1. Get the ball up the court quickly. This doesn't mean you have to be running SSOL speed! Just don't go so slow that you use up the 8 seconds you have to get over half court. Even Baron and Bibby are capable of this. Don't pound the ball into the ground either pass it or start a PnR and get into the motion set. KEEP IT MOVING!!!

2. Spread the floor and get into motion! Once you spread the floor and look to get the ball to Melo or set a pick it's not necessary to always hold the ball and look to go ISO right away. Run the set and move the ball 1st and then come back to the ISO after at least one series of passes to move the defense.

Here are some pics to demonstrate just what i'm talking about. When Woody went back to the MDA sets after the team had basically come to a dead stop offensively it worked very well. One particular game was against Boston:

Spread the floor

Get Player Movement and Ball Movement

Here's the video to further show how well it can work if well executed. You must keep proper spacing and make good quick passes. Moving without the ball is essential. There's less bumping into each other because they're running actual plays!!!

Playing in a team oriented style isn't going to hurt Melo at all in fact it will free him up and his teammates will be able to give him help. He'll still get off and get ISO looks, but it will be easier if the defense is also worried about the rest of the team scoring. Keeping everyone moving is a huge key to making it work. I know that most of the Knick fans think that MDA was bad for Melo and the Knicks, but my contention has always been that wanting the team to play TEAM oriented BB was for the good of the team and if Melo buys in it will work as it did in this game and a few others that they went to this. Problem is that Woody hasn't been fully committed to this and so the team lapses back into standing around and ISO ball.

Just forwarded to Woodson. I wish we could have done this before game 1. It's also a pity that we don't have a PG that can handle the stagnation issue (which I very very much believe is a huge issue) - perhaps you can suggest one.

mrKnickShot wrote::FWD mike.woodson@cabevision.com

Just forwarded to Woodson. I wish we could have done this before game 1. It's also a pity that we don't have a PG that can handle the stagnation issue (which I very very much believe is a huge issue) - perhaps you can suggest one.

Clearly you didn't notice that Bibby could easily start the play with a Pick from Tyson or STAT. I'd ask you to take a look at the rest of the floor when the play is progressing. Notice how JR and Novak are moving at the same time as TYson and you can see that this forces the defense to chase and not be able to just focus on Melo or double Bibby. IF they do dbl Bibby it's up to his teammates to come out a show so that he has someone to pass to at an easy angle. But overall the spacing of the floor in such a drastic manner as shown in the pics I posted is what creates the problem for the defense. You're making them defend over a larger area of the court instead of packing it in with all of our players inside the 3pt line and in the paint bumping into each other.

See I put the pictures in there just for you!

Woody already has seen this work cuz he did it for a couple of games before he basically went back to not calling set plays.

mrKnickShot wrote:

ATrain wrote:In my opinion, this just proves my point and others on this board that Amar'e needs to come off the bench. There is much more spacing with just Melo and Tyson.

I think that there are many of us who share that opinion.

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote::FWD mike.woodson@cabevision.com

Just forwarded to Woodson. I wish we could have done this before game 1. It's also a pity that we don't have a PG that can handle the stagnation issue (which I very very much believe is a huge issue) - perhaps you can suggest one.

Clearly you didn't notice that Bibby could easily start the play with a Pick from Tyson or STAT. I'd ask you to take a look at the rest of the floor when the play is progressing. Notice how JR and Novak are moving at the same time as TYson and you can see that this forces the defense to chase and not be able to just focus on Melo or double Bibby. IF they do dbl Bibby it's up to his teammates to come out a show so that he has someone to pass to at an easy angle. But overall the spacing of the floor in such a drastic manner as shown in the pics I posted is what creates the problem for the defense. You're making them defend over a larger area of the court instead of packing it in with all of our players inside the 3pt line and in the paint bumping into each other.

See I put the pictures in there just for you!

Woody already has seen this work cuz he did it for a couple of games before he basically went back to not calling set plays.

Wow!! We might actually agree here

I have been the most adamant proponent of playing Bibby over BD. BD sucks and could not even make it into your pictures.

The offense is definitely better with Bibby in there - I am guessing that Woody is playing BD over Bibby because he is a defensive minded coach and BD is a far far far better defender. It's the better of the two evils. Though, I hate it.

The problem with Bibby too is that he is limited in the number of minutes that he can play (because he already has great grand kids) and teams force him into switching onto one of their bigs and he gets demolished.

Bibby can't throw the ball in the ocean if he was sitting on a boat at this point in his career but he is miles better for the offensive flow than BD.

Woody has said many times that we have to get into our offense quicker (referring to how long it takes BD to get up the court and into the offense) and after each time that he says it, BD says "its on me - I have to get the ball up the court quicker)

Bibby also moves the ball much quicker, makes better decisions, and does not still view himself as an offensive star.

So, what do we do when BD is in there?

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote::FWD mike.woodson@cabevision.com

Just forwarded to Woodson. I wish we could have done this before game 1. It's also a pity that we don't have a PG that can handle the stagnation issue (which I very very much believe is a huge issue) - perhaps you can suggest one.

Clearly you didn't notice that Bibby could easily start the play with a Pick from Tyson or STAT. I'd ask you to take a look at the rest of the floor when the play is progressing. Notice how JR and Novak are moving at the same time as TYson and you can see that this forces the defense to chase and not be able to just focus on Melo or double Bibby. IF they do dbl Bibby it's up to his teammates to come out a show so that he has someone to pass to at an easy angle. But overall the spacing of the floor in such a drastic manner as shown in the pics I posted is what creates the problem for the defense. You're making them defend over a larger area of the court instead of packing it in with all of our players inside the 3pt line and in the paint bumping into each other.

See I put the pictures in there just for you!

Woody already has seen this work cuz he did it for a couple of games before he basically went back to not calling set plays.

Wow!! We might actually agree here

I have been the most adamant proponent of playing Bibby over BD. BD sucks and could not even make it into your pictures.

The offense is definitely better with Bibby in there - I am guessing that Woody is playing BD over Bibby because he is a defensive minded coach and BD is a far far far better defender. It's the better of the two evils. Though, I hate it.

The problem with Bibby too is that he is limited in the number of minutes that he can play (because he already has great grand kids) and teams force him into switching onto one of their bigs and he gets demolished.

Bibby can't throw the ball in the ocean if he was sitting on a boat at this point in his career but he is miles better for the offensive flow than BD.

Woody has said many times that we have to get into our offense quicker (referring to how long it takes BD to get up the court and into the offense) and after each time that he says it, BD says "its on me - I have to get the ball up the court quicker)

Bibby also moves the ball much quicker, makes better decisions, and does not still view himself as an offensive star.

So, what do we do when BD is in there?

I get the feeling that Woody isn't really using any kind of metrics to see what plays actually work and what lineups have been most effective. Bibby isn't much to look at as a player, but he actually executes all that he needs to and gets the play started. Baron wants to pound the ball and look for some spectacular pass to make. Baron slows the offense down and everyone starts standing and watching. Baron IMO is more than capable of running the exact same plays, because it doesn't really require an amazingly athletic PG. You just have to call the play, dribble around the PnR defense and pass. Someone is going to be open in this set because the defense is going to try and take something away which will require a double team and with the floor this spread if your passing the ball it's going to be faster than the defense can react and that's when STAT or Tyson etc can slip into the paint for an easy dunk.

In these spread offensive sets, you're not running PnR to score off of it as much as you're moving the defense around and getting them to cover greater distances. Look at how far the defenders have to go in order to get to each of our players.

ATrain wrote:
Also, another reason the floor is so spaced out is because you have 4 3pt shooting threats out there. JR is going to fill in once Novak rotates up. If we replace Amar'e for JR, I'm staying within the 3pt line to guard him. If he flashes, good because I'm already inside waiting on him. I see where you're going with this but to me, adding Amar'e in this equation only makes the oppositions help defense a little stronger.

Right now, Amar'e is our Lamar Odom, while Tyson, Melo, and whoever is starting at the 3 are our Bynum-Gasol-Poor man's Kobe.

The only thing that really needs to happen is to change the rotation so that STAT comes out early in the 1st and thus you're only playing with them all in there for short stretches.

ATrain wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ATrain wrote:
Also, another reason the floor is so spaced out is because you have 4 3pt shooting threats out there. JR is going to fill in once Novak rotates up. If we replace Amar'e for JR, I'm staying within the 3pt line to guard him. If he flashes, good because I'm already inside waiting on him. I see where you're going with this but to me, adding Amar'e in this equation only makes the oppositions help defense a little stronger.

Right now, Amar'e is our Lamar Odom, while Tyson, Melo, and whoever is starting at the 3 are our Bynum-Gasol-Poor man's Kobe.

