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Toney Douglas was not the problem
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subzero0
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3/4/2012  5:00 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/4/2012  5:01 PM
The problem was dribbling the ball up to the top of the key and passing the ball to Amare/Carmelo in the high post. This problem is why the Knicks lose games.

The motion offense stops and the players move out of the paint for Amare and Carmelo to have room to operate. This year Amare/Carmelo are shooting a horrible percentage when they receive the ball in the high post free throw line extended. When they shoot a bad percentage from the high post foul line extended the other knicks are not in rebounding position, because they haved moved out of the way to allow for a possible dribble drive from the high post. When Amare/Carmelo dribble drive, the interior defense does the obvious and collapses on them while the opposing front court players release. Anyone who is familiar with the Pat Riley "release-on-long-shot", this is pretty much what we are seeing from every other good defensive team we've faced. However, the twist is the opposing front court players get ready to sprint whenever the ball goes into Amare/Carmelo in the high post. Am I imagining this? Or has anyone else been thinking along the same lines?

This is why we were so unsuccesful with Toney Douglas just dribbling the ball up and giving Amare/Carmelo isolation in the high post. The inverse was true when Lin started breaking down the defense and passing out of it, we were successful and the motion offense was helping the knicks find the open man and keep the opposing front court honest on defense. I believe this is also why we are unsuccessful when Lin just dribbles the ball up and hands it to Amare/Carmelo high post free throw line extended.

Lin will turn into TD if he continues to do what he did in that Celtic game. He has to attack more and Amare/Carmelo have to cut down on these iso's. It is killing us. Has anyone else started noticing this?
AUTOADVERT
MarburyAnd1Crossover
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3/4/2012  5:02 PM
What is your conclusion, subzero0?
Carmelo Anthony is ANTI-BASKETBALL
FoeDiddy
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3/4/2012  5:05 PM
Nah the problem was TD lol
tj23
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3/4/2012  5:14 PM
It's both. Melo isnt effecient. Star has been horrible. Granted, it sucks they both are having their worst years in the SAME year. But im still not sure this iso game works. I believe isos can work, but you need a true superstar, which we don't have. But still, Douglas was horrible in every possible way. He can't create, make good decisions, finish that well, plus he lost his shot which was streaky in the 1st place, and he started to revert to his bad defensive habits from last year where he was probably our 2nd worst defender next to stat.
RoyBatty
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3/4/2012  5:51 PM
What frustrates me is that Lin is good enough for defenses to adjust to him. That should create some opportunity for other players. Failure to exploit that situation is the coaching staff's fault. And what's with all the crosscourt passes being picked off.... They seem to predictable.
Vmart
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3/4/2012  6:20 PM
Lin took two jumpers this game. He has to learn to shoot off the dribble better. Celtic basically took Lin's play making ability away. Took the drive away by jamming the paint when ever Lin took it to the paint. Way to many turnovers this game. Sloppy game.
subzero0
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3/4/2012  7:50 PM
FoeDiddy wrote:Nah the problem was TD lol

...yeah your right he was terrible.
nixluva
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3/4/2012  10:06 PM
TD may have been terrible, but it is true that the Knicks aren't playing fast enough. With the starters it's like they're playing old and slow and there's less north/south movement with STAT and Melo. I don't think that has to be the case. Lin is clearly trying to get those 2 guys going and it's taking away from his aggressiveness which is actually good for the team IMO. We need Lin to play the way he was playing. I don't like to see him defer to STAT and Melo so much. It slows down the offense and makes it much more predictable and guardable.
Uptown
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3/4/2012  10:25 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/4/2012  10:26 PM
nixluva wrote:TD may have been terrible, but it is true that the Knicks aren't playing fast enough. With the starters it's like they're playing old and slow and there's less north/south movement with STAT and Melo. I don't think that has to be the case. Lin is clearly trying to get those 2 guys going and it's taking away from his aggressiveness which is actually good for the team IMO. We need Lin to play the way he was playing. I don't like to see him defer to STAT and Melo so much. It slows down the offense and makes it much more predictable and guardable.

The game will always slow down in spots as it did when Stat and Melo were injured. Difference is, teams aren't allowing Lin to get all the way to the rim as he did previously because he is well scouted now. Today, Lin either couldn't finish because the Celts clogged the paint or he was trying to kick it back out but it was getting picked off by waiting defenders. I think Lin needs to work on a pull-up 10-12 footer, ala Paul. I think that will opne things up for him and his teammates when things slow down.

Several times when he over-penetrated and missed, the Celts had run outs going back the other way.
knicks1248
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3/4/2012  10:34 PM
We haven't lost a game when lin plays well, and this continues the MDA SYSTEM theory..Doesn't matter who's at pg..if they have a bad game where losing 10 out of 10 times
ES
mrKnickShot
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3/5/2012  12:53 AM
knicks1248 wrote:We haven't lost a game when lin plays well, and this continues the MDA SYSTEM theory..Doesn't matter who's at pg..if they have a bad game where losing 10 out of 10 times

So are you saying the system is good or bad?
DJMUSIC
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3/5/2012  2:21 AM
subzero0 wrote:The problem was dribbling the ball up to the top of the key and passing the ball to Amare/Carmelo in the high post. This problem is why the Knicks lose games.

The motion offense stops and the players move out of the paint for Amare and Carmelo to have room to operate. This year Amare/Carmelo are shooting a horrible percentage when they receive the ball in the high post free throw line extended. When they shoot a bad percentage from the high post foul line extended the other knicks are not in rebounding position, because they haved moved out of the way to allow for a possible dribble drive from the high post. When Amare/Carmelo dribble drive, the interior defense does the obvious and collapses on them while the opposing front court players release. Anyone who is familiar with the Pat Riley "release-on-long-shot", this is pretty much what we are seeing from every other good defensive team we've faced. However, the twist is the opposing front court players get ready to sprint whenever the ball goes into Amare/Carmelo in the high post. Am I imagining this? Or has anyone else been thinking along the same lines?

This is why we were so unsuccesful with Toney Douglas just dribbling the ball up and giving Amare/Carmelo isolation in the high post. The inverse was true when Lin started breaking down the defense and passing out of it, we were successful and the motion offense was helping the knicks find the open man and keep the opposing front court honest on defense. I believe this is also why we are unsuccessful when Lin just dribbles the ball up and hands it to Amare/Carmelo high post free throw line extended.

Lin will turn into TD if he continues to do what he did in that Celtic game. He has to attack more and Amare/Carmelo have to cut down on these iso's. It is killing us. Has anyone else started noticing this?


Toney D s_ _ -cks

And Carmelo at least at high post if the shot isnt going to be there he takes off to the basket for a hoop
and makes em' at times

Today the knicks didnt lose cause of Carmello
Celtics just a little better

Turntable Musiclover & Mix-Master-ologist
earthmansurfer
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3/5/2012  4:29 AM
Vmart wrote:Lin took two jumpers this game. He has to learn to shoot off the dribble better. Celtic basically took Lin's play making ability away. Took the drive away by jamming the paint when ever Lin took it to the paint. Way to many turnovers this game. Sloppy game.

Exactly and why? Why won't Lin keep defenses honest by taking more jumpers from mid range? He has shown he can hit them. I do love his aggressive drives but think he should mix things up, it will just get him better looks.

Regarding Douglas and Melo/Stat. It is frustrating to see the lack of ball movement AT TIMES. Things have improved but you can see it's a bit mechanical.I wish Melo would pass the ball quicker at times, I think that would help and I'm not ragging on him. I'm in support Melo mode, or trying to. Stats jumper is coming around, his defense still sucks and he's not sharp mentally on defense either. I wonder when we will see Douglas again, the guy was a GREAT scorer before than injury and his personal problems came up. Seriously, he can help us in a big way if he came back around. Luckily we have depth though.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
JamesLin
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3/5/2012  7:38 AM
You guys did see the game, right? Lin was in foul trouble since the beginning of the game. Therefore, no jump shots, no building up to get hot, no nothing, period. If Baron Davis didn't take over, we would've lost 10-20 points by end of 4th quarter instead of overtime. Lin was horrible today but that's because he was inexperienced. Boston knew how to take away his game by getting lots of T.O. from Lin and getting him into foul troubles early. The whole team did well as a whole, and Tyson Chandler did a marvelous job on the defense end and Iman was a stimulant to this team. The problem was not the team didn't go fast enough, they did, and then some. There was no perimeter defense overall on both sides. First half were just pass, shoot, pass, shoot, pass, intercepted, pass shoot. That was really fast on the scoring. The second half both teams decided to stop the uptempo for a while. Both teams did horrible and looked like as if they were fighting for next year's lottery pick.
Get busy living or get busy dying. ---- Andy Dufresne
subzero0
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3/5/2012  9:22 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/5/2012  9:23 AM
nixluva wrote:TD may have been terrible, but it is true that the Knicks aren't playing fast enough. With the starters it's like they're playing old and slow and there's less north/south movement with STAT and Melo. I don't think that has to be the case. Lin is clearly trying to get those 2 guys going and it's taking away from his aggressiveness which is actually good for the team IMO. We need Lin to play the way he was playing. I don't like to see him defer to STAT and Melo so much. It slows down the offense and makes it much more predictable and guardable.

Yea, I think you pretty much hit the nail on its head here. It seems almost as though when Amare/Carmelo came back, Lin adjusted to their games more than Amare/Carmelo tried to integrate themselves into the Knick offense that was allowing us to stack up w's.
Bonn1997
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3/5/2012  9:29 AM
He wasn't the problem but he was a problem.
ChuckBuck
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3/5/2012  9:44 AM
I don't get this thread title name. Toney Doodoo has been horrible this year, since getting offseason surgery, so clearly he was the problem. This thread should be renamed Jeremy Lin\Baron Davis take care of the damn ball and play some D on Rondo once in awhile!
DurzoBlint
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3/5/2012  10:27 AM
FoeDiddy wrote:Nah the problem was TD lol

how many times did we need to see DumdumDouglas run down the court, passing to no one while he runs in useless circles before chucking up a bad shot. Did I mentioned the "not passing to anyone" part or, the running around in stupid circles part? Because if I forgot I will repeat that he takes the ball, runs down the court, around in stupid circles until the shot clock is at 3before handing it off to ......Jared Jeffries on the perimeter.

Guy was to dumb to recognize that Amare and Melo should at least touch the rock before he starts his chucking spree.

the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
MarburyAnd1Crossover
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3/5/2012  3:33 PM
Toney hit like 400 threes last year on 45%, I think you let a guy that shoots so good YOU LET HIM RAIN THE STUFF!
Carmelo Anthony is ANTI-BASKETBALL
mrKnickShot
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3/5/2012  3:35 PM
So if its raining sh1t, don't you at some point need to pray that it stops raining?
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Toney Douglas was not the problem
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