The defense is improving.

The offense will get better with Baron back. And also with Melo being healthy. And Amar'e not in foul trouble.

It was one game. A bad game. Does it sting more because Barkley and Reggie rubbed it in our faces? Who cares? You know what those guys have in common with you and me? They never won rings.

Bonn1997 wrote:The defense is good. The offense sucks and is dependent on an old, injured PG to save the season. Otherwise, they look like a .500 to .550.

Sad but true.

Baron can turn out well or he can be a flat dud. My cash is on somewhere in the middle. I think Baron will show some flashes of his old ways, but over the length he will be mediocre. We'll see.

It's strange to imagine a team with Amar'e and Melo having trouble with offense.

blkexec wrote:

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:The defense is good. The offense sucks and is dependent on an old, injured PG to save the season. Otherwise, they look like a .500 to .550.

Sad but true.

Baron can turn out well or he can be a flat dud. My cash is on somewhere in the middle. I think Baron will show some flashes of his old ways, but over the length he will be mediocre. We'll see.

It's strange to imagine a team with Amar'e and Melo having trouble with offense.

It's not strange to me....They don't compliment each other. They need a facilitator, or a coach with the right system to make them co-exist. Otherwise, with Dantoni's system (run fast and shoot first) they will never be insinct with each other, especially with a rookie running the point......Dantoni is like a substitute teacher....Once you know he's the teacher for today, you know you can do whatever you want to do in that classroom......Thats why Shump to put up 20 shots and only score 12. Thats why the team can put up 35 three pt attempts, and not feel like they did anything wrong.

There's too much freedom for a team that needs too much structure. But thats what you get with . So it's not his fault, it's the people that put these guys in these positions. It's the owners and GM's that put this team together. Everybody else is just doing what they have been getting paid for their entire career. Unfortunately for STAT and Chandler, they need a real good PG and a structured coach that believes in accountability, for them to be sucessfull. Otherwise, right now, everybody is getting exposed....even Melo.

I love D'Antoni and believe he can win a championship with his system, but this is true, there is a bad match here.

If you hire Mike, you get him a point guard.

This can turn ugly before it gets better.

crzymdups wrote:http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/defensiveEff/order/false

The defense is improving.

The offense will get better with Baron back. And also with Melo being healthy. And Amar'e not in foul trouble.

It was one game. A bad game. Does it sting more because Barkley and Reggie rubbed it in our faces? Who cares? You know what those guys have in common with you and me? They never won rings.

Careful now you are NOT being the typical poster which simply uses emotion without any facts! You
are absolutely correct and the non-believers will be eating crow by the end of the year.

blkexec wrote:

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:The defense is good. The offense sucks and is dependent on an old, injured PG to save the season. Otherwise, they look like a .500 to .550.

Sad but true.

Baron can turn out well or he can be a flat dud. My cash is on somewhere in the middle. I think Baron will show some flashes of his old ways, but over the length he will be mediocre. We'll see.

It's strange to imagine a team with Amar'e and Melo having trouble with offense.

It's not strange to me....They don't compliment each other. They need a facilitator, or a coach with the right system to make them co-exist. Otherwise, with Dantoni's system (run fast and shoot first) they will never be insinct with each other, especially with a rookie running the point......Dantoni is like that substitute teacher....Once you know he's the teacher for today, you know you can do whatever you want to do in that classroom......Thats why Shump to put up 20 shots and only score 12. Thats why the team can put up 35 three pt attempts, and not feel like they did anything wrong.

There's too much freedom for a team that needs too much structure. But thats what you get with . So it's not his fault, it's the people that put these guys in these positions. It's the owners and GM's that put this team together. Everybody else is just doing what they have been getting paid for their entire career. Unfortunately for STAT and Chandler, they need a real good PG and a structured coach that believes in accountability, for them to be sucessfull. Otherwise, right now, everybody is getting exposed....even Melo.

In all fairness, after our starting 4-5, we dont have any players aside from Jorts that are producing on a nightly basis.
For all the people that felt Melo was a must do, this is what happens when we have no depth, no draft picks, and our big 3 can't produce.
Walsh's plan was to add an ALL STAR to our roster, not trade everyone for 1 player.
We rebuilded all the way Walsh wanted to until Dolan stepped in and made that stupid deal.
For all you people that supported the deal, don't complain, because this is what you asked for and supported.

It isn't about how good Melo is, it still makes no sense, to give up what we did for him.
It was not a must do at all. We would be in the hunt for Cp3, Deron, Dwight Howard, and many trade offers with all the assets we had.
We have the assets and cap room to look for the best deal for us. With those assets, draft picks, and cap room we have plenty of flexibility to go many directions.
With all those assets, plenty of teams will be calling us looking to acquire some of talents, where the league would be bidding for our talents.
If Dolan just let him finish what he started, we would have been contenders for the decade.
Not 1 player from injury or w/e would have hurt us dramatically, we would be 12 deep.
We still would have have draft picks including 2 GS 2nd round draft picks, one being this year in a "good" draft.

We are already lucky that the amnesty put us steps ahead to allow us to have a solid starting 5.
With the good draft for us in the summer, it already saved us at least 1 year or rebuilding.
Honestly, the worse case scenario was us NOT PICKING being contenders and not even making a push for playoffs if the above didn't fall through.
With JJ and Turiaf being our starting center n back up PF/C, NO PG that can penetrate, and 1 shooter in Billups, we might not even be better than
Atlanta and can fall all the way down to 8th seed. If Toronto, Cleveland, of even Wizards have talent and makes push, they can climb above us.

Miami
Bulls
Atlanta
Orlando
Chicago
Pacers
Bucks

Toronto
Cleveland
Bobcats
Detroit

We are lucky the amnesty boosted us and improved us with Tyson Chandler and Baron Davis.
We are lucky Walsh drafted Iman and Jorts.
We are lucky we don't have to see Jared Jeffries "defensive stopper" as he is not KG or Tyson Chandler's caliber.
Things could be a lot worse, if it wasn't for the luck of the amnesty.
We are in a work in process and waiting to finish the pieces of the puzzle this summer while have a chance to compete this year IF all goes well with our 5-6 deep roster...

RonRon wrote:
I believe the pre Melo Knicks, and adding Tyson Chandler, gives us a overall better team.

The record doesn't bear that out, at 28-26.

And there's absolutely no proof Tyson would have come here without Melo being here. Or Baron for that matter. Tyson and Baron are good good friends. You think they didn't talk about the possibility of going to NY together.

crzymdups wrote:

RonRon wrote:
I believe the pre Melo Knicks, and adding Tyson Chandler, gives us a overall better team.

The record doesn't bear that out, at 28-26.

And there's absolutely no proof Tyson would have come here without Melo being here. Or Baron for that matter. Tyson and Baron are good good friends. You think they didn't talk about the possibility of going to NY together.

Seriously, why so we have 2 threads running simultaneously where posters are jumping in and still clamouring for the 28-26 team of last year? This thread is supposed to be discussing defensive exploits of this years team?! The grass is always greener....

Uptown wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

RonRon wrote:
I believe the pre Melo Knicks, and adding Tyson Chandler, gives us a overall better team.

The record doesn't bear that out, at 28-26.

And there's absolutely no proof Tyson would have come here without Melo being here. Or Baron for that matter. Tyson and Baron are good good friends. You think they didn't talk about the possibility of going to NY together.

Seriously, why so we have 2 threads running simultaneously where posters are jumping in and still clamouring for the 28-26 team of last year? This thread is supposed to be discussing defensive exploits of this years team?! The grass is always greener....

because we can't improve with 3 players eating all our cap room. We have the 2.5m exemption to use and thats it, till next year...
I suggested the KG/Ray Allen trade, I don't believe in this "big 3", and everyone was saying I was retarded.
How else can add talent to the roster without subtracting 1 of the big 3?
Today, everyone is saying the Knicks suck and what we can do?
What is the rest going to say tomorrow and the day after? We are going to complete the rest of the year with these pointless threads?

RonRon wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

RonRon wrote:
I believe the pre Melo Knicks, and adding Tyson Chandler, gives us a overall better team.

The record doesn't bear that out, at 28-26.

And there's absolutely no proof Tyson would have come here without Melo being here. Or Baron for that matter. Tyson and Baron are good good friends. You think they didn't talk about the possibility of going to NY together.

he wanted to go the the team that had the best chances of winning, where he can show the league how his defensive culture affects the game, and pay him in the same area.
Baron Davis might now want to come here if Felton is here, however, if he was willing to go to Golden State, its pretty apparent he would rather go to New York with what we had.

We had a way easier schedule than our first half, with the trade rumors affecting the play of our players. Isn't it apparent that we have been playing with no system, identity, and relying on ISO plays? How can you even debate this? For everyone that supported the trade, don't complain about how we suck, cause thats where we lossed our depth and talent...

Felton
Gallo
Wilson Chandler
Mosgov
Randolph
1 New York 1st rounder
1 future swap 1st rounder
2 GS picks

is greater than

Melo
Balkman

go watch Denver and see the difference their team has had after the trade as well. Look at their record prior to the Melo trade and after.

Ty Lawson
Affalo
Nene
Birdman
Faried

vs

Iman
Fields
Stat
Randolph
TD
Jorts

I would say our team vs Denvers squad is about even....

RonRon wrote:

Uptown wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

RonRon wrote:
I believe the pre Melo Knicks, and adding Tyson Chandler, gives us a overall better team.

The record doesn't bear that out, at 28-26.

And there's absolutely no proof Tyson would have come here without Melo being here. Or Baron for that matter. Tyson and Baron are good good friends. You think they didn't talk about the possibility of going to NY together.

Seriously, why so we have 2 threads running simultaneously where posters are jumping in and still clamouring for the 28-26 team of last year? This thread is supposed to be discussing defensive exploits of this years team?! The grass is always greener....

because we can't improve with 3 players eating all our cap room. We have the 2.5m exemption to use and thats it, till next year...
I suggested the KG/Ray Allen trade, I don't believe in this "big 3", and everyone was saying I was retarded.
How else can add talent to the roster without subtracting 1 of the big 3?
Today, everyone is saying the Knicks suck and what we can do?
What is the rest going to say tomorrow and the day after? We are going to complete the rest of the year with these pointless threads?

It takes time to build a contender. The Melo trade was by no means the last piece to the puzzle, but it was the biggest piece. The piece we had been chasing for over 10 years. Now that he's in place along with Stat and Chandler, we have a core that we can build around. The pieces that we traded away are much easier to secure than a Melo type of talent.

We signed Ray to a reasonable 2 yr deal, found Moz on the scrp heap, and Chandler was a late first rounder. Even guys like Trevor Ariza who we traded away and became a valuable piece to the Lakers Championship run was picked in the 2nd round. The problem with most our fans is we want everything right away. Melo, Stat and Chandler are still in their 20's. There's time. Just be patient. This team has way more potential than the team we broke up to bring Melo aboard....