I do understand that it hasn't been working, but then again Kobe, Gasol and Bynum manage to make it work. You have to stay disciplined in terms of spacing and running thru the progressions of the play. It doesn't matter if that defender stays with STAT as he moves around under the basket, that only creates space and distraction for others to get off good shots or to penetrate and dump off to STAT.

The only thing that really needs to happen is to change the rotation so that STAT comes out early in the 1st and thus you're only playing with them all in there for short stretches.

I totally agree with letting him come out early if we absolutely must start the three. I also agree with your solutions and what your're trying to say but they aren't short term solutions. For right now, in the playoffs, you have to stick with what is working and right now Melo at the four with no Amar'e is working. Hell, Melo at the four with Amar'e as center has worked. Amar'e as the five with no Melo or Chandler has worked. Everything but the three of them in together. If they want to win this series, they need to go back to what works, not what can work, or what has potential to work.

They played alot of Amare at the 5 with Melo at the 4 yesterday.

It did not work. Not that it is on Amare that it did not work - nothing worked.

ATrain wrote:In my opinion, this just proves my point and others on this board that Amar'e needs to come off the bench. There is much more spacing with just Melo and Tyson.

CrushAlot wrote:

ATrain wrote:In my opinion, this just proves my point and others on this board that Amar'e needs to come off the bench. There is much more spacing with just Melo and Tyson.

I wonder if Amare starts at the 5 with Tyson out. Amare looked pretty lively in the last regular season game. The Knicks need Tyson but Amare has been more effective at the 5 since he has been in ny. I agree that with Tyson bringing Amare off the bench makes sense.

I don't know ... We are all forgetting that they played perfect basketball, we didn't, and they are much much much better than us.

I don't think there is much to do - we just hope that they play better next game and the Heat play worse (and don't shoot 60-70 pct out of the gate).

Miami needs to get some credit no?

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote::FWD mike.woodson@cabevision.com

Just forwarded to Woodson. I wish we could have done this before game 1. It's also a pity that we don't have a PG that can handle the stagnation issue (which I very very much believe is a huge issue) - perhaps you can suggest one.

Clearly you didn't notice that Bibby could easily start the play with a Pick from Tyson or STAT. I'd ask you to take a look at the rest of the floor when the play is progressing. Notice how JR and Novak are moving at the same time as TYson and you can see that this forces the defense to chase and not be able to just focus on Melo or double Bibby. IF they do dbl Bibby it's up to his teammates to come out a show so that he has someone to pass to at an easy angle. But overall the spacing of the floor in such a drastic manner as shown in the pics I posted is what creates the problem for the defense. You're making them defend over a larger area of the court instead of packing it in with all of our players inside the 3pt line and in the paint bumping into each other.

See I put the pictures in there just for you!

Woody already has seen this work cuz he did it for a couple of games before he basically went back to not calling set plays.

Wow!! We might actually agree here

I have been the most adamant proponent of playing Bibby over BD. BD sucks and could not even make it into your pictures.

The offense is definitely better with Bibby in there - I am guessing that Woody is playing BD over Bibby because he is a defensive minded coach and BD is a far far far better defender. It's the better of the two evils. Though, I hate it.

The problem with Bibby too is that he is limited in the number of minutes that he can play (because he already has great grand kids) and teams force him into switching onto one of their bigs and he gets demolished.

Bibby can't throw the ball in the ocean if he was sitting on a boat at this point in his career but he is miles better for the offensive flow than BD.

Woody has said many times that we have to get into our offense quicker (referring to how long it takes BD to get up the court and into the offense) and after each time that he says it, BD says "its on me - I have to get the ball up the court quicker)

Bibby also moves the ball much quicker, makes better decisions, and does not still view himself as an offensive star.

So, what do we do when BD is in there?

bibby can't hit a shot anymore and he moves like a 85 year old man.... He is a waste..

sending amare to the bench is not going to happen, but some of us already knew he and melo were not a good fit.

melo has to work harder off the ball to get the ball.. the heat are too good defensively to just let him stand there and post on the elbow..

Iso ball is easy to defend...

Thats exactly it! Bibby does not need to hit his shot to help them. He needs to get them to move the ball better. Its his defense and his minutes that are the issue or else this would be a no brainer.

What does Amare need to do to help them? 4 rebounds? Not really gonna do it.

Melo was not just in ISO. He tried/They tried many different ways to get him the ball.

ISO ball is extremely hard to defend - IF YOU CAN GET THE BALL IN THERE - thats why they were so desperate to deny.

What Melo does have to do is not shoot 3-15. 10 rebounds was nice though - It would be nice to see that from Amare