I just said?

I just got an iPod and can't quote for sh@t. My plan was to highlight the part of the article that gave reasons why Lin's situation wasn't a black and white issue.


Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is clearly black and white,

Simple - the Knicks match the contract.

If there is a personality issue, then the Knicks trade him January of 2013. Crap, you could keep him on ice the whole friggin time. You get back at least and ending contract and draft picks. Dallas, Orlando, Miami, Toronto- plenty of teams you could easily move him to.

If there is no personality issue, and they keep him, but is a bust, then they waive him and spread the $14M cap hit over three years. Dolan has blown bigger money on worst things.

If there is no personality issue, and the keep him, and his play is Linsane, guess what- he is worth every cent you pay in the luxury tax, and maybe you find a taker for one of the other big three contracts we have before the tax hit.

How the heck is that not clear, rational thinking?

You highlighted what most of us just don't get. How could we let him walk for nothing? Just boggles the mind. He was my favorite player by a mile, many here have said the same.

We could have moved him for something in year 3 if need be to a team under the cap. But more preferably we could just have traded Stat. There is that stretch provision to think about two, but it only works on players signed after the new CBA.

Worst decision in Knicks history. You don't let talent like that walk. Only 25 games - I take Magics comments along with all the other professional eyes who said Lin was special.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
7/18/2012  7:53 AM
Lin was special because New York Is special.

Take away the crowd, the media and the rumble under The Garden and you got nothing but an average basketball player.

Let him go 4-13 on a losing team in Houston at $8M per year and lets see how many fans are clamoring for Linsanity t-shirts.

Just win Baby

once a knick always a knick
KnicksFE
Posts: 20634
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/13/2011
Member: #3561

7/18/2012  7:59 AM
earthmansurfer wrote:
franco12 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
JamesKPolk wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
JamesKPolk wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:That was interesting, but it was the Knicks themselves that suggested that they would match any contract for Lin. They're capoligists should've been aware of every conceivable contract that could be presented including both of the options Houston had on offer. It's no secret what the Rockets could offer Lin and the Knicks pretended that they would be willing to handle any of them.

This was all a ruse. The Knicks didn't really have faith in Lin or else they never would've given Lin a chance to be taken away. IF they were 100% sure of Lin they rap him up on day one and move on. They wanted Lin to get a big offer so that they could get off easy in turning it down. How else do you explain the change of position? They told him to shop knowing he could come back with a huge offer so clearly they had to in truth have wanted Lin to sign somewhere else. That's fine, but just don't lie to us and make it seem like you're upset about the money. It wasn't the money!!! They knew full well that a team could overpay just as the Raptors did with Landry!!! This is B.S.

Woody didn't really want Lin or else he makes sure Grunwald locks him up and makes sure he's the starter. Instead they go after Nash, Kidd and then Felton. They had been working on Felton for a while too. Remember when Felton was at the Dolan 4th of July party and leaked that he was coming to NY? Everyone forgets that one, but it happened. This is the end result the Knicks wanted, no need to be ashamed or disingenuous about it.

I am not sure but I might agree about Woodson being not committed to Lin. However, Lin was a Grunwald find and I think he remained a Knick because Glen sent him to the dl. I also think Dolan loves the idea of having big names on his team. I think the new cba made this contract unmatchable. No sign and trades, a 45 mil price tag and another guy with an almost untradeable contract. I think this was a business decision neccessitated by Lin and his reps having year three changed if you believe Isola etc.

The Knicks have no sign and trades with or without Lin. This was a business decision for Dolan only and nobody else. It doesn't help the franchise financially at all. It just saves Dolan luxury tax payments.

And that black-and-white interpretation of the Lin scenario is so unfair to the facts, not to mention impervious to the inconclusive nature of those facts, that it has made a mockery of the Lindecision -- if I may be afforded one last play on words in honor of what was an exhilarating, if brief and ultimately unrewarding period in New York basketball and sports cultural history.

What does your quote have to do with what I just said?

I just got an iPod and can't quote for sh@t. My plan was to highlight the part of the article that gave reasons why Lin's situation wasn't a black and white issue.


Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is clearly black and white,

Simple - the Knicks match the contract.

If there is a personality issue, then the Knicks trade him January of 2013. Crap, you could keep him on ice the whole friggin time. You get back at least and ending contract and draft picks. Dallas, Orlando, Miami, Toronto- plenty of teams you could easily move him to.

If there is no personality issue, and they keep him, but is a bust, then they waive him and spread the $14M cap hit over three years. Dolan has blown bigger money on worst things.

If there is no personality issue, and the keep him, and his play is Linsane, guess what- he is worth every cent you pay in the luxury tax, and maybe you find a taker for one of the other big three contracts we have before the tax hit.

How the heck is that not clear, rational thinking?

You highlighted what most of us just don't get. How could we let him walk for nothing? Just boggles the mind. He was my favorite player by a mile, many here have said the same.

We could have moved him for something in year 3 if need be to a team under the cap. But more preferably we could just have traded Stat. There is that stretch provision to think about two, but it only works on players signed after the new CBA.

Worst decision in Knicks history. You don't let talent like that walk. Only 25 games - I take Magics comments along with all the other professional eyes who said Lin was special.

I agree, more than money or basketball, letting Lin walk was a personal and emotional decision by Dolan, think about this, Lin’s offer sheet went from 19 million (which the Knicks said were going to match) to 25 million, 6 million more. Yet two weeks ago Dolan sent two million to the Rockets to cover for Douglas contract and last week he sent 1 million to Portland to cover for Jeffries, Dolan also paid the two million remaining in Balkman’s contract when he was released by the Knicks last February.
In the last six months Dolan paid 5 million to three guys to play for other teams. Does that really make any sense?

joec32033
Posts: 30612
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #583
USA
7/18/2012  8:12 AM
misterearl wrote:Lin was special because New York Is special.

Take away the crowd, the media and the rumble under The Garden and you got nothing but an average basketball player.

Let him go 4-13 on a losing team in Houston at $8M per year and lets see how many fans are clamoring for Linsanity t-shirts.

Just win Baby


Your right. You take away all that and you get Isiah Thomas in Sacramento. Remember him? He put up numbers as good as Lin for about the same amount of time.

~You can't run from who you are.~
fishmike
Posts: 53851
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
7/18/2012  8:40 AM
we got Melo. Melo >>>> Linsanity
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Berger article on Lin to rockets

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy