smackeddog wrote:

callmened wrote:The birds rights case will be decided on wed. Most people seem to think the inion will NOT win...thereforeknicks must use their cap money to retain lin

If thats the case...we are left with vet minimums.i would love to sign odom and/or cmaby and udrich as a back up. Looks like felton would want more money. Nash or dragic is a pipe dram. M

What do you guys think for vet min options?

I remember reading that although the hearing will take place on wednesday, we probably won't get a decision for a week or two (arbitrators like to take a few days to make it look like they're thinking really hard), so don't get too excited!

With our luck, there is no way in hell we win, even though I honestly believe that players who are picked up off waivers should keep their bird rights.

However either outcome has its advantages and disadvantages. If we lose, players know we have no money available, so maybe Novak and JR or one or two vets sign for bargain contracts til next season. Also we stay below the max cap (things get nasty once you exceed the cap by a certain amount) and we get the MLE next year.

Winning means we can sign all our players, but JR Smith is a goner unless we give him the MLE (to be honest I think he's gone anyway- probably to the Nets), plus a good contributor for the MLE- gives us a real chance if we use it wisely. However it'll be the last time we can really sign anyone- we'll be in the max cap territory, and will be screwed if we spent our money unwisely- we'll have zero flexibility to do anything for 3 seasons.

So it's not the clear cut win/lose situation we initially though it was. I don't think the ruling will go our way though.

very good prediction with the way the Net's seems to love to pick up our players.
JR wants to get a good contract while staying in New York/Jersey close to his home, it will make much sense if he can get a good offer to stay in Bklyn.

Although Camby and Odom are no longer young, I don't see them signing for the veterans minimum, especially Camby because the past decade he always says he wants to stay with the team
that can extend him, while he gets traded time after time. It would be a no brainer if we can sign these guys to vet minimum deals, but I think it is less likely that they would sign for the minium than JR Smith not opting out....

The thing about this early bird rights is, we must be a little less than 70m to be able to actually have a MLE and a LLE to use, even if we can retain Lin and Novak, if the ruling goes in favor for us. That is why I think Field rumors are popping up, because we know we have to add much more talent to our core, and every contract makes a difference.
With Balkman and TD, eating a good portion of the salary cap, with our big 3 in ATM, Amare, Tyson, and Melo...

Fields is not a SG and he is SF, unfortunately, we will have to make some cuts, especially if he is going to cost more than 1-2m to keep, given our salary restrictions...
Truth is, for that price, he can be a great role player, but he isn't a good fit with what we need.
If he develops a consistent shot, especially if can develop 3 point shot consistently, he would be a great steal for a team.
While he still won't be able to defend SG's on a nightly basis and needs a team that is willing to move the bball, with shooters, and guards with the ability to penetrate to compliment his game.
More importantly, he plays the same position as Melo, and does not seem to fit well with Melo's style of Iso ball....

sacrifices will have to be made, I think we would have to consider trading him if we can get a pick out of him *maybe with the Dallas two 2nd rounders*
If we can keep him at 1m, he would be cost efficient, but his skills and physical limitations/skills at SG are lacking.
He has improved a lot and will probably improve even more, but Lin, our MLE, and LLE, would be our #1 priorities this summer and next season.
With all these nice role players in this draft, they can fit better than Fields at SG for us.

callmened wrote:Are you implying thats the knicks offseason depends on fields?

no, I am saying even if we win the early bird rights for Lin, it doesn't mean we gain the MLE and LLE.
Tax paying teams do not get the FULL MLE and LLE to use.
So being that our make up for next years roster is

Melo 19,450.000
Amare 19,948.000
Tyson 13,604.188
================
53,002,188m

53,002.188m TOTAL

Iman $1,680,360m
TD 2,077.670
Balkman $1,675,000
===================
5,433,030m

58,435.218 TOTAL

Jorts 762.195
Jordan 762.195
2nd round pick *48* 500k
=========================
2,000.000m

60,435.218 TOTAL

700.000
700.000
700.000
=================
2,100.000 *CAP HOLD for 12 players, so 3 players, cause Balkman's spot doesn't count, depending on who extends, opts out*

62,535.218

JR Smith $2,500,000
Lin
Novak
Fields

depending on who we retain and how much we pay them, will be the difference of having the FULL MLE to use and the LLE, need at about 68m with 10 roster spots.
There are 4 players here, with Lin, the only person assured a spot, but at what price, affects our ability to add talent.
Management obviously cannot keep all 3 other players, outside of Lin,

IF

they intend to use the MLE and LLE.

So its not about Fields, its about our cap situation, and our needs to fill, which Fields in the end isn't a need.

mrKnickShot wrote:

RonRon wrote:really? I think it makes sense that we should get his bird rights? At the very least a 50% chance...

Stern said he thinks the NBA will win, thats a bad sign.

Stern has to say that. But language of the agreement is everything in this case. The only thing going for the union is that it's completely unfair for Lin and Novaks bird rights to go away before they were outright free agents, which was the case when we picked them up. if the judge sees this and how it relates to the other bird right rules in the CBA then it's up to his/her interpretation.

Bonn1997 wrote:It hurts the owners (whom Stern represents) because they have to spend more.

exactly, that is what it is about...

The owners feel the need to have leverage over players and not threatened the only way around.
Also punishing "tax paying teams" and their abilities to acquire talent with the new CBA.

We are very much hated by many teams in the League, with the way Dolan tries to buy everything off.
Not many teams have the ability to throw millions like it is pennies and after making poor decisions, can still make a profit.

I think it is going to be tough for Grunweld in terms of trading.
The league just hates us, part of the reason why Walsh had trouble getting good trades, and why we over payed for some of the trades.

It just makes sense to me, that we should be entitled to their bird rights, its up to us to give them the raise or not.
Unless you clear waivers, but if you get picked up off the waiver wire, the players must honor the contract of whoever picks them up.
So I don't see why the players should lose any benefits, they had no choice in the matter.

In a sense, its like of a business gets bought out by a corporation.
If a employee is under contract, and they are entitled to a raise after each quarter, written under the contract.
Would it be "fair" to say "joe smoe, you have continued to excel in your job and make much $ for the company but we can't give you that raise because its under the law...."

Anji wrote:How does bird rights transferring hurt the owners??? Bird rigths are there to protect teams and owners from losing players.