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We need a PG yes... But we also just need better players
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Elite
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1/31/2012  4:21 AM
Can't win with Bill Walker, Toney Douglas, Jared Jeffries, Mike Bibby etc all playing MAJOR rolls. Just can't win.

At times more than 1 of these players on the floor at once... at times up to 3 ... AT THE SAME TIME!!!

Bill Walker should not be in a rotation of a Playoff team.

We need better players.

AUTOADVERT
misterearl
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1/31/2012  7:00 AM
2014

"I would rather play with (4) people and just get penalized all the way until we got to do something else, rather than play with 11 when I know that right now that person is not sold out to be a part of this team. It is more about them than it is about the team. Cannot play with them. Cannot win with them. Cannot coach with them. Can't do it. I want winners."

- Mike Singletary, San Francisco 49ers head coach

Elite - You called it. Our beloved Knicks have six roster spots that DESPERATELY need upgrading. The talent level around the NBA continues to pass us by and depending on table scraps is NEVER a championship strategy.

1. Baron Davis is a question mark.

2. Hoping for JR Smith and/ or Kenyon Martin (if either happens) is a game for twitter and headline writers.

3. NO NBA FRANCHISE is trading away its talent for dreck.

4. "What draft picks?"

5. Glen Grunwald is interim.

The process of restocking the roster with QUALITY depth, capable of making a playoff run to the ECF, will require 2 years. Minimum.

once a knick always a knick
Knixkik
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1/31/2012  7:47 AM
No doubt we are only 4 or 5 deep right now. We have to replace Douglas, Walker, and Jeffries in the rotation. We need a PG, a SG, and a backup big very badly. I'm hoping for possibly Davis and maybe JR Smith replacing Douglas and Walker this season in the rotation.
misterearl
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1/31/2012  8:03 AM
Knixkik wrote:No doubt we are only 4 or 5 deep right now. We have to replace Douglas, Walker, and Jeffries in the rotation. We need a PG, a SG, and a backup big very badly. I'm hoping for possibly Davis and maybe JR Smith replacing Douglas and Walker this season in the rotation.

Hope is not a strategy. We need TWO point guards. A quality sub at the three AND just ONE 6'10+ with a low post move to give Tyson Chandler a break. That is four spots, minimum that require retooling, rebuilding, restocking and replacing. Not to mention - UPgrading.

The league is moving forward with young talent, while we are hoping for retreads to save us?

Two more years Knixkik.

once a knick always a knick
Knixkik
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1/31/2012  8:05 AM
We need one PG before we need 2. This is the plan for now, obviously not the final result.
misterearl
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1/31/2012  8:11 AM
Knixkik wrote:We need one PG before we need 2. This is the plan for now, obviously not the final result.

Plan 9 From Outer Space

Knixkik - What "plan", specifically, are you referring to?

once a knick always a knick
franco12
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1/31/2012  8:35 AM
whether we need to improve the talent on the bench or not, the fact is that this team has underperformed.

Melo, Stat, Chandler - that was supposed to be a dominant front court.

How did we win with Charlie Ward, Chris Childs in the back court?

Charlie Ward couldn't hit a lay up on a tiny tikes hoop, let alone in an NBA game.

The injuries have hurt- Melo, Stat may still be recovering. Douglas and Iman, both hurt.

Yes, injuries have hurt.

eViL
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1/31/2012  9:16 AM
i thought all our role guys would actually improve dramatically with the presence of Starmelo. somehow they have all regressed. why did Boston's role players all improve after the team lined up their Big 3 and ours did the opposite???
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
loweyecue
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1/31/2012  9:44 AM
misterearl wrote:
Knixkik wrote:No doubt we are only 4 or 5 deep right now. We have to replace Douglas, Walker, and Jeffries in the rotation. We need a PG, a SG, and a backup big very badly. I'm hoping for possibly Davis and maybe JR Smith replacing Douglas and Walker this season in the rotation.

Hope is not a strategy. We need TWO point guards. A quality sub at the three AND just ONE 6'10+ with a low post move to give Tyson Chandler a break. That is four spots, minimum that require retooling, rebuilding, restocking and replacing. Not to mention - UPgrading.

The league is moving forward with young talent, while we are hoping for retreads to save us?

Two more years Knixkik.

hey that's my line!

But yeah we need all those players you talked about. We have no line of sight to what the long term plan is or what Grunwald is thinking. The idea that we have to win now because we have three star players is ridiculous. You don't win in the NBA unless you have a balanced team with star players and role players capable of playing both sides of the ball. How far we are from this is being cruelly exposed.

Getting a starting PG is step one on the plan, it's not the whole plan.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
misterearl
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1/31/2012  10:19 AM
loweyecue wrote:hey that's my line!

With most humble apology... the royalty check is in he mail

"Getting a starting PG is step one on the plan, it's not the whole plan."

How many months will the "whole plan" need?

once a knick always a knick
loweyecue
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1/31/2012  12:11 PM
misterearl wrote:
loweyecue wrote:hey that's my line!

With most humble apology... the royalty check is in he mail

"Getting a starting PG is step one on the plan, it's not the whole plan."

How many months will the "whole plan" need?

Well next time use ACH deposit , it's quicker.

I don't know how long it will take, I don't do the planning. I thought your 2014 timeline actually looked reasonable. Not sure if you were being sincere or sarcastic though.

I still support a planned approach over building through the draft. Hope is not a strategy.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
misterearl
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1/31/2012  1:27 PM
loweyecue - the 2014 was sincere.

1. Take an unflinching look at the Knicks roster in the context of Miami, Chicago and Philly.

2. Avoid any wet fantasy of "dreck for talent" imaginary solutions

3. Assess at the Knicks drafting position over the next two years and, with a straight face, anticipate all of those picks becoming instant rotation players.

once a knick always a knick
loweyecue
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1/31/2012  6:10 PM
misterearl wrote:loweyecue - the 2014 was sincere.

1. Take an unflinching look at the Knicks roster in the context of Miami, Chicago and Philly.

2. Avoid any wet fantasy of "dreck for talent" imaginary solutions

3. Assess at the Knicks drafting position over the next two years and, with a straight face, anticipate all of those picks becoming instant rotation players.

You don't need to convince me. I don't think we really have any assets outside of the big 3. Landry, Jorts and Shump are rotation players we need to keep. No one will give us a bag of chips for TD. China players may be our best prospects and then more amnesties next off season.

They should look at seriously asking Stat/Melo to reconfigure their contracts to free some cap.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
JCrusher
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1/31/2012  6:12 PM
loweyecue wrote:
misterearl wrote:loweyecue - the 2014 was sincere.

1. Take an unflinching look at the Knicks roster in the context of Miami, Chicago and Philly.

2. Avoid any wet fantasy of "dreck for talent" imaginary solutions

3. Assess at the Knicks drafting position over the next two years and, with a straight face, anticipate all of those picks becoming instant rotation players.

You don't need to convince me. I don't think we really have any assets outside of the big 3. Landry, Jorts and Shump are rotation players we need to keep. No one will give us a bag of chips for TD. China players may be our best prospects and then more amnesties next off season.

They should look at seriously asking Stat/Melo to reconfigure their contracts to free some cap.

I agree. I mean melo especially since the reasons he wouldn't wait until FA was because he wanted as much money as possible
y2zipper
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1/31/2012  6:27 PM
JCrusher wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
misterearl wrote:loweyecue - the 2014 was sincere.

1. Take an unflinching look at the Knicks roster in the context of Miami, Chicago and Philly.

2. Avoid any wet fantasy of "dreck for talent" imaginary solutions

3. Assess at the Knicks drafting position over the next two years and, with a straight face, anticipate all of those picks becoming instant rotation players.

You don't need to convince me. I don't think we really have any assets outside of the big 3. Landry, Jorts and Shump are rotation players we need to keep. No one will give us a bag of chips for TD. China players may be our best prospects and then more amnesties next off season.

They should look at seriously asking Stat/Melo to reconfigure their contracts to free some cap.

I agree. I mean melo especially since the reasons he wouldn't wait until FA was because he wanted as much money as possible

Why are people mad at Melo for trying to get a max contract? He wasn't going to free agency period.

I think the Knicks are two or three contributors and probably a new coach away from being a contender. Ideally one of those contributors (a starting point guard, really) comes from the mid-level in the offseason and the other comes for either the minimum or from the draft.

Knixkik
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1/31/2012  6:35 PM
misterearl wrote:
Knixkik wrote:We need one PG before we need 2. This is the plan for now, obviously not the final result.

Plan 9 From Outer Space

Knixkik - What "plan", specifically, are you referring to?


Plan is to upgrade the backcourt with Davis and possibly JR Smith. After that, we can determine how that effects results.
loweyecue
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1/31/2012  6:35 PM
y2zipper wrote:
JCrusher wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
misterearl wrote:loweyecue - the 2014 was sincere.

1. Take an unflinching look at the Knicks roster in the context of Miami, Chicago and Philly.

2. Avoid any wet fantasy of "dreck for talent" imaginary solutions

3. Assess at the Knicks drafting position over the next two years and, with a straight face, anticipate all of those picks becoming instant rotation players.

You don't need to convince me. I don't think we really have any assets outside of the big 3. Landry, Jorts and Shump are rotation players we need to keep. No one will give us a bag of chips for TD. China players may be our best prospects and then more amnesties next off season.

They should look at seriously asking Stat/Melo to reconfigure their contracts to free some cap.

I agree. I mean melo especially since the reasons he wouldn't wait until FA was because he wanted as much money as possible

Why are people mad at Melo for trying to get a max contract? He wasn't going to free agency period.

I think the Knicks are two or three contributors and probably a new coach away from being a contender. Ideally one of those contributors (a starting point guard, really) comes from the mid-level in the offseason and the other comes for either the minimum or from the draft.

Why do people always jump to conclusions? I am not mad at Melo getting his money. I would too. But if he wants to really win in NY he now has an opportunity to reconsider his money where there is no risk of losing a huge chunk because of the CBA. His contract is guaranteed, he can extend the term by a year and take less per, or however they can work that out. Same goes for STAT.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
RonRon
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1/31/2012  6:39 PM
y2zipper wrote:
JCrusher wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
misterearl wrote:loweyecue - the 2014 was sincere.

1. Take an unflinching look at the Knicks roster in the context of Miami, Chicago and Philly.

2. Avoid any wet fantasy of "dreck for talent" imaginary solutions

3. Assess at the Knicks drafting position over the next two years and, with a straight face, anticipate all of those picks becoming instant rotation players.

You don't need to convince me. I don't think we really have any assets outside of the big 3. Landry, Jorts and Shump are rotation players we need to keep. No one will give us a bag of chips for TD. China players may be our best prospects and then more amnesties next off season.

They should look at seriously asking Stat/Melo to reconfigure their contracts to free some cap.

I agree. I mean melo especially since the reasons he wouldn't wait until FA was because he wanted as much money as possible

Why are people mad at Melo for trying to get a max contract? He wasn't going to free agency period.

I think the Knicks are two or three contributors and probably a new coach away from being a contender. Ideally one of those contributors (a starting point guard, really) comes from the mid-level in the offseason and the other comes for either the minimum or from the draft.

because Melo and Dolan see it as a business.
We see it as fans and the chance to redeem ourselves for a pitiful decade, watching pick, after pick gone or a failure.
Melo could have let it be known in the public to give NY leverage, just like that guy in Rangers that signed with them in the off season instead of forcing a trade.
I am not a hockey guy, but I heard about it and respect that man, even though he might have screwed his past team in the process.

RonRon
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1/31/2012  6:41 PM
Knixkik wrote:
misterearl wrote:
Knixkik wrote:We need one PG before we need 2. This is the plan for now, obviously not the final result.

Plan 9 From Outer Space

Knixkik - What "plan", specifically, are you referring to?


Plan is to upgrade the backcourt with Davis and possibly JR Smith. After that, we can determine how that effects results.

aren't teams suppose to spend at least 50 mill? or + this year?
It would be interesting to see if the Lakers will target Chandler or a couple of guys from CBA back or Europe with their exemption for Odom.

JCrusher
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1/31/2012  6:55 PM
y2zipper wrote:
JCrusher wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
misterearl wrote:loweyecue - the 2014 was sincere.

1. Take an unflinching look at the Knicks roster in the context of Miami, Chicago and Philly.

2. Avoid any wet fantasy of "dreck for talent" imaginary solutions

3. Assess at the Knicks drafting position over the next two years and, with a straight face, anticipate all of those picks becoming instant rotation players.

You don't need to convince me. I don't think we really have any assets outside of the big 3. Landry, Jorts and Shump are rotation players we need to keep. No one will give us a bag of chips for TD. China players may be our best prospects and then more amnesties next off season.

They should look at seriously asking Stat/Melo to reconfigure their contracts to free some cap.

I agree. I mean melo especially since the reasons he wouldn't wait until FA was because he wanted as much money as possible

Why are people mad at Melo for trying to get a max contract? He wasn't going to free agency period.

I think the Knicks are two or three contributors and probably a new coach away from being a contender. Ideally one of those contributors (a starting point guard, really) comes from the mid-level in the offseason and the other comes for either the minimum or from the draft.

Well the big three on the heat took less to try to build a team. With melo getting his money with a trade that gutted us no less really made it hard for us to get any valuable depth. Like I said before you can't just win with two "offensive" stars and no other talent especially when the two stars take up most of the cap space. Also please dont say we are close to being a finals contender if we get rid of d'antoni and even with adecent pg. The only possible way is steve nash and i just dont see him taking the MLE when he will get better offers from teams that are better than us
We need a PG yes... But we also just need better players

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