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Not reaching Eastern Conference Finals this year = D'Antoni fail
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nychamp
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12/21/2011  1:45 PM
No more plausible excuses for

Assuming that 1) Baron Davis returns within a month or two and is at least reasonably effective. And assuming 2) that Amar'e or Melo don't go down with season-ending injury.

The pieces are there, they should work together. The team could very well go into the post season as a top three seed, and almost certainly will be top 5 or 6. On paper this team has great mix and balance. The team has experience and youth, players with complementary toolsets.

When the playoffs come, even if the Knicks have had a monster regular season, they will be tested. D'Antoni will be tested, faced with strategic decisions to make in order to win or lose crucial games. Adjustments will be necessary and the chess match will be in full effect. Injuries or no injuries, D'Antoni was abused by Doc Rivers last post season, not even getting a victory. There will come a time this year when we see whether D'Antoni knows what he is doing or not. I hope he does. GO KNICKS!!!!
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SupremeCommander
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12/21/2011  1:46 PM
I have a feeling the organization agrees with you, considering that he didn't get an extension
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MarburyAnd1Crossover
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12/21/2011  1:49 PM
D'Antoni certainly knows what he's doing, this much has been proven not only in his time with Phoenix but also with the Knicks. The guy has dealt with more roster turnover and uncertainty in the last three years than many coaches do in a lifetime, and he managed it with aplomb, even finishing with a winning record last season. Constant roster upheaval and trade rumor drama would force weaker men to throw in the towel, but MDA kept leading, he kept going, and he kept it all together.

I'm looking for a winning season and the second round, anything more is a bonus, anything less is unlikely.

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fishmike
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12/21/2011  1:53 PM
what if we sweep the Hawks in a 4/5 first round matchup than lose to the Bulls in 7 games in the 2nd round. Fail?

Im a Giant fan also and as far as MDA goes I have the same philosophy. The only reason I want coaches gone is if a) they have lost their team or b) there is a clear upgrade. People that want Coughlin gone... thats fine, whos the replacement? Same with MDA. Looking forward to see how Mark Jackson does this year. Many here wanted him

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Silverfuel
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12/21/2011  2:00 PM
fishmike wrote:what if we sweep the Hawks in a 4/5 first round matchup than lose to the Bulls in 7 games in the 2nd round. Fail?

Im a Giant fan also and as far as MDA goes I have the same philosophy. The only reason I want coaches gone is if a) they have lost their team or b) there is a clear upgrade. People that want Coughlin gone... thats fine, whos the replacement? Same with MDA. Looking forward to see how Mark Jackson does this year. Many here wanted him


good post
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crzymdups
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12/21/2011  2:02 PM
I think failing to reach the second round is a fail.

Reaching the ECF basically means beating Miami or Chicago in the second round, no matter what seed they are. Miami I actually think is a better matchup for the Knicks than Chicago as, at this time.

I think getting to the ECF would be an incredible season.

But if they lose in the first round, it'd be disappointing, seemingly.

Let's see how the season pans out first.

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crzymdups
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12/21/2011  2:02 PM
Silverfuel wrote:
fishmike wrote:what if we sweep the Hawks in a 4/5 first round matchup than lose to the Bulls in 7 games in the 2nd round. Fail?

Im a Giant fan also and as far as MDA goes I have the same philosophy. The only reason I want coaches gone is if a) they have lost their team or b) there is a clear upgrade. People that want Coughlin gone... thats fine, whos the replacement? Same with MDA. Looking forward to see how Mark Jackson does this year. Many here wanted him


good post

+1

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MaTT4281
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12/21/2011  2:04 PM
fishmike wrote:what if we sweep the Hawks in a 4/5 first round matchup than lose to the Bulls in 7 games in the 2nd round. Fail?

Im a Giant fan also and as far as MDA goes I have the same philosophy. The only reason I want coaches gone is if a) they have lost their team or b) there is a clear upgrade. People that want Coughlin gone... thats fine, whos the replacement? Same with MDA. Looking forward to see how Mark Jackson does this year. Many here wanted him

+1

I actually like MDA and look forward to seeing what he will do with a roster without any major changes. The only guy I'm willing to replace him with at this point is Phil Jackson...which I partially expect to happen next season.
VCoug
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12/21/2011  2:09 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/21/2011  2:09 PM
fishmike wrote:what if we sweep the Hawks in a 4/5 first round matchup than lose to the Bulls in 7 games in the 2nd round. Fail?

Im a Giant fan also and as far as MDA goes I have the same philosophy. The only reason I want coaches gone is if a) they have lost their team or b) there is a clear upgrade. People that want Coughlin gone... thats fine, whos the replacement? Same with MDA. Looking forward to see how Mark Jackson does this year. Many here wanted him

I agree with you for the most part about MDA, but, unless he won a championship, I wouldn't object to replacing him with Phil Jackson. As for the Giants, I've never been a Coughlin fan, even after we won the Superbowl I only tolerated him. At this point, unless there's another miracle and they make the playoffs and actually win a post-season game, I want him gone. Last year I would've hired John Fox or Jim Harbaugh. This year, everyone seems to like the offensive coordinator for the Saints, but if St Louis fires Spagnuolo I'd take him back in a heartbeat.

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nychamp
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12/21/2011  2:21 PM
fishmike wrote:what if we sweep the Hawks in a 4/5 first round matchup than lose to the Bulls in 7 games in the 2nd round. Fail?

Short answer: Most likely.

Obviously there are many ways a 7-game series can play out, so it's hard to say. If it's just a knock-down drag-out where both teams play their hearts out, smart and passionate basketball, and the Knicks just come up a bucket or two short, then no, not a coaching fail. Think Ewing and Oakley vs. the Bulls or Pacers.

But if the Knicks lose a 7-gamer by not being able to correct clear strategic weaknesses and not properly adjusting to how the other team is exploiting them, then yes, coaching fail. This has been a long-standing Knicks flaw during the D'Antoni years. Even taking into account their lesser talent, the Knicks have underachieved during the D'Antoni years, IMO.

Will D'Antoni be able to get Melo to blossom as the force he can be? With Baron Davis, D'Antoni has a near ideal PG for his system. Let's make it happen. I will be happy to kiss his ass after he shows that he knows what to do with these players.

And sorry, Phoenix's past regular season record does not prove it for me. They were always a predictable, easy out in the post season. No defense, you see.
martin
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12/21/2011  2:27 PM
nychamp wrote:
fishmike wrote:what if we sweep the Hawks in a 4/5 first round matchup than lose to the Bulls in 7 games in the 2nd round. Fail?

Short answer: Most likely.

Obviously there are many ways a 7-game series can play out, so it's hard to say. If it's just a knock-down drag-out where both teams play their hearts out, smart and passionate basketball, and the Knicks just come up a bucket or two short, then no, not a coaching fail. Think Ewing and Oakley vs. the Bulls or Pacers.

But if the Knicks lose a 7-gamer by not being able to correct clear strategic weaknesses and not properly adjusting to how the other team is exploiting them, then yes, coaching fail. This has been a long-standing Knicks flaw during the D'Antoni years. Even taking into account their lesser talent, the Knicks have underachieved during the D'Antoni years, IMO.

Will D'Antoni be able to get Melo to blossom as the force he can be? With Baron Davis, D'Antoni has a near ideal PG for his system. Let's make it happen. I will be happy to kiss his ass after he shows that he knows what to do with these players.

And sorry, Phoenix's past regular season record does not prove it for me. They were always a predictable, easy out in the post season. No defense, you see.

no they weren't.

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Bippity10
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12/21/2011  2:31 PM
fishmike wrote:what if we sweep the Hawks in a 4/5 first round matchup than lose to the Bulls in 7 games in the 2nd round. Fail?

Im a Giant fan also and as far as MDA goes I have the same philosophy. The only reason I want coaches gone is if a) they have lost their team or b) there is a clear upgrade. People that want Coughlin gone... thats fine, whos the replacement? Same with MDA. Looking forward to see how Mark Jackson does this year. Many here wanted him

Good post. I could not agree more. New York fans always want to fire the coach.

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nychamp
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12/21/2011  2:33 PM
martin wrote:
nychamp wrote:
fishmike wrote:what if we sweep the Hawks in a 4/5 first round matchup than lose to the Bulls in 7 games in the 2nd round. Fail?

Short answer: Most likely.

Obviously there are many ways a 7-game series can play out, so it's hard to say. If it's just a knock-down drag-out where both teams play their hearts out, smart and passionate basketball, and the Knicks just come up a bucket or two short, then no, not a coaching fail. Think Ewing and Oakley vs. the Bulls or Pacers.

But if the Knicks lose a 7-gamer by not being able to correct clear strategic weaknesses and not properly adjusting to how the other team is exploiting them, then yes, coaching fail. This has been a long-standing Knicks flaw during the D'Antoni years. Even taking into account their lesser talent, the Knicks have underachieved during the D'Antoni years, IMO.

Will D'Antoni be able to get Melo to blossom as the force he can be? With Baron Davis, D'Antoni has a near ideal PG for his system. Let's make it happen. I will be happy to kiss his ass after he shows that he knows what to do with these players.

And sorry, Phoenix's past regular season record does not prove it for me. They were always a predictable, easy out in the post season. No defense, you see.

no they weren't.

Maybe not easy, but predictable for sure.
nixluva
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12/21/2011  2:37 PM
Heat and Bulls have more experience playing together so that gives them an edge. If that 2nd rd. series goes 7 games then i'd say they shouldn't fire MDA. ECF's is still a reality tho but if they lose, it all depends on how the team actually plays in that 2nd rd. series. They can't be outplayed badly.
Bippity10
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12/21/2011  2:51 PM
nychamp wrote:
martin wrote:
nychamp wrote:
fishmike wrote:what if we sweep the Hawks in a 4/5 first round matchup than lose to the Bulls in 7 games in the 2nd round. Fail?

Short answer: Most likely.

Obviously there are many ways a 7-game series can play out, so it's hard to say. If it's just a knock-down drag-out where both teams play their hearts out, smart and passionate basketball, and the Knicks just come up a bucket or two short, then no, not a coaching fail. Think Ewing and Oakley vs. the Bulls or Pacers.

But if the Knicks lose a 7-gamer by not being able to correct clear strategic weaknesses and not properly adjusting to how the other team is exploiting them, then yes, coaching fail. This has been a long-standing Knicks flaw during the D'Antoni years. Even taking into account their lesser talent, the Knicks have underachieved during the D'Antoni years, IMO.

Will D'Antoni be able to get Melo to blossom as the force he can be? With Baron Davis, D'Antoni has a near ideal PG for his system. Let's make it happen. I will be happy to kiss his ass after he shows that he knows what to do with these players.

And sorry, Phoenix's past regular season record does not prove it for me. They were always a predictable, easy out in the post season. No defense, you see.

no they weren't.

Maybe not easy, but predictable for sure.

I hate when people just make shiot up.

In 04-05 They made it to the conference finals where they lost to the eventual champion. They also lost Joe Johnson for the first two games of that series

in 05-06 They made it to the conference finals despite being without one of their superstars(Amare). In round 2 they came back from a 3-1 deficit to win the series. They then lost in the conference finals in 6 games

06-07 They lost in 6 games in the second round to the eventual NBA champ

07-08 they lost in the first round after Steve Kerr decided he was taking the team in a new direction with the highly successful new defensive strategy.

Now as for them being predictable. What are you basing that on? Secondly, during the 90's the Knicks were one of the most predictable teams in the league. They changed nothing. They were going to beat you up on D and on Offense dump the ball in to Patrick. So what are we basing our assessment of predictability on. And what changes should Dantoni have made?

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martin
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12/21/2011  2:54 PM
Phil Jackson is predictable. He ran the triangle for the last 15 years. So what, right?
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nychamp
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12/21/2011  3:05 PM
Bippity10 wrote:
nychamp wrote:
martin wrote:
nychamp wrote:
fishmike wrote:what if we sweep the Hawks in a 4/5 first round matchup than lose to the Bulls in 7 games in the 2nd round. Fail?

Short answer: Most likely.

Obviously there are many ways a 7-game series can play out, so it's hard to say. If it's just a knock-down drag-out where both teams play their hearts out, smart and passionate basketball, and the Knicks just come up a bucket or two short, then no, not a coaching fail. Think Ewing and Oakley vs. the Bulls or Pacers.

But if the Knicks lose a 7-gamer by not being able to correct clear strategic weaknesses and not properly adjusting to how the other team is exploiting them, then yes, coaching fail. This has been a long-standing Knicks flaw during the D'Antoni years. Even taking into account their lesser talent, the Knicks have underachieved during the D'Antoni years, IMO.

Will D'Antoni be able to get Melo to blossom as the force he can be? With Baron Davis, D'Antoni has a near ideal PG for his system. Let's make it happen. I will be happy to kiss his ass after he shows that he knows what to do with these players.

And sorry, Phoenix's past regular season record does not prove it for me. They were always a predictable, easy out in the post season. No defense, you see.

no they weren't.

Maybe not easy, but predictable for sure.

I hate when people just make shiot up.

...

Now as for them being predictable. What are you basing that on? Secondly, during the 90's the Knicks were one of the most predictable teams in the league. They changed nothing. They were going to beat you up on D and on Offense dump the ball in to Patrick. So what are we basing our assessment of predictability on. And what changes should Dantoni have made?

This is based on my opinion/observation. The Suns were predictably not going to win because they could not stop anyone when it counted. When a team cannot effectively defend in crucial situations they predictably won't win it all. At no time did I ever believe that they could win it all. Therefore, to me, it was predictable that they would not be champions. Again, I speak of my opinion.

I don't assert that being predictable is bad, as you appear to have erroneously inferred. I was just saying that the Suns not winning was foreseeable/predictable.
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12/21/2011  3:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/21/2011  3:08 PM
There are some fans that just flat out don't like D'antoni almost in the same fashion that people hate Isiah Thomas.
I don't agree with that.
D'antoni put his reputation on the line to come to our team of misfits to build something.
He has held on despite some really crappy teams and when he was starting to do well we traded our two best players essentially scrapping the whole season.
He has been with us through thick & thin and now that we finally have the promised land in sights people want to dump him?
Perhaps I am too old school, but there is something to having loyalty to a coach that has been nothing but in return.
He could have walked out on us a while back.

When we got him he chose us over Chicago despite the whole world wanting him there instead of here.
He chose us and we chose him... Now let's see what he really brings to the table now that we have a real team.

I for one am totally against sending D'antoni packing to just simply turn around and kiss Phil Jackson's rings and give him a championship that took a lot of patience from D'antoni to help put together.
Bippity10
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12/21/2011  3:25 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/21/2011  3:26 PM
nychamp wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:
nychamp wrote:
martin wrote:
nychamp wrote:
fishmike wrote:what if we sweep the Hawks in a 4/5 first round matchup than lose to the Bulls in 7 games in the 2nd round. Fail?

Short answer: Most likely.

Obviously there are many ways a 7-game series can play out, so it's hard to say. If it's just a knock-down drag-out where both teams play their hearts out, smart and passionate basketball, and the Knicks just come up a bucket or two short, then no, not a coaching fail. Think Ewing and Oakley vs. the Bulls or Pacers.

But if the Knicks lose a 7-gamer by not being able to correct clear strategic weaknesses and not properly adjusting to how the other team is exploiting them, then yes, coaching fail. This has been a long-standing Knicks flaw during the D'Antoni years. Even taking into account their lesser talent, the Knicks have underachieved during the D'Antoni years, IMO.

Will D'Antoni be able to get Melo to blossom as the force he can be? With Baron Davis, D'Antoni has a near ideal PG for his system. Let's make it happen. I will be happy to kiss his ass after he shows that he knows what to do with these players.

And sorry, Phoenix's past regular season record does not prove it for me. They were always a predictable, easy out in the post season. No defense, you see.

no they weren't.

Maybe not easy, but predictable for sure.

I hate when people just make shiot up.

...

Now as for them being predictable. What are you basing that on? Secondly, during the 90's the Knicks were one of the most predictable teams in the league. They changed nothing. They were going to beat you up on D and on Offense dump the ball in to Patrick. So what are we basing our assessment of predictability on. And what changes should Dantoni have made?

This is based on my opinion/observation. The Suns were predictably not going to win because they could not stop anyone when it counted. When a team cannot effectively defend in crucial situations they predictably won't win it all. At no time did I ever believe that they could win it all. Therefore, to me, it was predictable that they would not be champions. Again, I speak of my opinion.

I don't assert that being predictable is bad, as you appear to have erroneously inferred. I was just saying that the Suns not winning was foreseeable/predictable.

What you said was "they were always a predictable, easy out in the post season". Not sure how I was supposed to read that statement and conclude that you meant that they were predictably not going to win a championship. See not being able to win a championship is a very different concept from being an easy out in the playoffs. So you can see where my erroneous inferrence came from. Erroenous inferences are predictable when you do not express your point properly.

anyway, now that you have reworded your awful initial thought about them being an "easy out" in the playoffs I actually do agree with you. I thought they would lose as well. I thought they had a chance the year of the bench clearer but I never thought they were a favorite because of their d

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Bippity10
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12/21/2011  3:29 PM
Put the records aside. Was there ever a year where the Suns were the absolute favorite in the playoffs and then choked when it mattered?
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